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Thread: Planeswalker Stax

  1. #1
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    Planeswalker Stax


    thanks yawg07!

    KAAAAARRRRRN




    lemme start up a primer for this deck:

    I guess I'll do an explanation of each card if it requires some explaining, and then some of the matchups:

    4 Chalice of the Void

    This card is the bread and butter of the deck. Chalice for 1 stops so many cards. If you are on the bandwagon with mental misstep, then that should explain everything that this card can do.

    4 Trinisphere
    These cards are second only to the chalices. You want them on turn 1 and 2, which makes sense. It has good synergy with smokestack, tabernacle, and wasteland. It is one of the ways of locking opponents out.

    4 Crucible of Worlds
    I like to refer to this card as howling mine for me only. With fetches it's like drawing a land out of your deck each turn. Wasteland synergy is very powerful, and can lead to blowout games. Getting back your maze of iths, tabernacles, and academy ruins is also extremely useful.

    3 Smokestack
    This card is King. It can allow you to really push control to do something with themselves. Sacrificing permanents is easy with crucible out, and the planeswalkers usually ensure you can play out your multiples of dead cards. Most decks if not handled with in 2 turns, end up losing to the sacrificing.

    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    If decks can't kill the bridge, it's a pretty hard lock. If you draw multiples, it is also usually a lock. Decks like BUG and some of the show and tell decks have no out to it preboard. Dredge usually has 1 out being a terrastodon if 2 bridges are in play. Merfolk has no outs. Goblins maindeck has siege gang as an out, affinity has ravager, so they can still get there, natural order is difficult to beat and I feel like it's the only card that can reasonably stop progenitus. They also have lots of cards to kill bridges, but maybe drawing multiples can pay off.

    1 The Abyss
    This card when played early, completely destroyed decks that rely on few creatures to win. I don't know how else to explain it. Just try it, and see for yourself.

    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    You will need some kind of mass removal cards, and the best options are this powder keg, and ratchet bomb. This can help stop aggro rush, as well as stop nuisance cards like oblivion rings and aether vials. I personally like the keg as it's good vs affinity, can kill man lands, and teeg can't prevent me from playing it.

    //planeswalkers 8 cards

    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    Oh Jace. This card is very self explanatory, however, the brutal nature of this card in this deck is really not seen until experienced. If a turn 1 trinisphere comes down, followed by a turn 2 jace, there is usually little that can be done by the opponent. He helps bounce creatures (vs non vials), and can help the lock by keeping lands on the bottom of their deck. He also has that useful win condition, as well as being able to bounce problematic cards like emrakul.

    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    This card is very exciting in this deck.
    His +1 is extremely useful. He can find all of your key cards, just refer back to each of the key artifact cards for their importance.
    His -1 gives you a win condition, and it serves as a purpose of making blockers. There is synergy with the artifact creatures and the abyss, but the 5/5's do not typically work very well with ensnaring bridge...however you can get your hand back to 5 cards pretty easily.
    His -4 is a win con, as well as just a good life gain. Not really necessary for explanation.



    //mana sources (32 lands total)

    4 Mox Diamond
    I call this a mox diamond deck. This card allows for extremely nutty draws, and is extremely synergistic with crucible of worlds, and gets rid of your dead lands in certain matchups.

    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest

    3 Fetches, very useful - nothing special here.

    2 Island
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Creeping Tar Pit

    Gotta get some colored mana sources besides the moxes. The 2 basics is in there to avoid getting crushed by wastelands, the undergrounds and tar pits are there to help cast the black cards and the tar pit acts as a 1 of that can get there and kill opposing jaces mostly. The Urborgs are really important as they can "turn on" your maze of iths, tabernacles, and provide your deck with a significant increase in mana some games.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors

    These cards are also the reason the deck is playable. These cards allow for the turn 1 chalice, trinisphere, crucible, ensnaring bridge. The turn 2 jace, smokestack, tezzeret, abyss. Just so good.

    1 Academy Ruins

    This card is pretty stock and will just let you get back cards that you might need. It probably serves more of a purpose post board, as you bring in more artifacts that have more applications, however, getting back a crucible, or a smokestack can be pretty devastating.

    4 Wasteland

    Wastelands in stax lists are strictly not optional. I have seem some lists with 3, but I don't recommend it. The mana bases that people are running these days (excluding mostly just mono blue merfolk, but they still have mutavaults) are extremely greedy, and people need to be punished.

    //keep me alive lands

    4 Maze of Ith
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    Well if you look at the list, there aren't really many ways to interact with creatures. This suite of cards allows you to do just that. Many decks have few win conditions, and maze of ith will buy you enough turns until you can take control. Tabernacle is a blowout to many decks, and due to the many high synergies with wasteland and trinisphere, it can just end games. (To be noted, sometimes I will animate their artifacts into 5/5's if I have tabernacle out so they lose them. This is generally very rarely a good idea, but it can get there when an ensnaring bridge or multiple maze of iths are out)

    Matchups:

    Merfolk:
    I really am not comfortable with this matchup. Game 1 you want to land a trinisphere, or a chalice at 1 on the play. Vial is a problem for this deck. That being said they don't have any out to ensnaring bridge, so make sure slam this card down quickly and ride it to victory. Tabernacle and maze of ith are very strong here. Abyss is also great, and smokestack can help clear the board if you have time. Coral helm commander is the real nuisance card here for you.

    Game 2: you get to bring in a few cards, preferably llawans, powder kegs, engineered explosives, and a 4th ensnaring bridge. don't be fooled and board in engineered plagues. they seem useful, but unless if you get a nut draw you are going to just make them all 2/2's instead of 3/3s and sometimes that lets them get under the bridge. They will probably bring in energy flux, so just be ready for that with your artifact removal suite, and karn liberated might be able to remove it. dunno if you board him out. need to test more

    On the draw it can be tough, still needs more testing to decide on sb techniques.

    BUG:
    They usually rely on few creatures, counterspells, and discard. Maelstrom pulse is sometimes there, and that can be a problem. Other than that this deck fuctions very well vs that one, and cards like ensnaring bridge and maze of ith make things extremely difficult for them. The abyss can just end games by itself. They function on few lands, so smokestack is another good win condition. Jace unsummon is also powerful vs tombstalker.

    Burn:
    Steer clear of this matchup, nearly impossible to win. Any suggestions? I've thought of running chill in the sb, but other than that, I don't even know.

    Zoo:
    Chalice for 1, tabernacle, ensnaring bridge, and your artifacts that can blow up all 1cc. Watch out for price of progress. I like to keep my wastelands open so I can blow up my own stuff in response.

    Storm:
    Chalice and trinisphere preboard. Tabernacle can stop empty the warrens, but if you don't land a chalice or trinisphere you are probably going to lose. Wastelands can sabotage their slower draws. I like to chalice for 0 vs the red version of storm, as they are more dependant on lion's eye diamond, lotus petals, and moxes. The 1cc gives them some more outs, but they can still just go off without the 1cc. After sb you get null rod if you want and it makes the matchup even more favorable.

    Charbelcher:
    See storm matchup.

    High Tide:
    This matchup you want to get down a chalice for 1. After that you need a smokestack ASAP. They will try to get a hurkly's recall or a rebuild and then go off. This matchup isn't generally too favorable, but you do what you have to do. Hopefully you can resolve a trinisphere and lock them out quickly, as the wastelands have no effect vs them. Null rod is okay vs the candelabra.

    Goblins:
    This matchup can be frustrating, as you will need 1 or 0 cards in your hand to make the bridges work. I think bridges are the key card here, as they have lots of 1's 2's and 3's so chalice keg/ee aren't particularly amazing. Tabernacle and maze of ith are strong here. Games 2 and 3 you have access to engineered plague and artifact removal stuff. They might bring in krosan grip, but you just have so many things they have to deal with.
    That being said if they nut draw you, you can still lose. Mono red versions with blood moon could also be problematic.


    My recent list:

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    3 Smokestack
    1 The Abyss
    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Powder Keg

    4 Maze of Ith
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Wasteland
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    3 Blue Fetches
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Academy Ruins
    2 Island

    SB:

    3 Null Rod
    2 Llawan
    3 Engineered Plague
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Powder Keg
    2 Perish


    Been a long time since this has been updated. There has been a fair amount of support from a lot of players with this deck. This one is one of the later ones posted in the threads. The sb has been heavily influenced by the French players' "bridgewalkers" deck. (transmute artifact package).


    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Smokestack
    3 Trinisphere
    2 The Abyss
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    3 Tangle Wire
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Dimir Signet
    4 Wasteland
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Maze of Ith
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Swamp
    2 Island
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 1 Cursed Totem
    SB: 1 Damping Matrix
    SB: 1 Trinisphere
    SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 2 Transmute Artifact
    SB: 1 Perish
    SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void






    Tournament Reports

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post548172

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post537502

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post532294

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post528674

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post540033


    Pretty sure this was the list:

    //Stax (19)

    4 Trinisphere
    2 The Abyss
    3 Smokestack
    2 Tangle Wire
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Crucible of Worlds

    //Planeswalkers (8)

    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

    //Mana Sources (5)

    4 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Opal

    //Lands (28)

    2 Seat of the Synod
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    2 Island
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Maze of Ith
    1 Academy Ruins
    4 Wasteland
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 City of Traitors
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Underground Sea

    //Sideboard

    1 Tangle Wire
    4 Engineered Plague
    1 Karn, Silver Golem
    2 Cursed Totem
    2 Engineered Explosives
    4 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Smokestack

    wondering if this deck would have any value over the other UB chalice decks that have come out since then. in addition many sets have come out since circa 2012.

    anyone still playing this?
    Last edited by mistercakes; 11-25-2015 at 12:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    For any Stax deck, I highly recommend 1 or 2 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Rekai. Also, why only 2 smokestacks? I understand with tutors, but I'd say 3.
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

  3. #3

    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    God's Eye, Gate to Rekai is terrible. Trying to support two colors on a Stax manabase is hard enough as it is without including more colorless sources.

    Propaganda probably doesn't work in this deck because it doesn't protect your Planeswalkers.

    EDIT: Also, you really probably should be running four Cities and Tombs. Your Chalices and Trinispheres get progressively worse the less double lands you play.

    EDIT2: If you can make the mana work, The Abyss might be a good replacement for Propaganda, since it leaves your Tezzeret'd artifacts alone.

  4. #4

    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    If you're going to run PW in a stax with blue run Tezz 1.0

    And cut a tabernacle for the 3rd seat.

  5. #5
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    If you're going to run PW in a stax with blue run Tezz 1.0

    And cut a tabernacle for the 3rd seat.
    The whole point is to try new stuff out. Old tezz has been tried enough. Abyss is a possible option. I would like to stick another Smokestack, but not sure what to cut other than a jace.

  6. #6

    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    Why would you want to run a third seat of the synod? Its terrible. 1 Seat of the Synod is enough.

  7. #7
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    So the only reason for the inclusion of black is one mana symbol on one planeswalker? That's not that tough to manage at all
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

  8. #8
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    This is one of the most expensive decks in Legacy I have ever seen. Is Tezzeret better than Elspeth 1.0?

  9. #9
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    White stax leads to dead draws late game, but with jace u can recover. Been playing blue stax for a while on modo. Tezz can only make it better. Only thing I like more about 5cc tezz is u can search out pithing needle while chalice is out. Maybe he can be a 1 of over something.

    Dunno, lot of theory for about a week, when ill have more time to play.

  10. #10
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    updated list up here and up top

    it's been doing rather well.


    4 Trinisphere
    1 Scalding Tarn
    3 Seat of the Synod
    4 Maze of Ith
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    2 Island
    2 The Abyss
    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 Mox Opal
    1 Academy Ruins
    2 Engineered Explosives
    4 Wasteland
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Propaganda
    2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    3 Smokestack
    2 Underground Sea

    Sideboard
    2 Perish
    4 Engineered Plague
    1 Karakas
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Propaganda
    4 Ensnaring Bridge

  11. #11
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    updated first post. comments appreciated.

  12. #12

    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    Can you please put tags on your deck? LIKE PLEASE? I actually dislike it and it deters me from reading threads that have no deck tags. It's so annoying. It should be a MUST to do this.

  13. #13
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    How do you add tags on this site. I've mostest with tags plenty of times on other site, but don't see a button for it. Does it have to be manually coded in?

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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer733 View Post
    Can you please put tags on your deck? LIKE PLEASE? I actually dislike it and it deters me from reading threads that have no deck tags. It's so annoying. It should be a MUST to do this.
    While card tags are nice, comments like this are pointless. If you dislike it and it deters you, then don't read it. Besides, it's not like he's posting a list full of cards that no one has ever heard of. Anyone who has played Legacy will know what the cards in that list are without having to look at the card in deckbox.


    @OP: If you wish to put card tags in yoru decklist, put [ cards] [/ cards] around your decklist without the spaces between the [ and the c.
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    I have been having success with a similar build:

    Spells (32)
    4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2x The Abyss
    3x Crucible of Worlds
    4x Tangle Wire
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Maze of Ith
    3x Powder Keg
    3x Ensnaring Bridge
    1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    Mana Sources (28)
    4x Mox Diamond
    4x Ancient Tomb
    3x City of Traitors
    4x Wasteland
    2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Underground Sea
    4x Polluted Delta
    3x Island
    1x Swamp

    I moved all four Trinispheres to the sideboard, as they are really only good on the play (as they can easily be trumped by a turn 1 Aether Vial, Goblin Lackey, Thoughtseize, etc). The Tangle Wires are pretty superb at buying time and controlling creatures. I havent' really developed a sideboard plan as of yet. Oh and I chose the Powder Kegs over Ratchet Bombs so that I could destroy artifact lands and manlands, though that could be a mistake.

    Maindeck, I don't have much in the way of disruption against combo (aside from Chalice of the Void), but being able to side in 4x Trinisphere helps immensely. Control is always tough because there's little Stax (in general) can do aside from playing must-answer threats turn after turn, hoping they run out of answers.

    The deck seems to have a lot of vulnerability to Quasali Pridemages, Grim Lavamancers and their ilk. I've considered both Cursed Totem and Damping Matrix. Cursed Totem is nice because of the cost, but Damping Matrix can also shut down Sensei's Divining Top, Voltaic Key, Candelabra of Tawnos, Aether Vial, Jitte, .... What strategies/cards have you found helpful in the matchups with lots of artifact hate? What about Pernicious Deed?

  16. #16
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    ok so you are basically

    -smokestacks
    -explosives
    -trinisphere

    +kegs
    +tangle wire
    +3 more planeswalkers

    i have a few more mana sources too i think overall.


    with my build i can't use the kegs b/c i'm running seat of the synod

    i actually was going crazy looking for cursed totems in edison last week,
    was only able to find 1, haven't gotten around to testing.

    damping matrix might be better.
    that's a really good idea, and remember, if you chalice for 2
    you can't play totem.


    you should try smokestack if you're running crucible of worlds
    soemtimes it just lets you lock them down completely.

    smokestack also wrecks control.

    that all being said i've had the tangle wires in my binder for a while
    i've wanted to use them, maybe i'll give them a try soon.

    the matchups with a lot of artifact hate...

    i haevn't played vs a lot of deed stuff recently, but i used to run 2 karmic justice in my board
    it's easy to get with the moxes (i do run 6 though)

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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    I had eliminated the Smokestacks in the build in favor of The Abyss, but I have been testing against more aggressive decks recently. I'm trying to organize a playtest session with some of my friends here and I'll see how my list fairs against control. You're probably right about Smokestack being a wrecking ball against control (I used to play U/W Armageddon Stax and Smokestack was one of the best cards in that list). Karmic Justice is certainly helpful, but it doesn't actually answer their artifact hate, it just makes it hurt a lot (you still lose all of your stuff). Will post my testing results as soon as I can get some additional testing in.

  18. #18
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    2 Ideas:

    Inkmoth Nexus (Possible 2-turn win with Tez)
    Dark Tutelage (effective draw with Jace, and fits with Sol-Lands)
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  19. #19
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    the dark tutelage is a good idea, but if it's really only great with jace...it's more of a win more card. there's also a lot of high casting cost cards in the deck. that being said, i can still try it, as that card is rather cheap on magic online.

    the inkmoth...i just dont have room for it, and whether it's attacking 3 times with tezzeret guys or twice with inkmoth, i dont think it makes that much of a difference. i'd rather run other lands over it.

    i'm not sure what i should run tonight. i might try to squeeze some tangle wires in there. i'm pretty excited about that damping matrix. what a great idea.

    thanks

    i'll update after tonight.

  20. #20
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    Re: Planeswalker Stax

    this is the decklist i played tonight i went 3-0, then drew into top 4, won my semi-finals, then split finals.



    4 Trinisphere
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Smokestack
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 The Abyss
    2 Engineered Explosives

    //planeswalkers 5 cards

    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

    //mana sources (34 lands total)

    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Mox Opal
    1 Scalding Tarn
    3 Seat of the Synod
    2 Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 City of Traitor
    1 Academy Ruins
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Wasteland
    //keep me alive lands

    4 Maze of Ith
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    Sideboard
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    3 Perish
    4 Engineered Plague
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Sylvan Library
    4 Tarmogoyf



    short report

    round 1 ad nauseam

    he won game 1 on turn 2, i didn't have any stall cards.
    game 2 he didn't what i was on, so when i played chalice and then trinisphere, we went to game 3.
    game 3 he mulled twice, played a land go. i went land mox, chalice for 0, goyf

    match 2 Wub geddon stax

    this matchup is all about crucible + wastelands or in my case, my planeswalkers
    he won the first game and jace won the next 2.

    match 3 stiflenaught not sure of name, but lots of land denial

    i got pretty lucky and drew a ton of threats (chalice, trinisphere, crucible, planeswalkers) won 2-0

    match 4 draw vs burn

    match 5 goblins

    closest games, i won game 1 on a tabernacle + trinisphere. tezzeret pulled me out of death range.
    game 2 i kept a greedy slow hand with no hate cards and lost.
    game 3 i drew very well, got multiple engineered plagues and got both ensnaring bridges.

    overall was very fun. i liked the sb, and still know the deck has a lot of weaknesses, but it's very enjoyable to play.

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