I have messing around with a similar decklist. There is less prison cards but meh. Here it is:
3 The Abyss
3 Sword of the Meek
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4 Mental Misstep
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Lotus Petal
3 Jeweled Amulet
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Vault of Whispers
3 Darkwater Catacombs
SB:
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Mindbreak Trap
Missing cards and cards of note:
No trinisphere and crucible--> I found trinisphere did nothing unless cast turn one against most decks, also poor in multiples. Crucible was good, but not in multiples. Also, most people know how to build a manabase now so wastelock is rare. (Also don't play smokestack)
Force of will/Mental Misstep --> This deck sucks if opponent does what it wants. Slows down opponent so you can play spells.
Vendilion Clique/Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek--> Needs cards that are blue to pitch to force of will, also want artifacts for tezzeret so this is what I am thinking as of now. Cliques could be anything
Lotus Petal/Jeweled Amulet--> acceleration to play spells. No mox diamond because have had too many hands where you draw mox mox land and cant play anything. also no CotW. Jewled Amulet is jank but allows t1: land amulet t2: tomb/city --> abyss/tezz/jace
Before Mental Misstep I had tangle wires and transmute artifacts in main, so I am trying out a board with transmute artifacts instead.
I know the deck isn't Tier 1 so yea, but I like playing strategies that are bit different. Hope this helps with your builds and would hope you could help with mine :)
might want to take that list to the thopter list forum. i've seen some lists of that run 4 jace and 4 tezz. that list probably would benefit from mox opal.
trinisphere does amazing things after turn 1. unfortunately you need help from other cards (specifically tabernacle and wastelands)...that leads into the necessity of crucible. it's also fine in multiples if you have tezzeret and just want a beater. people can build manabases...but it's still chock full of nonbasics. smokestack can be excellent, so saying (don't play smokestack) doesn't really justify anything, please elaborate your testing so that your statements have some merit.
as a side note i'm really excited to see everyone will be playing mental mistep, as it does absolutely nothing vs the deck. people are cutting spell pierces in lists that i've been seeing, and that card can be so frustrating. we might get some sneaky wins this way! also post above....redundancy is good when your opponents tend to play counterspells and/or discard.
-rob
Hi Mr. Cakes, what's your current list (real life)? I think the thread is a little bit confusing, as lists from MTGO and RL get mixed up pretty often. I'm 2 Abyss and 2 Tezz short of assembling the deck :)
Hi to all. First, many thanks to mistercakes and Phil for their contribution. This thread gave me an inspiration to test the U/B build (I'm now rebuilding my pet Seeker Stax). I admit I was a non-believer at first and it took a while to sink in that Tezz 2.0 is actually good here. Adding a black source was a non-issue and Brainstorming with Jace + fetch was an added bonus. In my initial testing, Tezz's ultimate quickly finished games and those 5/5's he made both as cover/threat were definitely relevant. Turning 0/0 lands and artifacts into 5/5's permanently with abilities is stupid fun. Jace TMS sealed games with Crucible + Trini lock and he was perfect at bouncing bigger threats. Maze of Iths + The Abyss made Bridge + Cloister combo outdated. Tangle Wires are my favorites as they create windows of opportunity for me to set up. I'm X-0 undefeated with the list below, demolished Team Italia, Scepter, and Pox decks in the process.
{decklist withheld}
gotta give some credit to antipode too. anyway, why no 4 mox diamond? 27 lands, couldn't hurt. and 3 crucible. i am just a little confused about some of the choices. i do like me some 4 tangle wire 4 smokestack though.
also i haven't played this deck much recently irl because my local meta is weird as shit. there's another stax player as well as a lot of tier 2 decks. i played uw merfolk 2 weeks ago and hive mind this past friday. i'll get back into the stax soon enough.
-rob
Extra mox diamonds has been clogging up my hand (except against Hymn :P) when I don't have lands to pitch for it so I decided a 3-1 split with the Opal, which was never a dead draw. Being a legendary though can be an issue, especially when trying to ramp up permanents to feed to an active `stack.
Cutting crucibles is always a tough choice when you want to draw and resolve one everytime. However against blue and black decks, leading with chalices and 3sphres will guarantee that it sticks. Smoketack + Crucible is not the combo, it's Smokestack + 56 other permanents.
Took 2nd in a little 11 man local legacy tourny. Got out Jaced in the finals. G1 (lost the die) I had a jace countered, landed a jace, he played a jace to reset the board, he landed a Jace, I resolved a Tezz and smashed it dead for 5, then he landed another Jace ftw. Game two I rolled him on the play with something like t1 chalice, t2 stax. G3 I had a t1 chalice at 1, turn 2 trinisphere (force), turn 3 crucible(?). He hit all 4 land drops, played a jace and sealed me out. I played a Jace but he had the counter.
I like the 1 Tabernacle main. Tabernacle is best against Zoo and other critter rush decks, and the meta is shifting HEAVILY in favor of few threats. Against those decks Tabernacle has become less-than-stellar, and we aren't running Magus of the Tabernacle to complicate matters further into our favor.
I recommend trying 1 Tabernacle main.
Also, Pithing Needle is a pain when we're on the draw or forced to Chalice on 2 early against hate bears...
<Dave> dude...ive done this at ptq
This deck looks like a blast to play, so I'm putting it together. I've always liked Stax, and this deck seems like it shores up a lot of the weaknesses of white Stax (primarily lack of carddraw/filtering). I have one question pertinent to my meta. Other than COTV @ 2, or pre-empting him with lock pieces/planeswalkers (sometimes difficult) how does this deck answer Gaddock Teeg? There's a lot of GSZ in my meta nowadays, so Chalice doesn't even really prevent him from entering play consistently.
gaddock teeg is pretty tough. if you're really afraid of him, try to fit 2 smothers into the main. smother will also take care of some other problematic cards: goyf, kotr, dark confidant, trygon predator, pridemage(when tapped out) and some others.
i like to run perish in the sb as well.
-rob
I had been thinking the same thing. If not in the main, it might be worth a sideboard slot. If trying to think of a lock piece we can resolve through Teeg and eliminate him with, but I've turned up nothing so far, which is why Cabal Pit is attractive. I may just run a bunch of Perish/Nature's Ruin in the board and call it good, but that still makes game one vs. GSZ.dec pretty annoying if I don't get an explosive start. As we run 4-5 moxen, it might be possible to splash another color for something like Maelstrom Pulse (it would be easy enough to run a Tropical/Bayou) but casting it would still be very iffy.
Wait I'm an idiot - time for maindeck Rachet Bomb/Powder Keg LOL. Now I understand why the OP always seemed to have a couple in the maindeck.
EDIT: I've ebayed basically all the stuff I'm missing. If it gets here by this Saturday I may have a tournament report to put up.
Last edited by Admiral_Arzar; 05-09-2011 at 11:15 AM. Reason: Avoid double post.
How many artifacts do you want to run with Tezz's +1? In my 28-30 land builds, I've been whiffing far too much for my taste.
<Dave> dude...ive done this at ptq
you can always do the 1 mox opal and run some artifact lands if that is the issue. i'm usually not digging too hard with tezzeret, as i'm pretty happy just making a 5/5. a lot of the time you hit your multiples that you don't really care for, so whether or not you put the artifact in your hand is not a huge deal.
i might want to try the new shapeshifter thing as you can copy tarmogoyfs/coralhelm commander. (that being said is it always better to get the undergrounds vs merfolk so you can always deny the islandwalk ability via wastelands?
-rob
The shapeshifter is interesting, but I'm not sure if it's good enough in an already tight list (what would it replace?). Whether you fetch Seas or Islands depends on how likely you are to get screwed by an opposing Wasteland. If you can play your hand through Wasteland, by all means grab a Sea. Otherwise, you probably shouldn't take the risk. A lot of times Merfolk players will point their Wastelands at your sol-lands or lands that stop them attacking anyways, so it might be a moot point.
EDIT: I remember white stax typically running Ghostly Prison as an additional lock piece vs. aggro. In a similar vein, have you tested Propaganda in this list? It's probably inferior to Ensnaring Bridge, because the latter is an artifact and we don't play Armageddon to make the taxing effects truly back-breaking. I'm curious though, as it seems to be a good fit against a lot of aggro.
Last edited by Admiral_Arzar; 05-10-2011 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Avoid double post.
cakes, I tested Underground River as an alternative for underground Sea in Steel Stompy to reduce the risk of Islandwalk granted to Merfolks. However, Steel Stompy plays around 55 non colored spells maindeck so this makes more sense since I'm still primarily using the colorless aspect of River when tapping for mana and only use the U/B for Tezz and Master of Etherium.
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
I asked this question about 2 weeks ago. Propaganda doesn't prevent attacking Planeswalkers, so it's less useful.
Silent Arbiter might be a good alternative to swarms, and with Tezz can actually get pretty large too.
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Darkslick Shore is a good alternative, although if it's your 4th land drop it is pretty bad (if you had it as a 4th land drop while trying to cast a 4cmc planeswalker it most definitely slows you down a turn). Also, Darkslick Shore is usually seldom a turn 1 land drop even if you have it in hand because you want to play out your sol-lands on turns 1-2 for most parts.
A deck playing 23 lands and more most definitely sees the 4th land before turn 10 frequently (using turn 10 as a reference point on when most games in MTG should be finished). In fact on turn 4 (5th turn if you're on the play), you will see 4 land drops on turn 4 most frequently if you play 23 lands in deck:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...VE&hl=en#gid=1
(work in progress, refer to the LANDS tab for 23 lands analysis)
Darkslick Shore is definitely a viable option (perhaps even better in land-light decks). I suggested Underground River because the pain 1 life is only relevant when you're playing a colored spell, and as long as your maindeck is primarily colorless, this is the best land that you can get since you are seldom paying the life (unlike City of Brass and other alternatives). M10 land is just bad. M10 lands are only played in majorly 2-colored decks with lots of basics/duals e.g. Landstill as a 1-2 off but even then it's not ideal.
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
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