Planeswalker Stax

[death]

Here's a list of the U/B producing lands which are outside of Merfolk territory:

Darkslick Shores (and Drowned Catacomb) - CIPT terribly slow and are likely to get destroyed before you can tap it for colored mana

Sunken Ruins - needs a colored mana source, with 4-5 moxen it's useless more than half of the time to tap for mana unless pitched for mox

Underground River - Painland, taps for colorless however it's real purpose is for / and it is really going to deal substantial damage

I'd recommend Darkwater Catacombs over the above, since all it needs is a colorless source to go online which this deck has a lot

Ratchet Bomb/P. Keg vs Engineered Explosives - i'd go with EE on this one since it's faster to activate and won't take 3 turns to pop Teeg. i have to admit that Sunburst makes it restraining

Silent Arbiter vs Ensnaring Bridge - both have its merits but bridge will buy a lot of time against decks that run Eldrazi dudes when it resolves

[Jim Higginbottom]

Since this deck has top 8d multiple larger regional events shouldn't it be moved to established?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Since this deck has top 8d multiple larger regional events shouldn't it be moved to established?

Maybe. I think "Established" has more to do with whether a "finalized" list of sorts has been found through testing. This deck is still pretty new, and people are posting a lot of different builds, so I don't think that's the case as of yet.

[mistercakes]

EE can't be cast when teeg is out. i'll work on a primer for this deck at some point soon.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Played this list at my local earlier:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
2 The Abyss
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Maze of Ith
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Academy Ruins
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island

Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Cursed Totem
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Nature's Ruin
2 Perish
4 Ensnaring Bridge

I didn't take notes, so here's a quick report based on my hazy memory. I know I made a number of mistakes, but I also just drew badly a few times.

Round 1 - Burn

Game one I Trinisphere/Smokestack/Crucible lock him out at four life (after Price of Progress O_o), and he scoops. Game two I mull to five looking for Chalice or T-Sphere and find neither, and proceed to lose. Game three I mull to five, finding Chalice. Unfortunately, it gets hit by Smash to Smithereens and I die a fiery death. I think I boarded out some slow stuff for EE and Ratchet Bomb.

1-2, 0-1 matches

Round 2 - LEDless Dredge

I had Tabernacle both of these games, which made it very rough for him. Game one I eventually raced his Zombies and Ichorids with two 5/5 artifact creatures after not drawing Wasteland for his lands all game long. Game two I went land-go, then Chalice at one, Crypt. I eventually had a million lock pieces, including Crucible+Wasteland, and recurring Crypt with Academy Ruins. I think he scooped when he had around five cards in his library, and I still hadn't drawn a wincon. I boarded in the extra EE and Ratchet Bomb here. This deck seems to be a huge uphill battle for Dredge unless they get the nuts. Even without yard hate, so many cards here are just terrible for them.

2-0, 1-1 matches

Round 3 - Hypergenesis

Game one I drop a fast Trinisphere which prevents Hypergenesis shenanigans. However, after a few turns he Show and Tells Emrakul and I don't have Jace or the Abyss, and die. Game two I have Ensnaring Bridge off the Show and Tell (and a Chalice, which gets blown up by Ingot Chewer). However, before I'm able to draw a back-up lock piece he draws Krosan grip, and it's GG to flying tentacle monsters. Sideboard was random stuff out for 4 Ensnaring Bridge.

0-2, 1-2 matches

Round 4 - Team Italia

Both of these games went very long, with me grinding him out with Smokestack/Trinisphere/Crucible/The Abyss. I had a couple of Chalices game one, as well as Tabernacle I think. The second game I had like three Maze of Ith, which was pretty amazing. Even Dark Confidant's card advantage didn't save him, and it actually killed him the second game. This is the match that surprised me the most, as this deck seemed similar to Junk in concept. However, it ran a lot more one mana spells, and thus was much more vulnerable to Chalice. Its guys are also mostly small. I didn't board anything here.

2-0, 2-2 matches

Conclusions: this deck is a lot of fun to play. It's much more interesting than most control/prison decks I have played, and is extremely powerful. I drew quite poorly in a few games (such as barely drawing any outs against SnT + Emrakul). Proper mulligans with this deck are rather difficult, and I think I screwed up there a few times. I was low on colored sources a few times, and also got Mox Diamond flooded every once in a while. I really want the fourth City of Traitors back in, just because the explosive first turn is so important. I really don't know what to cut though (other than the Volcanic Island, not even really sure why that's there).

I also tested this deck rather thoroughly against Gerry T's BUG disruption list, as well as TES. TBH, it crushes BUG pretty hard preboard. That deck evens it out postboard with hate, but it's still by no means unfavorable. If Storm gets the nuts, we lose, but they usually don't. Empty the Warrens is also extremely risky for them. I would call it favorable, although it becomes a little closer to even the better the storm pilot is I think.

Thoughts, advice? I'm thinking about taking this deck to GP Providence if I can get some more testing in, as it seems very strong in MentalMisstepHysteria.meta.

[mistercakes]

I tested a lot yesterday after chickening out with my pet deck due to a string of losses on magic online. i ended up bringing junk to a gpt yesterday and lost.

anyway after that i put the stax deck together and tested several games vs thopters and merfolk (all preboard)

merfolk crushed me over and over again. this was the list i was testing:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
1 The Abyss
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tangle Wire
2 Karn Liberated

4 Maze of Ith
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Blue Fetches
2 Underground Sea
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island

Now I was testing for Karn Liberated. He did come in play once vs thopters and he seemed insane. I only ran two to improve my chances of drawing him. I really enjoy having a vindicate in the deck.

Conclusions: the deck could use ensnaring bridges in this meta of goyfs, merfolk, emrakuls, progenitus etc.
If decks can't kill the bridge, it's a pretty hard lock. If you draw multiples, it is also usually a lock. Decks like BUG and some of the show and tell decks have no out to it preboard. Dredge usually has 1 out being a terrastodon if 2 bridges are in play. Merfolk has no outs. Goblins maindeck has siege gang as an out, affinity has ravager, so they can still get there, natural order is difficult to beat and I feel like it's the only card that can reasonably stop progenitus. They also have lots of cards to kill bridges, but maybe drawing multiples can pay off.

I also remember my strong tourney performances relying on the bridges to get there, and in the matchups where it feels weak, they can be boarded out.
The downside is when drawing multiple legendary status cards, extra planeswalkers, legendary lands, the 2nd abyss, you get forced to either make the bridge worse, or blow up your own stuff.

Tangle wires are also very strong, but due to the lack of nemesis online, I can't thoroughly test them. They have been very good in paper tournaments though.

Now using the kegs/ratchet bombs/EE in the main. They might be required in order to deal with swarms of stuff, but the bridges might just be as effective.

I may play in a GPT today with the deck, this is the list I will use if that's the case:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
1 The Abyss
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Powder Keg
1 Karn Liberated

4 Maze of Ith
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Blue Fetches
2 Underground Sea
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Academy Ruins
2 Island

SB:
Like I said, lots of merfolk is my meta. Lots of BUG, and some goblins, some storm, and some bant. The rest is fringe decks which usually get owned by chalice.


3 Null Rod
2 Llawan
3 Engineered Plague
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Powder Keg
2 Perish

I will most likely play this deck at the GP, with some modifications obviously.
I know this deck is weak to deed, but I think it's just something that has to be accepted.

[Admiral_Arzar]

3 Null Rod
2 Llawan
3 Engineered Plague
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Powder Keg
2 Perish

I will most likely play this deck at the GP, with some modifications obviously.
I know this deck is weak to deed, but I think it's just something that has to be accepted.

Deed is something we can't deal with without boarding Phyrexian Revoker, Pithing Needle, etc. However, I've heard a lot of Junk decks are actually cutting it, so all the better for us. I'm interested in brainstorming how the sideboard would look for the wide-open meta at the GP. I agree with you that Bridge needs to come back into the main, it might have saved me in at least one match yesterday. I also agree with no grave hate - as I discovered, this deck crushes Dredge pretty hard.

I have no Karn, so I'll probably keep running the second Abyss in its place - I found that card to be the stone-cold nuts when it did resolve, anyways.

One thing I forgot from my report yesterday was that the Team Italia player actually cast Serenity against me game two, although I had controlled his board pretty well. He was at low life though, so I simply rebuilt using Planeswalkers and quickly killed him. The lack of artifact lands really helps out against Serenity/Deed/Null Rod, but it also causes me to whiff when activating Tezzeret once in a while.

[IamPhil]

FWIW, you can animate your Ensnaring Bridge with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas when facing Dredge in game 1. This will lock the game vs Dredge Dread Returning a Terastadon.

[C Rayz Walz]

I think the list with Karn is way to greedy to be honest. 7 mana for this deck actually seems like a lot and with 4 maze and 2 tabernacle that don't produce mana unless you have an urborg out seems pretty bad. I think bridge is amazing in stax and I think you really need it as it really stops merfolk cold. I personally don't like keg and do not really get why you run it over E.E.

[mistercakes]

The Karn still needs some more testing. The powder keg over EE is just to help deal with Teeg, as the deck doesn't really have an out to it otherwise.

Anyway,

I played in a GPT on sunday with the list mentioned in the primer with 1 karn. Things didn't go so well with me as my draws weren't so hot. This is how it went.


4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
1 The Abyss
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Powder Keg
1 Karn Liberated

4 Maze of Ith
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Blue Fetches
2 Underground Sea
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Academy Ruins
2 Island

SB:

2 Null Rod
1 Extirpate
2 Llawan
3 Engineered Plague
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Powder Keg
2 Perish


Round 1: Nice guy playing burn.

Game 1: I mull to 5 on the play. I play an island, and he plays a mountain and quest for the double damage. My next turn I play down a trinisphere. Followed by smokestack on the following turn, and then crucible the next turn...yes, i lived the dream.

sb: took out abyss and bridges for ratchet bombs and other random stuff that could kill the quest card.

Game 2: I somehow manage another turn 2 trinisphere, turn 3 stax. then i just started playing out all my cards, i didn't have a crucible, but when i upped the stax to 2 counters, he went to 1 land, and then scooped. dunno how i beat burn! pure luck!

Round 2: Reid Duke playing NOBant (he was on the play game 1)

Game 1: I didn't really want to play him, as he was one of the stronger players at the tournament, but it did feel nice to see how the deck would go vs bant yet again. I knew that with the 3 maindeck ensnaring bridges he would be required to get multiple qasali pridemages in theory to stop me. Anyway...I had a reasonable draw which contained crucible of worlds and jace, smokestack, tezzeret, and the abyss. i ran out the tezzeret first as i was hoping to bait out some countermagic. he had a goyf out, so i +1 on the tezz, got something...i think it was ensnaring bridge, and passed. he killed the tezz. i played down the abyss the following turn since I assumed he had no counter magic, and it resolved. things were tough for him, but he played out the natural order. progenitus in play. i had drawn a 2nd ensnaring bridge and played one, which was force of willed, and the 2nd one resolved. i drew a wasteland the following turn and tapped out for something (i was very low on life due to ancient tombs, so i had used my wasteland for mana) i think it was to play a smokestack or crucible or something...i wish i could remember. i was going to start wasting his lands to keep him low, but couldn't do everything in one turn. maybe it was a chalice for 2 to stop his pridemage. i think that was it. his only out then was green sun zenith and he did rip it, and then kill me. poor me.

I brought in 2 llawan, 1 bridge, 2 perish.
I'm honest not sure what I sided out. Brain fart.

Game 2: not so exciting. I kept a reasonable hand, but lost to turn 1 hierarch, turn 2 pridemage, turn 3 or 4 goyf. i never drew a perish and got wiped out.

(side note) i never drew a maze of ith or tabernacle vs him both games, so who knows how it could have gone.

Round 3: Nice guy playing merfolk

Game 1: I win the die roll and I'm pretty sure he's on merfolk because my friend just lost to him. Now keep in mind I'm sick of losing to merfolk, and that is the reason why I put the bridges back in the maindeck. I get a turn 1 chalice down, and turn 2 I play a crucible of worlds. I then resolved the abyss vs him, and things were looking very good. Jace was also in play...how can I lose? I'll tell you how I can lose. I had 1 maze of ith, and he drew 2 mutavaults, and some wastelands. I never drew a 2nd maze of ith or a single wasteland over the course of several turns of using jace+fetches. I also tried to resolve a tezzeret, but he got countered and i never drew the 2nd one (to provide me with a blocker) anyway, sometimes the deck just beats itself. i was pretty annoyed at this game, and sorry for venting to anyone!

Game 2: I was on the play, and kept a really odd hand of wasteland, tabernacle, maze of ith, maze of ith. I know he had back to basics in his deck, and just hoped he didn't have it. Anyway, I do manage to draw an ancient tomb and play an ensnaring bridge, but then he double wastelands me (the tabernacle and the tomb. i had in my hand jace + tezz, and instead of drawing lands or anything i can play out of my hand, i draw jace jace tezz off the top and get stomped.

I dropped after round horribly discouraged with the deck. Perhaps some more testing vs merfolk should be warranted.

My SB strategy vs them was

-4 trinisphere
-1 karn
-1 smokestack (mistake maybe)

+1 ensnaring bridge
+2 llawan
+1 ratchet bomb
+1 engineered explosives
+1 powder keg


Like I said, the Karn was merely for testing. I don't mind testing in a tournament as it will either prove itself or not. Unfortunately I never drew him except the one game where I had no lands to play out any of my cards vs merfolk. I tested him the day before and was happy. Anyway, gg's to everyone who played.

-Rob

[Admiral_Arzar]

@ mistercakes: I plan of running this deck through a gauntlet of the decks that just T8'd at SCG: Orlando tomorrow (I'm particularly worried about Merfolk, although the switch from Spell Pierce -> Mental Misstep should work in our favor). I'll post test results afterwards.

I'm also going to test Damping Matrix in the sideboard - it seems really good against a lot of decks and does very little to this one.

[mistercakes]

i would heavily prepare for merfolk, bant, rock, and team america. most other matchups are in our favor. improve those matchups first, and then take the deck to the GP.

let's try to figure this stuff out together.

also! somebody made a picture for me for the deck on the first post. pretty sweet!

[conboy31]

I chuckled at your picture, my superstax deck is in the same sleeves. I am going to play some games with it this friday and hopefully attend a few legacy tournaments in Minneapolis over the next few weeks. I will let you guys know if I come up with any slight adjustments mb/sb, etc.

[Admiral_Arzar]

That banner is amazing, my first though was "this would be the sexiest playmat EVER."

mistercakes, my maindeck is your updated one with these changes:
-1 KARRRNNN
-1 Powder Keg

+1 Tezzeret
+1 The Abyss

I've been considering cutting a Tezzeret for the fourth Ensnaring Bridge or a second Creeping Tar Pit, but I'm not sure how good either of those ideas are. I'm working on the sideboard right now, so far it looks like this:

3 Damping Matrix
2 Nature's Ruin
2 Perish
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tormod's Crypt

I don't think the Crypts are particularly necessary though, as Dredge hasn't been a factor lately and this deck is very strong against it anyways (Loam.dec also seems to be dead, although I could see it resurging to fight blue). If I can procure 2-3 copies of Llawan I will probably replace the Crypts with her, as I hate Merfolk. 4 Perish effects are there because I have an irrational hatred of Gaddock Teeg, and I also hate losing to Progenitus. The bombs and explosives are of course catch-all answers. Damping Matrix is a versatile card, and is primarily there to stop SDT, Thopter Foundry, and EE recursion versus control. However, it has a ton of applications, such as shutting off Vial, Equipment, Lavamancer, Pridemage, Knight, a lot of stuff in MUD, bad cards in DnT, etc.

EDIT: Another card I'm considering, as a replacement for Engineered Plague (which seems too narrow now that Goblins is getting killed by Mental Misstep), is Night of Soul's Betrayal.

[.dk]

Hello - I'm pretty new to the forum, but have been lurking and reading for a long time...

I've been testing this deck on paper lately, and I'm having a blast playing it. At least with the initial lists that I've been testing, it seems that the weak matches are REALLY weak, but the strong matches are REALLY strong - so I was looking at how to even that out a bit. One of the plays that seem to be the most backbreaking was especially a T1 3sphere followed by T1 Chalice. So, I've modified my list a bit to try to maximize my chances of being able to cast a T1 3sphere. The list I'm currently rocking:

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 grim monolith
3 ensnaring bridge
3 smokestack
3 crucible of worlds
4 mox diamond
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
2 the abyss

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 wasteland
3 maze of ith
1 tabernacle at pendrell vale
2 island
1 swamp
2 underground sea
3 polluted delta
1 academy ruins
2 inkmoth nexus

SB:

3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
3 Engineered Plague
3 Perish
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Ensnaring Bridge


I'm not yet sold on the Grim Monoliths, but they've really been helping power out T1 3sphere as an alternative to Mox Diamond + Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors.

Earlier lists I was playing didn't maindeck Ensnaring bridge - I'm currently in agreement with most of you that these NEED to be in the main now. In addition to the obvious applications (Emrakul, Progenitus) and Merfolk (as mentioned), this also stops Aggro Loam. I know that deck hasn't been popular lately, but it seems well positioned with the likely popularity of Merkfolk and Mental Misstep so I wanted to test that matchup in case others feel the same way. Without Bridge, Countryside Crusher goes insane!

Other interesting things of note from matchups I've played (sorry for not much detail, I wasn't taking copious notes):

1. 3Sphere owns ANT
2. Chalice on 0 also owns non-Tezz Affinity
3. Phyrexian Revoker is a great T1 answer to both Aether Vial as well as Deed and applies pressure at the same time. Also trades with Lackey.
4. I had trouble in decks with wasteland (especially Wasteland + Loam) keeping enough mana in play - hence the Grim Monolith as well as 3 Basics.
5. The only way I've beaten Merfolk G1 is pushing through countermagic to land Bridge.
6. Inkmoth Nexus has net me a few unexpected wins!
7. Contagion Clasp answers Teeg, and ups counters on stax, planeswalkers, etc.

I'm also not sold on Engineered Plagues in the board - I haven't tested against Goblins enough. I can see Damping Matrix in its place potentially...

Anyway, thanks for the great work on this stuff - this is a blast to play and can't wait to see where development takes it.

[mistercakes]

it might be right to cut a maze of ith for another fetch. ensuring you can play out your planeswalkers with bridge out can be problematic. it also works best with jace in getting rid of dead cards (brainstorm fetch style)

now that decks are maindecking more jaces in the main, the sideboard needs to be better equipped to deal with him. I would recommend maybe that 2nd tar pit.

Very hard to fit everything right now. Still lost as to how to win the bant matchup. It might require the 2 natures ruin and 2 perish like was posted above.

[Admiral_Arzar]

now that decks are maindecking more jaces in the main, the sideboard needs to be better equipped to deal with him. I would recommend maybe that 2nd tar pit.

Very hard to fit everything right now. Still lost as to how to win the bant matchup. It might require the 2 natures ruin and 2 perish like was posted above.

Perish effects are also extremely strong against Zoo, Canadian Threshold, Junk, some BUG variants, and a lot of fringe decks (in addition to shitting on any variation of Bant/New Horizons). I would recommend playing four, I would consider playing more if I had additional sideboard slots lol. Damping Matrix (or Cursed Totem if you run it) is also decent against Bant as it shuts down Qsali Pridemage and Knight, but I'm not sure what to side out for it in that case. I'll probably try and work in a second Creeping Tar Pit somewhere, but I'm at a loss for what to cut.

[antipode3141592]

Because this deck is about 110% permanents, a really good sideboard card in some matchups is Energy Field. Of course, it is anti-synergy with Smokestack and Wastelands, etc, but it stops aggro decks in their tracks. One of the issues with aggro and burn decks is the vulnerability of your planeswalkers, so Leyline of Sanctity can be a great sideboard card, as they can't target you and redirect the damage to your planeswalkers, so everything form Lightning Bolt to Grim Lavamancer becomes worthless.

Also, this is a deck that might benefit from maindeck Chancellor of the Annex or Mental Misstep. Chancellor is essentially unplayable in the deck, and relies on being in your opening hand, but it gives the deck some game when it is on the draw (which is when this deck is at it's weakest). The same argument goes for Menal Misstep, although it stays relevant later in the game.

The decks weakness to being on the draw (which happens half the time) is why I am such a strong supporter of 4x Tangle Wire maindeck (and only having the 4x Trinisphere in the sideboard, for when you are on the play or when you are vs. combo). Sometimes it's the only way to get back in the game if they start with a turn 1 Aether Vial or Goblin Lackey.

For the further development of this deck, I think we should all try to determine what the deck is weak to and why. It's extremely difficult for this deck to function against heavy counterspells and can even be outraced by aggro if we don't draw the right lock pieces in time. I haven't spent any time testing this deck over the past couple weeks, as I've pretty much fallen in love with Merfolk again, but this version of Stax still has tons of unexplored potential.

[antipode3141592]

@mistercakes, what are the biggest problems against facing Bant? Is it the Quasali Pridemages? The shear threat density with counterspell backup and occasional stifle effects?

Why not take a page from other Stax decks and splash some white for a Tundra so we can run out some Magus of the Tabernacle in the SB? I used to play a lot of Armageddon Stax and that card was such a beating against Bant. Other than him, running the Perish/Nature's Ruin set seems good. Damping Matrix is a house again them if you can resolve it as well.

[GGoober]

@mistercakes, what are the biggest problems against facing Bant? Is it the Quasali Pridemages? The shear threat density with counterspell backup and occasional stifle effects?

Why not take a page from other Stax decks and splash some white for a Tundra so we can run out some Magus of the Tabernacle in the SB? I used to play a lot of Armageddon Stax and that card was such a beating against Bant. Other than him, running the Perish/Nature's Ruin set seems good. Damping Matrix is a house again them if you can resolve it as well.

Blue has a Tabernacle effect as well: Pendrell Mists, not to mention he is already running the real Tabernacle effects which fit naturally in a blue shell with better digging and draw spells.