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Thread: [Deck] Blue Zoo

  1. #421

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    I have been absent for a while from the tread. Its hard for me to get too behind cutting delver. My meta is also like 20% storm so I could never cut FOW from my 75. I am off wasteland for the moment playing the following
    3 wooded foothills
    3 scalding tarn
    2 misty rainforest
    1 arid mesa
    1 flooded strand
    2 tropical island
    2 volcanic island
    1 tundra
    1 taiga
    1 savannah
    1 plateau
    4 brainstrom
    4 ponder
    4 force of will
    3 daze
    1 spell pierce
    4 lightning bolt
    4 chain lightning
    1 forked bolt
    1 fire//ice
    1 tribal flames
    1 slyvan library
    3 grim lavamancer
    4 nacatl
    4 delver of secrets
    4 tarmogoyf
    sb
    2 ethersworn canonist
    2 meddling mage
    2 fluster storm
    1 spell pierce
    3 path to exile
    3 sulfuric vortex
    2 krosan grip

    My meta is heavy on storm decks at the moment with the potential to see as many as 3 AnTs 1 high tide and 1 tinfins in at most 16 people. We usually have a couple control decks, a tribal deck,1-2 jund decks, deadguy ale, and BRUG delver, NO/combo elves. My deck does pretty well in that field.

  2. #422
    Trop -> Nacatl Pass
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    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Blue Zoo 2014

    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    3 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Chain Lightning
    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder

    2 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tundra
    1 Taiga
    1 Plateau
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Wooded Foothills

    Basically, I think all the Flex slots now go to True-Name Nemesis. He's just a wizard killer, plain and simple, good for the deck.

  3. #423
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    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Updated the main post for the first time in 2 years, bump. True-Name Nemesis anyone? I like this choice for metas with lots of Merfolk and Combo

  4. #424
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    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    I like your list lots, but I think clique might have some more applications


    Btw, is there something I can run instead of goyf? I don't own them (but, luckily my local scene allows proxies, so I guess I can get away without owning them)

    Also, what are your thoughts on the following list?


    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Chain Lightning
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Plateau
    1 Tundra
    1 Taiga
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Flooded Strand
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Submerge
    SB: 2 Rest in Peace
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 2 Rough // Tumble
    SB: 1 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 Gut Shot
    Last edited by monovfox; 12-23-2013 at 05:42 PM.
    Emptying the Warrens: So YOU don't have to!

  5. #425

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    I played stoneforge one time in addiotino to goyf. I can see it being ok instead of him. Here is the first post true name list I ran. I was pretty happy with true name in general though I think 2 is the right number for me. If I was to run 3 I would probebly cut a goyf.
    3 wooded foothills
    3 scalding tarn
    2 misty rainforest
    1 arid mesa
    1 flooded strand
    2 volcanic isalnd
    2 tropical island
    1 tundra
    1 taiga
    1 savannah
    1 plateau
    1 badlands
    3 force of will
    3 daze
    4 brainstorm
    4 ponder
    4 lighting bolt
    3 chain lighting
    4 tribal flames
    2 green sun zenith
    2 true name nemesis
    4 tarmogoyf
    4 delver of secrets
    4 wild nacalt

    sb
    2 meddling mage
    2 etherswon canonist
    1 force of will
    2 fluster strom
    2 qualsali pridemage
    1 gaddock teeg
    1 scavenging ooze
    2 sulfuric vortex
    2 grim lavamancer

  6. #426

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    I looked through few pages, perhaps I'm missing something. These lists are just the original zoo, but slower with counters and card-drawing. I can come up with a more wasteland-proof, more threat-consistent version and still with counters, it's called Merfolk, it can even run True-Name Nemesis if you incline to. What exactly is the qualification of a Blue Zoo?

    In case you don't like Merfolk, I say cut Green. Green just stirs you toward a worse version of Maverick. Use White for Wear//Tear or Disenchant, Canonist or Thalia. Don't run Brainstorm, Merfolk doesn't bother with it, we don't need it, just play more threats. I laugh at lists that has FoW but less than 15 blue cards, excluding FoW itself.

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning

    4 Goblin Guide
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Steppe Lynx

    3 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Ponder

    21 lands

  7. #427

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Delver is not awesome in that deck as you only have 19 spells. I don't think playing ponder over brainstrom is ever going to be correct. Ponder is better for keeping 1 landers but in general it is a much worse card. From playing various delver decks I would not want to go 24 spells if I can help it. URw sligh is a decent strat though (Hanni has a thread for it) you just want more burn. As to how good these list are I can say I have been reasonably sussessful with them locally (overall record somewhere around 60%) and about 55% in SCG events. I can tell you from having played naya zoo recently it is much more resialant in the current meta. My version at least is not particularly slow as it can normallly gold fish on turn 4 or 5. It is also a totally differnt deck than merfolk as it has a lot of removal, less creatures, and cantripping.

  8. #428

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    It seems like everyone has their own version of Blue Zoo so I'll just post mine, basically the theory of Blue Zoo as far as I know it is to play a more aggressive RUG at the cost of having less protected threats and less stable manabases, the upsides are having 3 power on Nacatl T2 as opposed to 3 power on Mongoose T3, being more resistant to Rest in Peace and having the option to SB in White cards.

    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Taiga
    2 Plateau

    Ponder is a waste of tempo in a deck with 8 aggressive one drops, I'd sooner play Gitaxian Probe.

  9. #429

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    It seems like everyone has their own version of Blue Zoo so I'll just post mine, basically the theory of Blue Zoo as far as I know it is to play a more aggressive RUG at the cost of having less protected threats and less stable manabases, the upsides are having 3 power on Nacatl T2 as opposed to 3 power on Mongoose T3, being more resistant to Rest in Peace and having the option to SB in White cards.

    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Taiga
    2 Plateau

    Ponder is a waste of tempo in a deck with 8 aggressive one drops, I'd sooner play Gitaxian Probe.
    I play the full set of ponders for a few reasons.
    1. They let me keep alot of one landers (brainstrom is not as good at this)
    2. They help set up delver.
    3. They effectivly increase the number of each sb card
    4. They are pretty good in the mid-late game as often you are looking for one particualr type of card (counter to protect a winning board state, burn to win, ect)

    How does the mana function in your list? I would love to get 4 wasteland to work but I am always afraid to go below 18 colored lands. I will prob try out your list next time I play legacy as it looks interesting.

  10. #430

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by ajfennewald View Post
    I play the full set of ponders for a few reasons.
    1. They let me keep alot of one landers (brainstrom is not as good at this)
    2. They help set up delver.
    3. They effectivly increase the number of each sb card
    4. They are pretty good in the mid-late game as often you are looking for one particualr type of card (counter to protect a winning board state, burn to win, ect)

    How does the mana function in your list? I would love to get 4 wasteland to work but I am always afraid to go below 18 colored lands. I will prob try out your list next time I play legacy as it looks interesting.
    The mana base is fine, it's almost the same mana base as RUG when you think about it, just 2 more lands that basically serve as Mountains + pump spells and Taiga for the T1 2/2 and because the deck is sort of inundated with red mana as opposed to green. With Stifle I feel pretty safe in general, I wouldn't play Wasteland without it because you need to protect your colored sources all the more.

    Savanah and Tundra are complete shit, they're the wrong color combinations for your fetchlands - everything needs to be able to fetch for Plateau so you can swing for 3 on T2 - ideally you play Tropical Island, Wild Nacatl and have/bluff Daze, then you play Plateau Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning their creature, attack for 3 and now have/bluff Spell Pierce/Stifle.

    Stifle is so important in this deck just for being able to keep the opponent off of his mana for removal, that and SB Divert are like all stars in this deck when you don't have Shroud anymore.

    I'm pretty sure Ponder is wrong, Delver tends to flip naturally, you have more lands than RUG and you don't need to buid ********. Gitaxian Probe would be amazing if I had space in it, but frankly in a world of Deathrite Shamans and Delvers of Secrets I'm packing 8 removal spells all day long. Chain Lightning may as well be a one mana Stone Rain these days and every point of damage matters when you're playing a hyper aggro deck.

  11. #431
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    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    So you guys are basically playing RUG Delver with a more fragile manabase (white splash) just to enable Nacatl over Mongoose instead of the disruptive power of Stifle+Wasteland?

    If the goal is to gain that extra turn or 2, what about running a couple Fireblast?
    Last edited by FTW; 01-09-2014 at 02:27 PM.

  12. #432

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    So you guys are basically playing RUG Delver with a more fragile manabase (white splash) just to enable Nacatl over Mongoose instead of the disruptive power of Stifle+Wasteland?

    If the goal is to gain that extra turn or 2, what about running a couple Fireblast?
    I play Wasteland and Stifle, the manabase isn't any more fragile than RUG considering it plays 20 instead of 18 lands and Fireblast is definitely worse than Price of Progress if you want to go "All In"

  13. #433
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    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I play Wasteland and Stifle, the manabase isn't any more fragile than RUG considering it plays 20 instead of 18 lands and Fireblast is definitely worse than Price of Progress if you want to go "All In"
    Well, by "All In" i'm talking about winning a turn earlier. That appears to be the point of playing this over RUG, right? You get Nacatl online earlier than Mongoose and, esp with the extra burn, your clock is 1-2 turns faster. If a faster clock is the point, wouldn't Fireblast (free) or some other cheap damage be better than PoP (2-mana)? PoP can also blank...

  14. #434

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Well, by "All In" i'm talking about winning a turn earlier. That appears to be the point of playing this over RUG, right? You get Nacatl online earlier than Mongoose and, esp with the extra burn, your clock is 1-2 turns faster. If a faster clock is the point, wouldn't Fireblast (free) or some other cheap damage be better than PoP (2-mana)? PoP can also blank...
    I doubt it, PoP on average is 4 points of damage and then scales even higher as the game progresses - while never causing you to destroy your manabase in case of a counter spell. It's a brutal SB card for finishing games abruptly.

  15. #435

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    The mana base is fine, it's almost the same mana base as RUG when you think about it, just 2 more lands that basically serve as Mountains + pump spells and Taiga for the T1 2/2 and because the deck is sort of inundated with red mana as opposed to green. With Stifle I feel pretty safe in general, I wouldn't play Wasteland without it because you need to protect your colored sources all the more.

    Savanah and Tundra are complete shit, they're the wrong color combinations for your fetchlands - everything needs to be able to fetch for Plateau so you can swing for 3 on T2 - ideally you play Tropical Island, Wild Nacatl and have/bluff Daze, then you play Plateau Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning their creature, attack for 3 and now have/bluff Spell Pierce/Stifle.

    Stifle is so important in this deck just for being able to keep the opponent off of his mana for removal, that and SB Divert are like all stars in this deck when you don't have Shroud anymore.

    I'm pretty sure Ponder is wrong, Delver tends to flip naturally, you have more lands than RUG and you don't need to buid ********. Gitaxian Probe would be amazing if I had space in it, but frankly in a world of Deathrite Shamans and Delvers of Secrets I'm packing 8 removal spells all day long. Chain Lightning may as well be a one mana Stone Rain these days and every point of damage matters when you're playing a hyper aggro deck.
    I am going to try your list as is this week to see if I like it. I think if I added ponder to your list it would be +2 ponder - 1 spell peirce - 1 stifle.
    Reguarding the prescence of savannah and tundra in my list I like the option of having all the possible two lands to get all 4 colors. I def like the option of tundra/taiga. Volc/savannah is not all that great though.
    Re finishers if you play a list like mine above tribal flames fills the role of finisher quite well. Looking at the list above final fortions deck plays as a faster RUG while mine is a U/R delver type deck with better creatures so they are actually quite differnt decks.

  16. #436

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    I will be going to SCG stl this weekend and playing blue zoo. I think this is the list I am going to play.
    3 wooded foothills
    3 scalding tarn
    2 misty rain forest
    1 arid mesa
    1 flooded strand
    2 volcanic island
    2 tropical island
    2 tundra
    1 platuea
    1 savannah
    1 taiga
    3 force of will
    3 daze
    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    3 lightning helix
    4 chain lightning
    4 lightning bolt
    1 green sun zenith
    2 ghor clan rampager (this slot is one I am testing this thursday)
    3 true name nemesis
    2 tarmogoyf
    4 delver of secrets
    4 wild nacalt
    sb
    3 flusterstorm (ANT, Belcher, Sneak and show, high tide)
    1 price of progress (anything durdly)
    2 reb (merfolk, high tide, tnn decks, sneak and show)
    2 ethersworn canonist (ANT, high tide, elves)
    1 gaddock teeg (ANT, elves mircles)
    2 quasali pridemage (stoneblade, mud, affinity, enchantress, painter decks)
    2 path to exile (BUG, RUG, merfolk goblins, jund)
    2 Jitte (elves, goblins, merfolk, DnT)
    The idea with ghor clan is he is kinda like a burn spell and is good for charging through TNN and chumpers. I am pretty sold on TNN in the deck. It does a nice job of finishing things up and combines nice with my heavy burn set. The two tarmogoyfs 1 green sun zenith looks weird but it is mostly for spell count reasons. The one green sun makes the pridemages and teeg in the board a fair bit better. I general it seems I go much more burn heavy than a lot of people do. It has worked well for me in general as I am often able to win through burn out. Post board vs combo decks I get to up my counters to a respectable level and have hate bears. Most of my sideboard choices are pretty self explanatory. Price of progress might raise some eyebrows but people will usually not play around it at all and it can often do as much as 10. The matchups you side it in the 4-6 it does to you is not relavent.

  17. #437

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Anyone remember this deck? Gets a whole lot better with Treasure Cruise. We can now power through our libraries and generate raw card advantage for one Blue mana. I play my own Blue Zoo brew in Modern (which looks a lot like this deck, list here), and it has a fantastic matchup against UR Delver, which as you all know has been tearing up the Legacy meta since Khans of Tarkir. I figured if the UR Delver matchup is so good in Modern, why wouldn't it be good in Legacy?

    Another note: one big point of contention (yeah, I read the whole thread) seems to be Nacatl vs. Mongoose. I'll agree that Mongoose is the better beater, especially thanks to his utility in the Miracles matchup, but he obviously doesn't play well with Cruise. If Nacatl is just marginally worse, the Cat lets us employ a Thresh-esque gameplan AND Delve to our heart's content.

    My port to this format preserves the Counter-Cat shell, but soups it up with better cantrips and counterspells. I don't think we need as much MD Burn with all the digging we'll be doing, and we can also significantly cut back on Lands. Here's the list I'm bringing to GP New Jersey this weekend (subject to minor changes between now and Saturday morning):

    Creatures (18)
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Wilder Nacatl
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Grim Lavamancer

    Spells (28)
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Treasure Cruise
    1 Thought Scour
    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Forked Bolt

    Lands (16)
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Plateau
    1 Tundra
    1 Taiga

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Hallow
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Path to Exile

    Some explanations: MD Forked Bolt for Delver/D&T. Grim Lavamancer also helps here. Thought Scour for Miracles (added bonus: deals with Energy Field) or just for feeding Goyf/Lavaman/Cruise. 7 free counters for unfair decks and 3 TNN for fair ones. 3 Cruise because 4 felt clunky a lot of the time (but it was my starting point). Wish me luck!

  18. #438

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Changed the final list quite a bit. Did really well for my first-ever Legacy tournament; went 7-2 day 1 and 4-2 day 2. Won 200$. There were 4170 players.

    Creatures (13)
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Wilder Nacatl
    4 Tarmogoyf
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    Spells (31)
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Treasure Cruise
    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Swords to Plowshares

    Lands (16)
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Plateau
    1 Tundra
    1 Taiga

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Envelop
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Ancient Grudge
    3 Rough/Tumble
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Pithing Needle

    Changes for the future: the Plateau should really be a Tundra. When you need Cat to be 3/3 turn 2-3 (you need to Rough/Tumble some Pyromancers or something), you just don't go on the Daze plan; you Taiga --> Tundra. When you want to Daze t1, you accept that Cat will be 2/2 for a couple turns (Trop --> Volcanic/Tundra). Double Blue is really important in those matchups since you can Ponder and keep mana up for Snare/Spell Pierce/etc. Dropping Plateau means the Flooded Strands should be Misty Rainforests.

    General thoughts: the deck was superb. Didn't face a single UR Delver deck, which was kind of annoying, but Rough/Tumble was still good vs. Slivers (the guy was 6-2!!) and Infect (Hierarch, Hierarch, Hierarch, Elf, Elf... Rough, gg). Envelop's slightly worse than Flusterstorm against Combo (though I did get it off against Infernal Tutor and win), but countering Terminus is super relevant. Triple Pyroblast were all-stars, and so were the double Spell Snare in the main. People had no idea what to play around. Grudge helped against all the Jeskai Stoneblade I saw, and Library came in for a dead card in a few control matchups (i.e. Miracles). A few players pegged me as Jeskai Delver g1 since I hid Green and then ate it to Nacatls g2, or as RUG Delver. The rogue factor definitely played to my advantage.

    Generally speaking, cutting Swords for Decay and Nacatl for Deathrite seems more powerful. But in this particular meta, having a compact suite of efficient beaters that survive Rough/Tumble was probably better. A lot of players were geared up to beat UR Delver with Pyroclasm effects and couldn't keep up with my threats. Attacking into Nacatl and then Forked Bolting it sucks!

    The deck is a ton of fun. Ponder and Brainstorm are nuts. It was hard to go back to Serum Visions for the Modern Win-A-Box (which I did), but it felt good to play Wild Nacatl and Spell Pierce in that format too :)

    I lost to SneakShow (good MU, he had t1 Blood Moon on the play after my mull and then I went to 5 g3 and he waited until he had enough mana to pay for my Pierce AND Daze to Sneak Emrakul), Miracles (wow this is hard to beat), Death & Taxes (also a pain; lots of mulligans), and Jeskai Stoneblade (the one with a pair of SFM and some Snapcaster Mage, piloted by Andrew Cuneo; he resolved 4 Dig Through Time g1).

  19. #439

    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    Happy to see the deck doing well in a huge tournament. I have not got a ton of chance to play since Khans but I am 7-0-1 in the two tournaments I have played. Here is the list I have been playing

    Lands
    4 scalding tarn
    3 wooded foothills
    2 misty rainforest
    1 flooded strand
    2 volcanic island
    2 tropical island
    1 tundra
    1 taiga
    1 plateau

    Creatures
    4 delver of secrets
    4 wild nacatl
    3 young pyromancer
    2 tarmogoyf

    Spells
    4 force of will
    2 daze
    4 brainstorm
    4 ponder
    2 gitaxian probe
    4 treasure cruise
    4 lighting bolt
    4 chain lightning
    2 tribal flames

    Sideboard
    2 grafdiggers cage
    1 price of progress
    2 sulfuric vortex
    2 meddling mage
    1 ethersworn canonist
    2 pyroblast
    2 forked bolt
    1 ancient grudge
    2 fluster storm

  20. #440
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    Re: [Deck] Blue Zoo

    It's sad .. New development with 8 cards + manabase difference between U/R and this. Looks like all approach to ban something from:
    - Brainstorm
    - TC
    - Delver

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