Make sure you have a Pridgemage in there somewhere to tutor up with Green Sun's Zenith.
I could play 1 Qasali / Kotr / Terravore. You want it against Counterbalance, but isn't Tarmogoyf just as good?
Mental Misstep is gross. This is the list I'll be playing!
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Plateau
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
Mental Misstep makes this deck alot better, as you have more ways of being annoying. Swords, Stifle, and Aether Vial are big-time targets.
Today I was testing a new tempo Bant list with a friend, after a good amount of matches I suggested a similar list to him. The main difference was that we skipped on Force of Will and focussed more on the tempo provided by Mental Misstep, Stifle, Daze and Wasteland.
What about a more agressive approach:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
2 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Taiga
1 Tundra
1 Plateau
2 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
I stopped reading right there.
@ Troopatroop: Since I should probably contribute to this thread, MM sounds really good here. I like your list but I'm not sure you have enough lands to actually cast Jace consistently, and he doesn't really fit into your Tempo disruption, beat with fast dudes, lulz strategy. Perhaps a Vendillion Clique or KOTR or another burn spell would fit better.
Why? What spells do you desperately need to counter to the degree of giving up another card for it? It's a Zoo list; you don't -need- to protect any single threat, and unless the opponent plays something that directly interferes with you killing him and that you cannoy remove otherwise you don't care about it either.
I'd appreciate it if spelling and grammar were maintained. I understand not liking Jace, but he's basically the win if you can start brainstorming. At worst he pitches to Force of Will, but I've liked Vendilion Clique in that spot as well. Force of Will is still the best blue card in Legacy, and I want to play it. People get so testy!
I would call it "Aggro-Control" with Tempo Elements in Stifle and Wasteland. It really likes going first :D
this list is just not zoo thats all.
zoo wins through a high amount of cheap and strong critters, if you look at the history of the whole zoo archtype running less than 16 threats allready means that the list isnīt a zoo list anymore
by definition your list has nothing to do with zoo
It plays creatures that come from Zoo, but with less of them + a blue core. I've played both the decks, I'm aware it's different. >_<
I believe everyone understands that this is not zoo in the matter of redundant craeturedrops and a high spotremovalratio. The way these decks are played resembles CT/NLT and thus there is no need to reduce the discussion to semantics. If the urge is too strong, feel free to imagine another deckname.
Regarding card choices i feel that Kird Apes are too weak, even in classic zoo. With fewer creatures we must play the strongest ones in respective colours. I personally would go with Steppe Lynxes because of the striking power with fetchlands and due to the fact that they somewhat synergize with daze, thus they become potentially less dead midgame.
Obviously the blue power 16 (playsets of BS, FoW, Daze and MM) + 4 Stifle/Ponder would be the shell i would test first, combined with a high fetchcount and hopefully Wastelands. This makes FoW a decent choice with 20(+) blue cards. After that the easy part of construction remains, filling up the deck with the strongest dudes and 4 Lightning Bolts:).
PS. Blue might have a decent flyer that could fit the deck.
I think the next best threat is Steppe Lynx, that card is fast as heck and you can cut duals for more fetches. Daze combos well with Steppe Lynx later in the game too. I think snare is abit too narrow, so maybe it deserves to be cut for Lynx.
At least someone with common sense. I know cutting down on Force of Will is not the common thing to do, but loosing a card is cutting down on the reach of the deck. Spell Snare on the other hand is important in order to cut opposing Chalice of the Voids, Tarmogoyfs and Counterbalances. I agree that Kird Ape is not the most impressive threat, but Steppe Lynx obliges us to fetch for white and we don't really start with a Tundra. I also believe the deck could use some Chain Lightnings to boost our Tarmogoyfs.
So, do you guys realize that force of will can be used to counter cards beyond those just disrupting your game plan? FoW doesn't just protect, it disrupts your opponents, and this is in a time where combo is dominant. FoW is completely worth stopping a CB/top as well. Did you just think you save FoW for a stp?
I will make use of every tool that fate presents.
I've been doing some more testing on this deck, and I've streamlined the list a bunch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
I streamlined the manabase, and the fetches can get any Dual. I've found 2 Daze to be fine. It puts the fear in them if they see one, while ensuring you won't get bogged down with them. This opened up room for 3 Ponder, which have been amazing for me. I'm flip-flopping between White and Red, but I've found White to be better.
- StP is more versatile than Lightning Bolt. Playing big creatures offsets the lifegain.
- Knight of the Reliquary compliments this strategy nicely, and this deck hates being ground stalled.
- The Plateau casts 2 more cards with KoTR in the deck, giving it more casting quality while on the board.
Overall, I really enjoy playing this deck. Wild Nacatl can put on so much pressure early in conjunction with Wasteland and Stifle. He's just such a quick attacker in the Tempo deck. I think this deck deserves more attention, it's been rolling people in my testing.
What I don't get is why you would want to run Zoo's second fastest threat which also requires you to warp your manabase over its fastest threat. I've been running a Bant Zoo list with Steppe Lynx for a while now and it's one of the most fun decks I've ever played. This was before Mental Misstep though, I haven't played it since the printing of Mental Misstep. Actually I think that with Mental Misstep, I'm going to move the Force Of Wills to the sideboard. This was my list:
//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland
//Creatures
2 Knight Of The Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rhox War Monk
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Tarmogoyf
//Other Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Preordain
4 Swords To Plowshares
//Sideboard
2 Ethersorn Canonist
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Karakas
4 Path To Exile
4 Spell Pierce
The sideboard was actually pretty cool; I had my hatepieces for combo and control matchups and I had kind of a transformational plan with Green Sun's Zenith, opting for a more midrange plan postboard.
You can pull awesome tempo moves with this deck via Noble Hierarch and Wasteland or simply beat face with Steppe Lynx and Tarmogoyf.
I'm toying with this idea as well for a casual deck...a couple of questions for you:
1) Do you miss Lightning Bolt or Grim Lavamancer? It seems like they would be good in here.
2) Would you play Meddling Mage in this list?
3) Would you consider a domain approach with Bob and Tribal Flames?
Thanks!
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
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