[Deck] Blue Zoo

[troopatroop]

Very nice lists, but I like the Badlands with some amount of Grim Lavamancer. I also like the 1 GSZ 1 Ooze... techy! Nimble Mongoose seems as strong as ever, also...

[nolink]

Lands(19)
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strands
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Plateau

Creatures (21)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Vexing Devil
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
2 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (20)
4 Path to Exile
4 Brainstorm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire//Ice
1 Lightning Helix

the above was a 5c zoo i posted back in a couple of months ago. it was tweaked from a 4c zoo list, by:

-4 inquisition of kozilek
-4 dark confidant
-4 vexing devil
-1 lightning helix
+1 grim lavamancer
+4 spellstutter sprite
+4 daze
+4 force of will
+ the changes in composition of duals and fetches.

i have a question: in paper, grim lavamancer will not work well with nimble mongoose. thats my rationale to not include it in the original list. anyone tried including both in a same deck before? and how does it fare?

[ajfennewald]

I have tweaked my deck slightly and I think I am close to what I am going to take to SCG KC
like this
4 scalding tarn
3 wooded foothills
2 misty rain forest
1 arid mesa
2 tropical island
2 volcanic island
1 taiga
1 savannah
1 tundra
1 plateau
1 badlands
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 FOW
3 daze
4 bolt
1 fire//ice
1 chain lighting
4 tribal flames
2 green sun’s zenith
1 grim lavamancer
1 nimble mongoose
3 goyf
1 ooze
4 delver
4 nacalt
Sb
3 crypt
3 vortex
1 grip
1 pridemage
1 teeg
3 path
1 grim lavamancer
1 karakas
1 ooze

2 green sun's zenith adds alot to the decks flexibility both in the main and in sideboarding. I moved away from sbing spell peirce since it can be pretty ackward to leave up blue in the early turns. My burn count has gotten a little on the low side (though tribal contributes significant reach even with only 10 burn spells) but not sure what I would cut. Grim and Goose in the same main is a bit awkward but I think worth it to have effectively 3 mongoose game one vs control.

[troopatroop]

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Brainstorm
4 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
4 Force of Will

2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tundra

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest



I'm not a fan of Tribal Flames. Also, Goblin Guide is very good against the "turn 3" combo decks in my findings. I often lead with Trop -> Nacatl, so if I fetch turn 2 for a Plateau and play Goblin Guide, I can Spell Pierce their Swords to Plowshares, or w/e they play that turn. The deck also rocks 6 free counters, so you're very strong against most combo decks. I find the higher creature count to be great in the more grindy matchups, and probably only a liability against Maverick. I think this decklist gives you a good shot in most legacy matchups.

[Curby]

So it trades the extra library manipulation (Ponders, etc.) and disruption (more counters, Wasteland) of RUG for more creatures and arguably a weaker manabase. It's an interesting hybrid between RUG and Zoo, whereas recent successful Zoo decks have been hybrids between Zoo and Maverick (with maindeck hatebears galore).

If you get a chance to try it out in competitive play, let us know how it does!

[ajfennewald]

It seems like your delver flips will not be the greatest with only 21 spells and 0 ponders. I do like spell peirce more in your list than mine (the way my land base is configuired keeping up blue early can be ackward). I have played with goblin guild at times and never been super exited by it (but I think I like it better in your deck with a higher creature count). As for grindy matchups it kinda depends you did sacrifice some burn count to get your creature count so high. In my experience grindy matchups often come to top decking burn at some point. I know my burn count is only 10 vs your 7, however with 4 additional cantrips it is effectivly higher. Also tribal flames can be awesome in long matches as it often hits for the full 5.

[Gui]

Wow, shouldn't this deck be under Estabilished?

[ajfennewald]

Probebly. It has a way higher ev vs the field than most of the decks in the established section. At least my version has similiar matchups to RUG so a similar ev.

[troopatroop]

It's interesting, because the thing I noted most about Ponder in using it in Blue Zoo, is that whenever I cast it, I would always ask myself... " Would this be better as Goblin Guide?"... and "Could this be Goblin Guide with the lands I have"... and then usually... "WHY IS THIS NOT GOBLIN GUIDE".

Here's the gyst. This deck needs to apply pressure. Ponder, while fine, does not achieve what we desire. We want to play Nacatl/Delver/Guide turns 1-2, have all the right counters and burn, and win with little effort. Ponder is giving your opponent an inch, for an advantage we're not built to exploit. We don't want to give our opponent any time when we have the 12 strongest 1cc creatures in Legacy. Goyf to me is still an A+, giving Green a purpose in the deck beyond Wild Nacatl.

What I was missing, was not that I should cut Ponder for Guide, but was that Snapcaster Mage was almost always better as Ponder! (This is referring to Goblins mostly, because they just don't let you get to 3 mana) So instead of adding more Lands, I've cut 2 Snapcaster and 1 Spell Pierce for 3 Ponder. Looks like this...

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
4 Force of Will

2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tundra

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest

It fares nicely ;)


Oh, and this deck SHOULD be Established, I'm just lazy.... Do it up Ajfennewald!!

[Zirath]

It's interesting, because the thing I noted most about Ponder in using it in Blue Zoo, is that whenever I cast it, I would always ask myself... " Would this be better as Goblin Guide?"... and "Could this be Goblin Guide with the lands I have"... and then usually... "WHY IS THIS NOT GOBLIN GUIDE".

Here's the gyst. This deck needs to apply pressure. Ponder, while fine, does not achieve what we desire. We want to play Nacatl/Delver/Guide turns 1-2, have all the right counters and burn, and win with little effort. Ponder is giving your opponent an inch, for an advantage we're not built to exploit. We don't want to give our opponent any time when we have the 12 strongest 1cc creatures in Legacy. Goyf to me is still an A+, giving Green a purpose in the deck beyond Wild Nacatl.

What I was missing, was not that I should cut Ponder for Guide, but was that Snapcaster Mage was almost always better as Ponder! (This is referring to Goblins mostly, because they just don't let you get to 3 mana) So instead of adding more Lands, I've cut 2 Snapcaster and 1 Spell Pierce for 3 Ponder. Looks like this...

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
4 Force of Will

2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tundra

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest

It fares nicely ;)


Oh, and this deck SHOULD be Established, I'm just lazy.... Do it up Ajfennewald!!

I played almost this exact list a few weeks ago. I ran more Dazes, no Pierce (last card was a Chain Lightning) and Fireblast and PtE in place of Force of Will. The deck worked fairly well for me.

[Capt4in]

Disclaimer: I have nothing to contribute to this deck, as I play regular Zoo.

HOWEVER! In the tradition of excellent/ridiculous Legacy deck names (Such as TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst), I propose that this deck (and the OP) be changed to Hello Kitty Island Adventure, as the deck is, I believe, the only one in Legacy to play both kitties and islands.

Thank you for your time.

[baghdadbob]

Disclaimer: I have nothing to contribute to this deck, as I play regular Zoo.

HOWEVER! In the tradition of excellent/ridiculous Legacy deck names (Such as TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst), I propose that this deck (and the OP) be changed to Hello Kitty Island Adventure, as the deck is, I believe, the only one in Legacy to play both kitties and islands.

Thank you for your time.

OMG Yes!!!!!!!!

[Greenpoe]

HOWEVER! In the tradition of excellent/ridiculous Legacy deck names (Such as TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst), I propose that this deck (and the OP) be changed to Hello Kitty Island Adventure, as the deck is, I believe, the only one in Legacy to play both kitties and islands.

By this logic, Bant could've been named Hello Kitty Island Adventure years ago. (See Pridemage)

[ajfennewald]

I am refereing to the deck as Barney Stinsin (From how I met your mother) I do like Hello Kitty island adventure as well though.
I have made some attempts to adjust the deck for the current meta and this is what I have come up with.

10 fetch
2 trop
2 volc
2 taiga
1 tundra
1 plateau
1 savannah
4 force of will
3 daze
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 bolt
4 chain
4 fire//ice
3 grim
4 goyf
4 delver
4 nacatl
sb
3 submerge
3 k grip
3 tormods crypt
3 spell peirce
3 Price of progress

In the main deck I really like fire//ice for jund and elves which are popular now.similarly grim is very good there. I went with submerge over path because the decks I would really perfer path agsint (reanimator for example) are out of favor. Even though price of progress does alot of self damage we can get by fien on 2 lands and it hits BUG and Jund pretty hard. They will play right into it the first time.

[troopatroop]

3 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage

3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Fire//Ice

4 Wasteland

2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Wooded Foothills


My latest attempt. Hello Kitty Island Adventure is awesome, also! :D


I think Nimble Mongoose is much better than I gave it credit for at first. In playing it over Guide, and with Snapcaster over Grim Lavamancer, every single creature and spell outside of 4 Bolt/3Chain/2Fire/3 Stp is Blue or Green. This gives your manabase an instant upgrade, where you really only need Tropical Island to cast your spells! I've also found Snapcaster Mage to be good in every single matchup, whilest also smoothing out your mana plan by "buying back" your red and white removal spells, getting mileage out of your Plateau's. I'm glad people are starting to take this deck seriously finally, now that 4c Zoo/Bant is showing up in Modern.

[Kich867]

3 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage

3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Fire//Ice

4 Wasteland

2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Wooded Foothills


My latest attempt. Hello Kitty Island Adventure is awesome, also! :D


I think Nimble Mongoose is much better than I gave it credit for at first. In playing it over Guide, and with Snapcaster over Grim Lavamancer, every single creature and spell outside of 4 Bolt/3Chain/2Fire/3 Stp is Blue or Green. This gives your manabase an instant upgrade, where you really only need Tropical Island to cast your spells! I've also found Snapcaster Mage to be good in every single matchup, whilest also smoothing out your mana plan by "buying back" your red and white removal spells, getting mileage out of your Plateau's. I'm glad people are starting to take this deck seriously finally, now that 4c Zoo/Bant is showing up in Modern.

Could the plows be changed to +1 Chain Lightning, +2 Boros Charm, giving you rather substantial reach, or is getting rid of Tarmogoyf's and Knight's common enough to warrant swords?

[troopatroop]

I'm not sure why you really want Boros Charm here over STP. STP is here for Snapcaster Mage to deal with creatures indiscriminately. I would sooner play Azorius Charm I suppose ;p

The charms are certainly interesting, however. It's hard to determine if they're truly needed or not.

[Kich867]

It was more of an issue I saw a lot with the UR Delver lists, where despite the deck's rather explosive power, it often just durdles and doesn't do anything (running into too much counter-magic and not enough business). To me running swords over Path or more burn to the face seems to contribute to prolonging the game. It also opens you up to combat tricks and surviving things like Deed, EE, Verdict, etc.

But you play the deck so if plow seems right to you it probably is.

[Final Fortune]

It was more of an issue I saw a lot with the UR Delver lists, where despite the deck's rather explosive power, it often just durdles and doesn't do anything (running into too much counter-magic and not enough business). To me running swords over Path or more burn to the face seems to contribute to prolonging the game. It also opens you up to combat trickys and surviving things like Deed, EE, Verdict, etc.

But you play the deck so if plow seems right to you it probably is.

I'm not a fan of STP or PTE, both are counter productive compared to Dismember and unnecessarily expose us to Wasteland.

Snapcaster Mage and Grim Lavamancer are too mana intensive, what separates us from u/r is their resilience to Wasteland. If you want to play value cards, then I think you want to play Sylvan Library because it synergizes with Delver and turns STP into a 2 for 1.

Spell Pierce and Daze without Wasteland and with Goblin Guide is a nonbo if you want to play him aggressively, I think Force of Will and Spell Snare are enough permission MD.

[ajfennewald]

Troop Aren't there like 70 cards in your list. I go up to 61 sometimes but 70 seems a little much