[Deck] Blue Zoo

[troopatroop]

I'm sick and tired of people saying I warp my manabase. Have you even looked at it? Volcanic taps for blue! Plateau is the only "warp", but it says "have 7 cards in your grave now", casts Goyf/Kotr/Plow, and I only fetch it turn 2 against Combo. Steppe Lynx requires that you make land drops, and against Stax or Landstill or anything slow, you won't be able to do that mid-late game. Steppe Lynx was inconsistant for me, and caused lots of mulligans. Nacatl costs G and you're done caring about it.

Red is fine, but Grim Lavamancer is more awkward than you'd think. It's the only red permanent in the deck, making it somewhat awkward to need to cast turns 1-2. I cut it MD in the Red build for Vendilion Clique, which did what I wanted consistantly. Lightning Bolt is STP effectively, so I didn't miss it. I wouldn't play Meddling Mage, because he's a puny attacker. 2/2 for 2 doesn't cut it in a deck that's trying to win quickly, and he's really only effective against combo, who we crush.

Dark Confidant and Tribal Flames is interesting, but that deck is without a good 1 drop creature.

[Hanni]

Troop, now that Mental Misstep has been printed, I really think that this deck is the way to go for tempo aggro/control. Blue Zoo has a far more aggressive early game, meaning it can capitalize on the early tempo gains better than any of the other tempo aggro/control decks out there.

Denying the opponent from resolving any spells for the first 3-4 turns of the game is great in a classic Tempo Thresh shell, but that deck has to beat the opponent down with Mongoose and Goyf in the midgame, before the opponent can topdeck and stabilize. Sometimes it can, sometimes it cannot.

Gaining a bunch of tempo early game seems pointless if all you're doing with that tempo is spending the mana on cantrips, digging for a threat.

With Blue Zoo, the deck starts beating right from the get-go. This means it doesn't need to waste tempo digging with cantrips to find a threat, and it means that it worries alot less about an opponent stabilizing in the midgame because they're dead by then (or easily within burn range).

For Blue Zoo, I think the Stifle/Wasteland package needs to be dropped. The deck literally runs only 1 spell you ever plan on casting with colorless mana (Tarmogoyf), so Wasteland is rarely ever being used as an actual land. Stifle forces you to hold U open early, when you'd much rather be committing creatures to the board instead. All in all, I think that Stifle/Wasteland is just a bad package for Blue Zoo. Cutting it frees up a whole fuckton of design space.

I think the deck seriously needs at least 10 1cc creatures. From my experience with Sligh and Zoo, the most "nuts" starts are when the deck can go turn 1 critter, turn 2 two critters. With 10+ 1cc creatures, this deck can do the same thing. When you combine that with 12 free counterspells, so that the opponent cannot do anything about it, you have one massively scary deck.

I really think you need to be running Burn. Both Zoo and Canadian Thresh run it, and for good reason. Early game, burn kills just about every chump blocker that gets in your way. By midgame, it can be directed at the opponent's face to just win the game. The deck already has a ton of countermagic to keep bigger guys like opposing Goyf's off the board without needing StP, and even if a big Knight of the Reliquary does resolve, I think tossing burn at the opponent's face rather than giving them a whole bunch of life, is a better plan in a deck that's built around early game aggression.

Here's my proposed build:

U/R/g/w Blue Zoo

Lands (19)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Plateau

Creatures (15)
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Snare
4 Mental Misstep
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning

19 lands, with no Wastelands, and with 4 Brainstorm's, is plenty, even being 4c. The 13 fetchlands are absolutely amazing for this deck. Aside from their necessity for Steppe Lynx, they also make hitting the proper color sources in a 4c deck alot smoother. They fuel Grim Lavamancer much more effectively, and they make Brainstorm stronger.

I think Steppe Lynx is such a monster in a deck that can protect him during the first few turns of the game (when he's capable of putting out massive damage). With 4 Brainstorm and 4 Daze, the deck also has plenty of ways of keeping him going for more than just 1-2 turns. Even if he only can swing on turn 2 and 3 (for 8 damage), that's still all the mileage you really need out of him considering that the deck has a ton of other aggro and burn to fill in the remaining damage necessary to win.

7 burn spells and 3 Grim Lavamancer's give this deck amazing midgame reach, and plenty of ways of removing early blockers. Considering that MM-Merfolk appears to be one of the top decks right now, I think that this removal package is going to go a long way. Being in white, the deck still has access to Path to Exile if necessary (depending on metagame).

Well, that's all for now.

[troopatroop]

I like it alot Hanni, good work. I was too close to the deck to see that Stifle was wrong. 13 Fetches + Steppe Lynx is just... Wow. I also really like the "10" removal outlets, as Merfolk is a problem otherwise. I'll be testing it as soon as I get the chance to. Wasteland still grabs my attention.

[Hanni]

Oops, I totally forgot how important Plateau is for enabling turn 2 3/3 Nacatl's. -1 Tundra +1 Plateau. I'll edit my above decklist.

Wasteland still grabs my attention.

Trying to fit Wasteland into a 4c deck that has only 1 card you can ever actually use the colorless mana on*, just seems greedy. Why try to disrupt the opponent's manabase if you can just counter whatever they are gonna play, while smashing face and flinging burn? In a 3c aggro/control deck like New Horizons, Tempo Thresh, and Team America... sure. In 4c Blue Zoo? You have better things to be doing than attacking their manabase.

*I realize both Daze and Force of Will can be cast with colorless mana, but that's not something that's going to happen often enough to make the colorless mana from Wasteland relevant.

EDIT: To elaborate further on Wasteland:

You have too many other important things to be doing. You need too many color sources early to really use Wasteland early. You want blue on turn 1, along with green (Nacatl), white (Lynx), or red (Lavamancer). On turn two, you need all 4 colors for Nacatl, and you're likely going to want at least 3 different colors on turn 2, for either a Lynx start or Lavamancer start (depending on your hand).

By the time you get past the heavy demand on color sources, and assuming you don't need additional ones because of opposing Stifle/Wasteland's, you'd rather be focusing on countering spells, dropping guys and smashing face, and/or burning out blockers/burning the opponent's face. Adding another unrelated disruption element to the deck is only going to dilute the focus of the primary elements, which all seem alot more important if you ask me.

[troopatroop]

Noted, and I realized the Plateau was missing as well :P It's GREAT in that build. IMS for Lynx, Lavamancer mana, 7 Burn Spells!

The real challenge of this deck is working the mana. There's only 2 Green sources for Nacatl/Goyf, but white sources are just as important to Steppe Lynx. I'd be tempted to cut a Fetch for a Trop, because getting them both wasted hurts, but white sources are more important turn 1.

Tricky stuff! If the mana flows easy, the deck wins easy. If it doesn't, you tend to die to yourself. It's a good start though, Blue + Cats ftw.

[Hanni]

Noted, and I realized the Plateau was missing as well :P It's GREAT in that build. IMS for Lynx, Lavamancer mana, 7 Burn Spells!

The real challenge of this deck is working the mana. There's only 2 Green sources for Nacatl/Goyf, but white sources are just as important to Steppe Lynx. I'd be tempted to cut a Fetch for a Trop, because getting them both wasted hurts, but white sources are more important turn 1.

Tricky stuff! If the mana flows easy, the deck wins easy. If it doesn't, you tend to die to yourself. It's a good start though, Blue + Cats ftw.

Yea, Plateau is mandatory for turn 2 Nacatl's beats. :p

Yes, working the mana is important. Luckily, having 13 fetchlands makes it alot easier, since you have alot more control over getting the right color sources.

2 green sources should be fine. With 12 fetches grabbing them, that's 14 virtual green sources, which makes accessing green pretty easy. If both get Wasted, it does shut down further green doods, but if you're fetching green in the first place, it means you're casting something green that turn. If the deck sticks a Nacatl or a Goyf, and the Trop gets wasted, you still have another Trop. If you fetch the 2nd Trop to cast another green dood, you shouldn't need the third green source. Plus, if they use 2 Wastelands to lock you out of green, that means you still have access to red and white. Since you've already cast 2 green doods anyway, chances are far greater that you'll be wanting to cast red spells.

Luckily, the color splashes are pretty light. The deck only plays 4 white spells, 8 green spells, and 10 red spells. Yes, it wants more white and red for Nacatl, but the splashes are still pretty light, especially white.

For the record, even though the deck is fetch heavy/dual light and 4c, the manabase is still pretty solid. I have alot of experience with this sort of manabase, because I used to (and still do) play 3c Naya Sligh alot. My Naya Sligh build runs 20 lands: 14 fetches, 4 duals, and 2 Mountains. This deck runs 19 lands, a 4th color, and no basics, but it also plays Brainstorm and a boatload of free countermagic to compensate.

Also, as far as opposing Wastelands are concerned: if your opponent's are focusing on attacking your manabase rather than addressing the real problem (fast beats, free countermagic, and burn), you're probably going to win that one anyway.

Compare opposing Wastelands used against normal Zoo: the real issue is dealing with their creatures.

The same philosophy applies here: if you're fetching a dual, it's because you're casting something with it. If they then Wasteland that land, the mana has already been spent to cast that spell. If they are spending their mana (Wasteland) destroying your mana, rather than answering the spell you cast, that's a good thing.

EDIT: Just wanted to say that I think this deck will quickly become a DTB with the current metagame, if this deck ever catches on. It is such a huge improvement to regular Zoo and Tempo Threshold, and absolutely demolishes Merfolk. It's far stronger against control decks than both regular Zoo and Tempo Threshold, and it should have a much better mirror match against other tempo aggro/control decks because it capitalizes on the early game tempo gains far better than any of the other ones do. The deck is also so dense in 1cc spells, and runs its own playset of Mental Misstep's, that it should be positioned much better against opposing Mental Misstep's than other similar decks.

Also, I'm going to playtest this deck a bunch. If I do end up finding Steppe Lynx to be lackluster (although I doubt it), Kird Ape/Loam Lion are suitable replacements.

Lastly, I'm hopefully going to figure out (during testing) what cards should be included in the sideboard. I can think of a ton of good options right now, so we'll see which ones shine the best.

A quick incomplete list:

Meddling Mage
Thrun, the Last Troll
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Krosan Grip
Qasali Pridemage
Red Elemental Blast
Blue Elemental Blast
Pithing Needle
Path to Exile
Submerge
Umezawa's Jitte

[Hanni]

What a great first match...

Whillo's Security Code: EB1AD3EE [???]
Hanni's Security Code: BB614D92 [Type 1.5]
It is now turn 1 (Whillo)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
<Hanni> hello
Hanni rolled a 11, using a 20 sided die
Hanni shuffles library
Whillo shuffles library
Whillo shuffles library
Whillo draws 7 cards
Whillo rolled a 17, using a 20 sided die
Hanni draws 7 cards
<Whillo> kp
<Hanni> kp
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Whillo plays Vault of Whispers from Hand
<Whillo> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (Hanni)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Hanni draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
<Hanni> Thinking
Hanni plays Flooded Strand from Hand
Hanni puts Flooded Strand to Graveyard from Play
Hanni's life total is now 19 (-1)
Hanni is looking its Library...
Hanni puts Tundra into play from Library
Hanni shuffles library
Hanni stops looking its Library...
Hanni taps Tundra
Hanni plays Steppe Lynx from Hand
<Hanni> Ok?
<Whillo> Ok
<Hanni> End my turn
It is now turn 3 (Whillo)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Whillo untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Whillo draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Whillo plays Ancient Tomb from Hand
Whillo plays Chrome Mox from Hand
Whillo puts Hurkyl's Recall to RFG from Hand
Chrome Mox's note changed: Blue
Whillo taps Vault of Whispers
Whillo taps Ancient Tomb
Whillo taps Chrome Mox
Whillo's life total is now 18 (-2)
Whillo plays Lodestone Golem from Hand
<Whillo> Ok?
Hanni plays Daze from Hand
Hanni puts Tundra to Hand from Play
Whillo puts Lodestone Golem to Graveyard from Play
Hanni puts Daze to Graveyard from Play
<Whillo> End my turn
It is now turn 4 (Hanni)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Hanni draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Hanni plays Flooded Strand from Hand
Hanni puts Flooded Strand to Graveyard from Play
Hanni's life total is now 18 (-1)
Hanni is looking its Library...
Hanni puts Tropical Island into play from Library
Hanni shuffles library
Hanni stops looking its Library...
Steppe Lynx is now 4/5
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Hanni taps Steppe Lynx
Hanni taps Steppe Lynx
Whillo's life total is now 14 (-4)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
Hanni taps Tropical Island
Hanni plays Wild Nacatl from Hand
<Hanni> End my turn
It is now turn 5 (Whillo)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Whillo untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Whillo draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Whillo plays City of Traitors from Hand
Steppe Lynx is now 0/1
Whillo plays Lotus Petal from Hand
<Whillo> Thinking
Whillo taps Chrome Mox
Whillo taps Vault of Whispers
Whillo plays Thoughtcast from Hand
<Hanni> Ok
Whillo draws a card
Whillo draws a card
Whillo puts Thoughtcast to Graveyard from Play
Whillo taps Ancient Tomb
Whillo taps City of Traitors
Whillo's life total is now 12 (-2)
Whillo puts Lodestone Golem into play from Graveyard
<Whillo> Ok?
<Hanni> Ok
<Whillo> End my turn
It is now turn 6 (Hanni)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
Hanni untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Hanni draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Hanni plays Scalding Tarn from Hand
Hanni puts Scalding Tarn to Graveyard from Play
Hanni's life total is now 17 (-1)
Hanni is looking its Library...
Hanni puts Plateau into play from Library
Hanni shuffles library
Hanni stops looking its Library...
Steppe Lynx is now 4/5
Wild Nacatl is now 3/3
Hanni taps Tropical Island
Hanni taps Plateau
Hanni plays Lightning Bolt from Hand
Whillo puts Lodestone Golem to Graveyard from Play
Hanni puts Lightning Bolt to Graveyard from Play
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
Hanni taps Steppe Lynx
Hanni taps Wild Nacatl
Hanni taps Steppe Lynx
Hanni taps Wild Nacatl
Whillo's life total is now 5 (-7)
It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
<Hanni> End my turn
It is now turn 7 (Whillo)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Whillo untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Whillo draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Steppe Lynx is now 0/1
Whillo taps City of Traitors
Whillo taps Vault of Whispers
Whillo plays Metalworker from Hand
<Hanni> Ok
Whillo taps Chrome Mox
Whillo puts Thoughtcast into play from Graveyard
Whillo draws a card
Whillo draws a card
Whillo puts Thoughtcast to Graveyard from Play
Whillo plays Vault of Whispers from Hand
Whillo puts City of Traitors to Graveyard from Play
Whillo taps Lotus Petal
Whillo taps Ancient Tomb
Whillo puts Lotus Petal to Graveyard from Play
Whillo is looking its Library...
Whillo plays Fabricate from Hand
<Hanni> -2
Whillo's life total is now 3 (-2)
<Hanni> Ok
<Hanni> resolves
Whillo puts Mycosynth Lattice into play from Library
Whillo shuffles library
Whillo stops looking its Library...
Whillo puts Mycosynth Lattice to Hand from Play
Whillo puts Fabricate to Graveyard from Play
Whillo taps Metalworker
Whillo reveals a Caltrops
Whillo reveals a Mycosynth Golem
Whillo reveals a Mycosynth Golem
Whillo reveals a Mycosynth Lattice
Whillo plays Mycosynth Lattice from Hand
<Hanni> didnt he
<Hanni> just come into play?
<Whillo> last turn
<Whillo> i didn't block
Whillo puts Hurkyl's Recall into play from RFG
<Hanni> i could have sworn
<Hanni> u just cast him
Whillo is now the controller of Steppe Lynx
Whillo is now the controller of Tropical Island
Whillo is now the controller of Wild Nacatl
Whillo is now the controller of Plateau
Whillo puts Plateau to Hand from Play
Whillo puts Steppe Lynx to Hand from Play
Whillo puts Tropical Island to Hand from Play
Whillo puts Wild Nacatl to Hand from Play
Whillo puts Hurkyl's Recall to Graveyard from Play
<Hanni> yea dude
<Whillo> End my turn
Whillo hides card in hand
Whillo hides card in hand
Whillo hides card in hand
<Hanni> u just cast metalworker
<Hanni> this tunr
<Hanni> i scrolled up
<Hanni> turn*
It is now turn 8 (Hanni)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
<Hanni> sorry to burst ur bubble
<Hanni> please dont cheat
<Hanni> scroll up
<Whillo> 30 seconds
It is now turn 9 (Whillo)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Whillo untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Whillo draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Whillo taps Metalworker
<Hanni> ....
Whillo reveals a Caltrops
Whillo reveals a Mycosynth Golem
Whillo reveals a Mycosynth Golem
Whillo taps Vault of Whispers
Whillo plays Dark Ritual from Hand
<Hanni> ur not listening to me
Whillo puts Dark Ritual to Graveyard from Play
<Whillo> Thinking
<Hanni> ur metalworker was cast this turn
<Hanni> and then u tapped him
Whillo plays Mycosynth Golem from Hand
Whillo plays Caltrops from Hand
<Hanni> he does not have haste
Whillo plays Mycosynth Golem from Hand
<Hanni> u fucking noob
<Whillo> End my turn
<Hanni> i win
It is now turn 10 (Hanni)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
<Hanni> goodbye cheater
<Whillo> rage quit
<System> Session Lost
<System> Disconnected

I guess he literally had to cheat, since he was dead next turn if he didn't... Plus, I didn't even realize that he cheated before that when he played the 2nd Lodestone Golem. I wasn't paying attention and thought he had another one, but apparently he played it from his graveyard.

However, that's a VERY impressive win on my part. That's what, a turn 4 win? And I'm running 15 countermagic spells... :)

EDIT: Next up was Goblins, which I went 2-1. Game one he went first and had the nuts. A turn 1 Vial that I didn't have an answer to. I did some good early damage, but he ended up stabilizing with Ringleader into SGC into Ringleader into Matron into SGC and he just had too many chump blockers for me to push through. He had Gempalm for my Grim Lavamancer (the one matchup where I wish I had Stifle), and the lord pump from Chieftan was too much. Games 2 and 3 were total blowouts, with me clocking him fast as hell and him never getting or keeping anything on the board.

EDIT 2: So many edits! Still undefeated on MWS (not saying much).

Just wanted to point out that the Steppe Lynx version is very explosive, but does suffer from consistency issues sometimes, with both the manabase, and the damage dealt by Steppe Lynx. I'm enjoying the explosiveness, especially the turn 4 wins, but I think swapping out Steppe Lynx for Kird Ape is a viable alternative. Kird Ape allows the manabase to become much more stable, allowing the deck to cut a fetch and the Tundra to go up to 3 Trops and either 3 Volcs or 2 Plateau's. Also, he's a more consistent damage dealer than Steppe Lynx. I like both options and I'm going to test both to determine which one I think is better overall.

[Uncoordinated]

I just played that guy too! Surprisingly, he actually beat me, then declined to play a second game, citing the fact that he "doesn't play homosexuals". Back to back Mass Calcify owns nonwhite.

Anyway, I don't think Lavamancer is really needed. Zoo is supposed to be strong against other tribal types, which is what Lavamancer excels against. We could just board in more removal or stick him in the board in place of removal if we want him.

[luckme10]

Hanni that list is the closest I've ever seen to saying F-U to mental misstep....Like the kid that wouldn't eat peas so the mother fed him nothing but peas until he gave in... Anyways, the MWS log was really amusing. I'd be curious to see how this deck matches up against cat sligh or standard zoo decks, in a non cheating fashion?

[Hanni]

I just played that guy too! Surprisingly, he actually beat me, then declined to play a second game, citing the fact that he "doesn't play homosexuals". Back to back Mass Calcify owns nonwhite.

I bet if you went back and checked the MWS log, and really looked at it, you'd find him doing something illegal that you didn't catch. In my game with him, he cheated twice and then skipped my turn at the end of the match after I called him out on cheating.

Anyway, I don't think Lavamancer is really needed. Zoo is supposed to be strong against other tribal types, which is what Lavamancer excels against. We could just board in more removal or stick him in the board in place of removal if we want him.

Grim Lavamancer is a total friggin house. Most Zoo decks play him. The only Zoo deck I don't play him in is Cat Sligh, because he's too slow, but I also don't play Tarmogoyf in Cat Sligh either (because he's also too slow).

In this deck, Lavamancer is absolutely amazing. He's a 1 drop, which is great for curve reasons. Secondly, he's the only form of card advantage that the deck has. Thirdly, he smashes up on small aggro (Merfolk, Goblins, etc... which are all Tier 1). Lastly, he gives the deck excellent midgame reach against various decks, especially once the ground gets clogged. I wouldn't cut him after my limited testing with him... he's the second best creature in the deck (Wild Nacatl being the first).

Hanni that list is the closest I've ever seen to saying F-U to mental misstep....Like the kid that wouldn't eat peas so the mother fed him nothing but peas until he gave in... Anyways, the MWS log was really amusing. I'd be curious to see how this deck matches up against cat sligh or standard zoo decks, in a non cheating fashion?

When I run into some, I'll let you know.

On an unrelated note, here's the new list I'm going to try to playtest. It has a far more stable manabase, and Kird Ape is a less explosive but more consistent damage dealer than Steppe Lynx:

U/R/G/w Blue Zoo

// Lands (18)
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [R] Volcanic Island
2 [R] Tropical Island
2 [R] Taiga
1 [R] Plateau
1 [R] Savannah

// Creatures (16)
4 [R] Kird Ape
3 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

// Spells (26)
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [NPH] Mental Misstep
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
3 [LG] Chain Lightning

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 1 [DIS] Spell Snare
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge
SB: 2 [R] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 2 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [FNM] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll

EDIT: I was bored at work, so I decided to contemplate my playtesting session with my previous build (Steppe Lynx version), and theorize on ways to improve it. In my playtesting, literally 90% of my matchups were playing 4 Wasteland. While I was capable of squeezing out wins against most of them, it was sometimes difficult. Against a 4-Wasteland format, I would most definitely play the Kird Ape version instead.

However, the manabase I initially posted for the Kird Ape version was just thrown together. It took me a while to evaluate the amount of spells per color, dependancy on what color mana (and when), what duals I would most likely fetch first and then second, given a ton of various sample hands. I finally decided on a config that I feel is very solid. I'm going to edit my decklist above to reflect my changes.

EDIT 2: No love for this deck eh? Anyway, I've been logging some more more hours into playtesting with this deck. It seems like the only real worrisome matchup is midrange, like The Rock and such.

The Meddling Mages in the sideboard seem to be overkill; I've stomped several combo players without them now, fairly easy. With 15 countermagic spells in the maindeck and a clock as fast as Zoo (turn 4-5), the deck really doesn't need much extra hate. The Blasts in the board can come in against High Tide decks and other combo decks playing blue, and so I've cut the 4 Mages for the 4th Snare to free up some room.

With the extra room, I think Umezawa's Jitte is exactly what the deck needs against midrange decks. Turning Kird Apes and Nacatl's into bigger guys is pretty good stuff, and Jitte is pretty good against Goblins too. The deck has more than enough able bodies to wear it.

I also did some minor tweaks, like cut 2 Qasali for 2 Krosan Grip, and 1 Submerge for 2 Path to Exile.

For the maindeck, with the much more stable manabase now (with Kird Ape instead of Steppe Lynx), I'm getting consistent color sources early. However, with 19 lands and 4 Brainstorm in a deck with mostly 1cc and free spells, I'm running into issues with mana flood by the mid game. This deck really only needs 2-3 lands to operate at peak effeciency, and since it's designed around 1-for-1 trades, a land flood in the mid is killer. I've decided to cut the land count down to 18, and add a singleton Vendilion Clique. That takes my blue spell count up to 20 for FoW, my creature count up to 16, and gives me a decent evasive finisher.

I'll update my decklist above with these current changes.

Other than the occassional midrange aggro matchup (which I've still won quite a few of), this deck has been very sick in playtesting. Absolutely love it. Thanks for the idea, Troop!

[troopatroop]

Other than the occassional midrange aggro matchup (which I've still won quite a few of), this deck has been very sick in playtesting. Absolutely love it. Thanks for the idea, Troop!

Hah, This is what I come back to! Lol, I've just gotten a new puppy to take all my attention, but yeah! Kurtis Droge deserves the acclaim really, because Tropical Island -> Nacatl was his idea first. Kird Ape isn't as explosive as Lynx, but I think that the mana stability is paramount. Theres nothing worse than opening with a Tropical + Volcanic and being unable to cast Lynx. He blocks better against Merfolk + Goblins as well, which this deck does care about. I like your most recent list.

You might want to experiment with cutting the Red base (Lavamancer + Bolts) in order to accomidate for the Lynx. You always have Loam Lion I suppose, but Grim Lavamancer is nut high is some matchups. Just some food for thought! :D

[Hanni]

You might want to experiment with cutting the Red base (Lavamancer + Bolts) in order to accomidate for the Lynx. You always have Loam Lion I suppose, but Grim Lavamancer is nut high is some matchups. Just some food for thought! :D

No need, really. The Kird Ape version has been vastly superior in playtesting, and I'd rather dedicate my time improving it rather than trying to improve the Lynx version.

[Final Fortune]

Considering Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile have disynergy with Lightning Bolts, Chain Lighting and Daze respectively, what do you think about Dismember? It only fails to eliminate Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore and robots, and it's colorless removal that's uncounterable vs. Mental Misstep, Chalice of the Void and resistant vs. Counterbalance. I replaced Path to Exile with Dismember in Zoo and really liked not giving my opponent card advantage, and considering this deck is already pushing its manabase I think it's worth a shot.

[Sea R Hill]

Your blue card count is really low, and there seem to be no card I want to pitch to Fow, so maybe cut FoW?
Or you could play Fire & Ice, which up you blue card count and give you one more swing with your critters when you play Ice on their Tarmogoyf/KotR.

[kinda]

Your blue card count is really low, and there seem to be no card I want to pitch to Fow, so maybe cut FoW?
Or you could play Fire & Ice, which up you blue card count and give you one more swing with your critters when you play Ice on their Tarmogoyf/KotR.

The whole point is to play the best 1 drop creature and the best protection spell in the game together. I'm not opposed to fire//ice though...but a lot of people find it underwhelming.

Edit: This was my stab at nacatl+force a while ago. The war monks were a concession to the blue issue...but now we have mental misstep! I'm not sure why I didn't add grim lavamancer.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ht=#post439791

I want to test my first list -3 monk/-4 Steppe Lynx/-4 Path and +4 mental misstep/+3 grim lavamancer/+4 Bolt

[Sea R Hill]

As for the mana base, I have one question.
Why play Taïga?

When you go 1st turn Trop, Nacatl, you want to fetch a Plateau.
But if you go 1st turn Taïga, Nacatl, you then want to fetch a Tundra that you don't play
...

Same thing for Kird ape.
When you go 1st turn Volc, Kird Ape, you want to fetch a Savannah.
But if you go 1st turn Taïga, Kird Ape, you then want to fetch a Tundra again...

If you want your blue land out first for Daze or cantripping or Spell Snare, why fetch a Taïga that bring only one colour to the table?


If you think about it, not playing Taïga also is better for the fetch manabase. You can play Flooded Strand.

For example:
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn

[DragoFireheart]

I liked this deck idea a lot. I've always loved combining red burn with blue counter and beats. However, the blue count seems very low. Anyways to fix that? Also, can more information be given on the merfolk matchup?

Keep up the good work Hanni and troopatroop!

[Hanni]

Considering Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile have disynergy with Lightning Bolts, Chain Lighting and Daze respectively, what do you think about Dismember? It only fails to eliminate Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore and robots, and it's colorless removal that's uncounterable vs. Mental Misstep, Chalice of the Void and resistant vs. Counterbalance. I replaced Path to Exile with Dismember in Zoo and really liked not giving my opponent card advantage, and considering this deck is already pushing its manabase I think it's worth a shot.

I have not wanted Dismember at all in testing, but I'll keep the idea in mind.

Your blue card count is really low, and there seem to be no card I want to pitch to Fow, so maybe cut FoW?
Or you could play Fire & Ice, which up you blue card count and give you one more swing with your critters when you play Ice on their Tarmogoyf/KotR.

Who's list are you talking about? I haven't looked at Troops, but my list has 20 blue spells. 20 blue spells is more than enough to support Force of Will.

As for the mana base, I have one question.
Why play Taïga?

When you go 1st turn Trop, Nacatl, you want to fetch a Plateau.
But if you go 1st turn Taïga, Nacatl, you then want to fetch a Tundra that you don't play

Because Taiga produces green and red, which are both very valuable colors. The deck primarily wants blue, red, and green. The deck already has 2 of each blue dual, and so the next best dual becomes Taiga. Taiga may not help faciliate white for Nacatl, but I only run 4 Nacatl, Nacatl is the only preboard spell that requires white, and white is not necessary to cast/attack with Nacatl.

The deck also has 10 fetchlands to make sure I get the right colors when I need them. Sometimes, I'll have a hand with only Misstep and Force of Will, where I don't need to immediately fetch blue; sometimes my hand is heavy with green and red spells, aka a Zoo-heavy draw. The deck doesn't actually need to fetch white that often.

If I have a hand with Kird Ape and Tarmogoyf (no Nacatl), I usually go turn 1 Volcanic Island, turn 2 Taiga. This makes sure I still have a red source if the opponent has a Wasteland, which is arguably my most important color. My third fetchland can always grab a white source later if I need it.

If I do go first turn Nacatl, it's not that hard for me to go turn 1 Tropical Island, turn 2 Plateau. What land would I want next, after Trop Island and Plateau (assuming Plateau isn't getting Wasted)? Either Volcanic Island or Taiga, depending on my hand.

The only thing I can really say about Taiga is to simply test it. If it doesn't work for you, change it. However, it works for me.

If you want your blue land out first for Daze or cantripping or Spell Snare, why fetch a Taïga that bring only one colour to the table?

Because with the heavy fetchland count, it's not hard to grab a blue dual first, and the appropriate second dual.

What needs to be kept in mind is the importance of the color sources for this deck. If you cut Taiga, you're cutting 2 green sources and 2 red sources. For what? If you go tossing more blue duals in instead, you're raising the blue land count at the cost of green sources or the cost of red sources. The manabase is very balanced right now.

I had already considered and playtested with Flooded Strand and more blue duals before, and I switched to Taiga's after realizing how much more stable they make my manabase.

I liked this deck idea a lot. I've always loved combining red burn with blue counter and beats. However, the blue count seems very low. Anyways to fix that? Also, can more information be given on the merfolk matchup?

1 Vendilion Clique
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Misstep
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

That's 20 blue spells. How is that very low?

[Sea R Hill]

The only thing I can really say about Taiga is to simply test it. If it doesn't work for you, change it. However, it works for me.

Well I've tried it today and I'm not satisfied..
If you don't care about your Nacatl being only 2/2 that's ok, but in that case I'd strongly recommend you to run Skyshroud Elite instead of Wild Nacatl.

If I have a hand with Kird Ape and Tarmogoyf (no Nacatl), I usually go turn 1 Volcanic Island, turn 2 Taiga. This makes sure I still have a red source if the opponent has a Wasteland, which is arguably my most important color.

It is right that red is the most important colour. But in that very case, I'd go for Taïga first, in order to let my oppponent think I don't play blue.

That's 20 blue spells. How is that very low?

20 blue spells is really low for FoW.

Anyway, after some testing I really don't like Spell Snare. You never want to keep U open for countering their turn 2, this is a huge tempo loss. But waht blue card could we play instead? Ponder maybe, although I'd run a maximum of 2 Ponders (they would really be usefull for the midgame in that deck, and after sideboarding for finding hate).




I also really don't like your sideboard (well that is a lot of criticizm I know, but it's because I think the deck is great and I might play it ;) ).
Path is horrible, it makes your Daze very weak. With the clock of this deck, I think I'd never want PtE instead of Submerge.
Thrun is really expensive, and I don't think it is needed to beat Control.
I don't know what the K-Grip are here for, its is expensive and there is no artifact you want to get rid of.

I'd run sthg like that:

3 REB
3 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Relic of progenitus
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Jitte/Qasali

[troopatroop]

A very informative, and well thought out post.

Well done. You explained it beautifully. I've been playing with Kird Ape, and he makes the manabase much more elegant.

16 Blue spells is the minimum for Fow, and 14 has worked for Eldrazi-Post (but not really). Conditional counters in MM and SS make FoW really attractive, and you can't deny the power of the card. Bant won a GP without it, but its plan doesn't revolve around 1 drops.

Oh, and everyone is way too scared of Mental Misstep. Play Tarmogoyf.