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Thread: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

  1. #1
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    Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    Alright,

    As a budget player, I am inclined to asked what exactly are the pros and cons between the two.

    The way I see it, When you make your next land drop, City of Traitors will disappear anyways. However with Crystal Vein, you have the option on whether using its 2-mana ability (and sacrificing the land) or 1-mana ability (which will keep it in play in the long run)

    Also, which decks would fit which one better?

    Thanks
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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    In decks that run City of Traitors, Crystal Vein is almost always worse. The only time it is better is if you really don't plan on using that 2 mana ability until after you've tapped it for 1 mana 3+ times.

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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    For a stompy player, the dreaded hand of:

    1 City of Traitors
    2-3 2cmc spells
    3-4 other spells (3cmc or higher)

    is always a question whether to keep or no. When making such a decision, you really want to ask:

    1) How much tempo gain can I get with this unstable land?
    2) What happens if he has Wasteland immediately after I used my City and not drawn a land?
    3) How much tempo loss do I get with this land when it's wasted?

    From experience, I usually keep such hands if 1) gives me a ton of tempo e.g. playing Chalice@1, following up with a 2cmc threat, 2) I know that the tempo gain from 1) offsets the risk of not drawing land from having Wasted. Note that in my particular stompy deck (steel stompy), I run 23 lands, which allows me to have a higher chance of drawing lands, therefore the tempo gain from 1) is usually risk the Wasteland hitting my City.

    All in all, even assuming you drew a hand of 2 lands (1 City, 1 non Sol-land), having the City makes it ages better than Crystal Vein. Being able to lead off with a 2cmc spell on turn 1 to turn 3, and then playing the land to sac City to hit 3 mana to follow up with a next spell, gives a huge ton of tempo that Stompy needs to combat decks playing better cards. E.g. If I had a hand of;

    City of Traitors, Inkmoth Nexus, Seat of Synod, Chalice of the Void, Steel Overseer, Etched Champion, Phyrexian Revoker, I would with no question go:
    1) City->Chalice
    2) Do not play a land drop -> Overseer
    3) Either play Inkmoth and play Revoker saccing City and pump inkmoth to 2/2 with Overseer, or play Etched Champion with Inkmoth

    If City of Traitors was Crystal Vein, you would almost always be a turn slower:
    1) Inkmoth pass turn
    2) play another land, Chalice
    3) play Overseer/Revoker/Champion

    Despite hating City of Traitors most of the time, if your opponents do not Wasteland it, you are having the best Sol-land in the format (no damage), and knowing how to play with City will power out your spells much faster. A lot of players use City wrong, and are always tempted to make land drops to set up for future turns, but sometimes it's more critical to think if not making that land-drop greatly increases your tempo/board development by dumping your hand out. If your opponents do wasteland your City, then it's a tempo trade. They've lost a land drop for the turn, your City was going to die anyway, but you've made a bunch of plays with City. If you played wrong, then you probably lost tempo, so knowing what hands to keep is the most important.
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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    You get to use City of Traitors for two turns, which makes it infinitely better than Crystal Vein in decks that run the sol lands.

  5. #5

    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    Turn one Chalice @ 1, turn two Revoker/Overseer...

    Turn one Ancient Tomb>Lightning Greaves, turn two City>Lodestone Golem, Turn 3 any land>Forgemaster or Sol-land>Wurmcoil

    Vein just can't do the crazy things City can pull off.

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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    I was using all three for an all-in artifact recursion deck. It actually increased my odds of comboing out T1/T2. If you deck is a glass cannon and you don't really care where you get the 2 mana from, they are basically on equal ground. I think the question you really need to ask is exactly how much mana do you need to produce by what turn and for how long. Those questions will pretty much push you toward one or two of the three cards or all three in my case.

    Similar questions for cards like Eladamri's Vinyard vs. Havenwood Battlegrounds vs. Hickory Woodlot in an Alluren build where you just want to cast Alluren by turn 3. I'm not suggesting this is the way to play Alluren, just commenting on the use of mana by a particular turn.

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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    Crystal Vein is better in storm decks. Other than that, CoT is always superior.. (even though I don't think it's optimal to run either one in storm)

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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    Storm decks generally don't run this type of accel. They need R or B rituals, diamonds, petals and mox.

    Decks running these cards are going to be either Stax or Tempo decks like Dragon Stompy or Faerie Stompy where they muscle out an early beater at the expense of more durable resources. Mid to late game mana production comes second to a critical early drive. Stax just need to land the initial key card to alter the game state to their favor. I would guess Stax wouldn't want Crystal Vein without say Crucible in play.

    It's sad that we have to talk budget with regards to City of Traitors as the card just seems so expensive to me. Thankfully, I have mine but still had to pay $7+ apeice for them not all that long ago. I just wouldn't buy them today if I didn't already own them.

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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    Quote Originally Posted by android View Post
    Storm decks generally don't run this type of accel. They need R or B rituals, diamonds, petals and mox.

    Decks running these cards are going to be either Stax or Tempo decks like Dragon Stompy or Faerie Stompy where they muscle out an early beater at the expense of more durable resources. Mid to late game mana production comes second to a critical early drive. Stax just need to land the initial key card to alter the game state to their favor. I would guess Stax wouldn't want Crystal Vein without say Crucible in play.

    It's sad that we have to talk budget with regards to City of Traitors as the card just seems so expensive to me. Thankfully, I have mine but still had to pay $7+ apeice for them not all that long ago. I just wouldn't buy them today if I didn't already own them.
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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    Weird. What are they accelerating into?

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    Re: Crystal Veins vs. City of Traitors (in junction with Ancient Tomb)

    In UB ANT it helps get through multiple taxing counters, helps reach thresh for Cabal Ritual when you go off, and sometimes it makes your goldfish a full turn faster. Crystal Vein basically helps you cast Ad Nauseam with mana floating. When you cast Ad Nauseam in ANT with 0 mana floating you get boned really often in these M.Tutor-less days (even from a high life total).

    On the other hand, it makes you much more vulnerable to Wasteland and occasionally it produces unkeepable hands that would normally have been fine, if it had been a colored land instead.

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