The short answer is that I don't think Condemn Is remotely playable in anything Legacy. There are too many creatures it will never hit and too many situations it just doesn't cover. Creatures like Kuldotha Forgemaster or KotR are scary without ever swinging. It can't hit a creature in response to an equip. It will never remove that one creature hanging back to block your lethal Tarmogoyf. In short, it's not flexible and it's not powerful.
Originally Posted by Draener
I'd agree. As much as I dislike PtE, Condemn isn't ever going to hit Dark Confidant, Mother of Runes, Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Welder and the list goes on indefinitely.
Yeah, what else could possibly be considered in the ballpark of Swords to Plowshares, besides Path to Exile? Condemn is so conditional, that whole 'attacking or blocking' thing is the reason most White removal is unplayable in the Big People Formats. Oblivion Ring, but at Sorcery speed and sooo much more expensive... maybe Wing Shards?? Temporal Isolation?? Afterlife??
While I don't necessarily think the two should be run in tandem - because then you're just giving your opponent land and life all higgledy-piggledy - I think the thing you get to ask yourself as a deckbuilder is "Okay, given the metagame and the main way my deck wins, which hit to my own tempo do I care least about, giving away life or basic lands? cuz I'll give my opponent that one in exchange for their mans."
FWIW, Path to Exile with Aven Mindcensor in play is sort of funny. Sort of. If they ever print like 2 more functional reprints of that guy, lookthefuckout
Journey to Nowhere is the closest after Path, I think. But it's got so many differences ( good and bad ) that it can't really be considered in the same ballpark. I would probably sideboard this before Path just because of the amount of SnT that's been popping up around my area.
Sunlance? Granted it doesn't help vs Knight of the Reliquary, Phyrexian Dreadnought or Tombstalker, but it wins Goyf wars, kills utility creatures and is more or less what you want vs. Goblins, Zoo, Merfolk and Elves etc.
Other than MD STP # 5 or 6, I don't see the point of PTE outside of Zoo. If you're SBing in removal to shore up the aggro or Merfolk match up then Sunlance probably gets there.
Sunlance is a sorcery though and not killing any of the creatures you mentioned are huge negatives.
-Cheers-
IMO, the best supplement to Swords in strategies that don't want Path is Oust.
Sorcery speed makes baby jeebus cry. But you go ahead and play Oust against me all you want. And I'll just abuse the hell out of Aether Vial and Mangara you into the stone age. Or make EoT LoA, untap and make 2 more lords and beat you for 18. Oust is slightly worse than Unsummon. At least Unsummon is an instant.
Going to be Pretty hard to top all the great cards named in this thread already, but here goes. Crib Swap is amazing at giving 1/1 tokens at instant speed and it combos with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge all the while making Goyf Goyfier.
I've been thinking about this, and I think it would be helpful to list out what the white options are and possibly reasoning for good vs. bad.
Swords to Plowshares - obviously top dog, exile for W, the lifegain is often negligable compared to dealing with a massive threat
Path to Exile - not exactly comparable, but still really good. You have to be the guy trying to win NOW, not the guy with the long game in mind
Journey to Nowhere - ugh, sorcery speed, but decent nonetheless. I'd say only playable in casual, not competitive, legacy
Oblivion Ring - I like this one...hardly anyone plays maindeck enchantment hate (Pridemages in zoo, sometimes junk) and it covers all bases, including Emrakul
Smite - cheap way to take advantage of blocking with an obsolete creature/expendable creature
Oust - ONLY good in tempo decks that are also denying mana so the removed dude is obsolete. Not permanent, gives life, sorcery. Yuck
Condemn - decent removal, but requires attacking. Doesn't do anything against Grims, Bobs, or other utility creatures that cause havoc
Reciprocate - surprised nobody has mentioned this yet...you can usually survive ONE hit from a big dude
Sunlance - all I can say is it's a lousy Chain Lightning
Wing Shards - not bad, but the 1WW is rough. Works on Progenitus, but Emrakul will have blown up 6 things anyways.
Dispense Justice - an easier to cast Wing Shards. Not sure metalcraft is even worth discussing outside of Affinity or Dutch Stax
Crib Swap - solid, even though its 3 mana, it's at least an exile effect at instant speed. The 1/1 does provide a chump blocker though...
I'm sure I've missed a few, and added thoughts on what makes them good/bad would be great!
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
You guys are morons. Everyone keeps just going back and forth saying this and that, providing cases where one is better than the other. You have to ask the essential question. You always have to ask the essential question.
What do you want the card to do?
Are you a control deck looking for early, cheap removal to side in against aggressive decks, such as Merfolk, Goblins, and Zoo?
Condemn seems pretty good here.
Path to Exile, in this instance, is essentially a more flexible Condemn that has a draw back.
Are you a NO-Bant list looking for an edge in the mirror, because you find that you're able to stop their Natural Orders but keep dying to random beats and variance?
Path to Exile has an edge here, because it can knock out an exalted creature.
Oust might not be great, because you care less about their tempo than you do the actual card.
Condemn kills everything you care about, but doesn't stop them from filtering and grabbing Horizon Canopies with their Knights.
Sower of Temptation asks them if they have a removal spell or Progenitus, and if the answer is "no" it wins the game.
Or maybe you're the aggro deck; in this case a middle-of-the-road Zoo list, and you're tired of the ground getting bogged up.
Why can't you kill their guys with burn, or burn+attack, or Lavamancer + attack? Why would you want to dilute your plan to play the game on their terms?
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Never rule out a card just because it seems bad compared to other options in a vaccuum. Always first identify what needs to be done, then see if there is a card that does it. Keep an eye on whether you intend to change your plan in sideboarded games, or just attempt to pick up percentage points with more well-positioned role-players. I.e., ask if you are switching the card in the slot, or changing what the slot does.
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