Nyxathid viable in Legacy?

[Qweerios]

Hello,

I am currently trying to build a deck using Nyxathid to its full potential, and discard seems like the most logical path. As many of you may know, discard isn't all that reliable in legacy as a main theme but perhaps we could work something out. The core of the deck should be black and try to abuse the best cards availlable in that color (Bob, Hymn, Rituals, etc..). Splashing green for Goyf and Grips is probably the best choice IMO because discard is probably the best way to take advantage of early Goyfs and black decks have a really hard time dealing with artifacts and enchantments (countertop). Here is what I have in mind:


Creatures (16)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Nyxathid

Spells (26)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Funeral Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Go for the Throat
3 Mirri's Guile
3 The Rack

Lands (18)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bayou
1 Forest
5 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
4 Krosan Grip
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Perish
3 Engineered Plague


The deck has plenty of first turn plays, capitalizes on discard but doesn't overextend as Specters and Charms double up as evasive beater and removal/pump. Go for the Throat seems like a great targeted removal that can easely be sided out or complemented by Krosan Grip against big artifact decks. Mirri's Guile is there to filter away unwanted discard spells in the mid-late game with fetches and bobs.

Looking forward to your suggestions and ideas.

[pandaman]

Possible answer?

But seriously, I like Nyxathid and have always wanted to make a deck with him as a central part. If you're going green, you could consider Life from the Loam and Raven's Crime as a way to keep their hand size to a minimum? If Hypnotic Specter isn't enough.

Good luck with the deck!

[mistercakes]

might want to consider pox. i've seen older lists running nyx there.

[arwall]

Gotta love Mirri's Guile. I've run it in a few green decks.

I've found that Burgeoning works really well in combo with Mirri's Guile if you've got a good draw to back it up.

[sunshine]

Mirri's Guile seems worse for you than Top. Aside from the fact that extra Guile's are literally blanks, you can also get away from wanting a green source on turn one opening you up to Wasteland.

I'm not really sold on The Rack either - have you done any testing with it?

Any thought of splashing white for Gerrard's Verdict?

[Greenpoe]

White nets you Tidehollow Sculler. Mirri's Guilde is nice because top is so mana-intensive. Nezumi Shortfang is another option. I would definitely find a way to fit Wasteland in. Cut them off of their mana lowers their ability to play spells, and thus gives you more chances to make them discard before they can play it.

[jamis]

Your list looks almost identical to my first Eva Green list. Unfortunately, I found that Nyxathid just didn't cut it, and removed it from my list. I think you'd be better off playing a more traditional Eva Green decklist rather than trying to build around Nyxathid.

As far as threats go, Tombstalker really is as good as it gets, and I've found I'd prefer it over Nyxathid in almost every situation. If you miss the card advantage from Confidant, and don't feel comfortable running Tombstalker and Confidant in the same list, perhaps replace Confidant and Guile with Sylvan Library. This frees up 4 slots and lets you run better cards -- for instance, Snuff Out instead of GFTT.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Nyxathid's always been a strong fatty for MBC or Eva Green in legacy, but he's fighting for a spot with Nantuko Shade and Goyf as the fat creature.

Nantuko Shade require more mana investment, but he also comes out quicker and turns late game rituals into giant growths which is benefit in your deck building plan, and Goyf..is Goyf. He has a very particular drawback, so he requires a dedicated deck like you have with enough discard.

It's gonna require a lot of hard testing to show if Nyxathid's worth his weight. Tournament results won't tell anything, just that you had a good or bad matchup half the time; ie. losing against enchantress, is that Nyxathid or just a bad matchup?

[Qweerios]

Thanks for the feedback. I have played Eva Green, Deadguy Ale, and Red Death for years and am quite aware that they are strong decks, however, this deck is built arround Nyxathid, so let's keep it that way.

I have considered white before green for paths > throats and gerrard's verdict but have felt like these additions were easely substituted by black cards and that none of them outweighs Goyf or Kgrip. I have considered using all 3 colors but really dont feel like losing ritual potential and weakening the manabase in a deck that is 100% about the first 3 turns. I refuse to run pox or smallpox in a deck relying equaly on creature count, hand size, and 18 lands. Destroying my opponent's lands is the least of my concerns. This brings me to wastelands, the card is great but doesn't belong in this deck. Including wastelands requires me to take away either threats, discard spells, removal, or library manipulation, none of which I would replace with LD. Also, about first turn Guile's leaving me vulnerable to wastelands, I wouldn't keep a hand where my best first turn play is guile.

Tidehollow Sculler is indeed better than Specter and Paths are indeed better than Throats. Running BWg would warrant the inclusion of additional lands over dark rituals and maybe allow a few verdicts to be squeezed in. The main question is wether or not these changes make us deviate from our primary goal of emptying our opponent's hand ASAP too much to be considered, or if they add to the consistency and overall strength.

BWg Nyxathid:


Creatures (16)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nyxathid

Spells (21)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Funeral Charm
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Path to Exile
3 Mirri's Guile

Artifacts (3)
3 The Rack

Lands (20)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
5 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
3 Krosan Grip
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Perish
3 Engineered Plague


I am still unsure of which would be better between Swords or Paths, and Guile or Top.

[Team-Hero]

If your going to run a three or more color deck, consider Noxious Vapors in the sideboard. It can destroy mono color or artifact decks on turn three (or even sooner with Dark Ritual).

Whenever I played discard based decks, the main problem that I came up with was "what do I do with all these discard spells after my opponent has no cards in his hand?" It's not an easy fix but I started playing Thought Gorger as a beater. If he gets killed, at least you didn't lose much value from your hand since you get to redraw new cards from the ones you discarded in the first place.

By the way, Nyxathid is the real deal in a discard deck. I choose him as my #1, four copies of, when I play a discard deck. I write him down in the list before I start writing down discard spells.

[Surakhiri]

Just thought I would share a similar deck I was thinking of trying some time ago. Pretty straight forward :)

CREATURES (20)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tempting Wurm
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Nyxathid
4 Dark Confidant

SORCERIES (12)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Gerrard’s Verdict

INSTANTS (5)
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ghastly Demise

ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Chrome Mox

LANDS (20)
4 Scrubland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland

[Quark.Nova]

Are you really sure that Tempting Wurm is such a good idea in a format full of Progenitus and Emrakul?

[nedleeds]

I don't think he's viable. He doesn't evade and doesn't have much resistance to removal ... he could also be an awful top deck mid game. Nihilith is better and even it doesn't see play.

[Mystical_Jackass]

But I think that could be said about Terravore, Goyf, KotR, etc. I think Nyxathid sees a lot more play than Nihilith, since Nihilith is only good on turn 1-3 whereas Nyxathid can be an amazing topdeck later in the game too. His drawback is good in decks with a lot of discard, it helps you justify those mid-late game hymn draws to keep your opponents hand empty while he stays huge, so it's nice to have a fatty that also fits into MBC game plan.

[Qweerios]

After a bit of testing I have found out that:

Top > Guile for this deck as it is more versatile even though it is more mana intensive. The non-green mana requirement and ability to relook the top 3 cards after a fetch are crucial. It is also removal proof.

Swords > Paths simply because it doesn't accelerate your opponent's board when removing an early threat, the life gain is marginal.

Tempting Wurm as a 1-2 of is excellent. Great find Surakhiri!

I am intrigued by Chrome Mox but as I have never played or owned any I cannot really reflect on the idea.

Here is my updated list so far:

BWg Discard

Creatures (17)
1 Tempting Wurm
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nyxathid

Spells (18)
4 Funeral Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifacts (5)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 The Rack

Lands (20)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Krosan Grip
3 Perish
3 Engineered Plague

[muscleb]

I like that list Qweerios, however funeral charm looks really weak, perhaps replace it with some acceleration, ritual or chrome mox or even the Green Sun Zenith+Dryad Arbor(which also works well with tarmogoyf as a way of keep drawing gas)

[Qweerios]

I am afraid Funeral Charm is one of the best card for a discard deck as it fulfills multiple purposes. Sure, using it on a first turn as a simple discard isn't that hot but using it to kill lavamancers, confidants, hierarchs, birds, any 1 toughness creature really is what makes it good as it already doubles up in purpose when discard isn't viable. It also acts as a pump for all of our creatures except for bob and becomes a swiss army knife against any deck running any form of swamp. Oh!, and i almost forgot, the discard part is INSTANT, and we all know how good instant discard is.

[bracer028]

Thanks for the feedback. I have played Eva Green, Deadguy Ale, and Red Death for years and am quite aware that they are strong decks, however, this deck is built arround Nyxathid, so let's keep it that way.

but isn't ur question about how viable nyxathid is in legacy?

the question now is that...there are several decks that have playtested nyxathid and none found them to be viable. I think you should move on.

[Qweerios]

but isn't ur question about how viable nyxathid is in legacy?

the question now is that...there are several decks that have playtested nyxathid and none found them to be viable. I think you should move on.

In my opening sentence I stated that I wanted to build a deck arround Nyxathid. Also, I have tried Nyxathid in all of the decks I have mentioned and yes, the card is suboptimal in these disruption/tempo driven decks. However, with the amount of discard present in a discard based deck, Nyxathid truly shines. Besides, its not because Nyxathid isn't viable in eva green, red death, or deadguy that its not viable in legacy.

[Sanity_Cleaver]

I've had a Nyxathid deck for a while now. I've had some pretty good results with it before.
List is here-
(note the super secret tech: ROTTING RATS!)


4x Dark Ritual
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Smallpox
4x Snuff Out

4x Rotting Rats
4x Bloodghast
4x Nyxathid
4x Tombstalker
3x Nether Spirit

4x Wasteland
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Dakmor Salvage
1x Tomb of Urami
10x Swamp

SIDEBOARD
4x Powder Keg
3x Pithing Needle
3x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Sadistic Sacrament
2x Extirpate