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Thread: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

  1. #121
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Do you even care about the "find a basic" part of Assassin's Trophy?
    Getting *some* value out of an Ass Trophy pointed at my permanent reduces the feel-bads. I can definitely spare 1 slot, but committing to a second is harder to say with certainty at this point. Island feels like the best option when looking at the mana requirements of the deck and assuming no Blood Moon effects on the table...

    I suspect Trophy will be a highly played card, at least initially. And given that it can target anything, and that planeswalkers are harder to remove than other permanents, I expect many of those Trophies will target my walkers the turn before they ultimate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Is Swamp a consideration instead of Plains?
    Great point!

    Currently my colorless answers to Blood Moon are:

    - Chromatic Lantern
    - Coalition Relic
    - Karn Liberated
    - Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    Assuming a basic Island on the field, the cards I can still play would be:

    - Cyclonic Rift (also an answer!)
    - Saheeli Rai
    - Dack Fayden
    - Ral Zarek
    - Deepglow Skate
    - Search for Azcanta (which would become a Mountain when transformed )

    None of those other than Rift get me out of a Blood Moon lock...

    Answers with a Plains:

    - Nahiri, the Harbinger

    Theoretically Arena Rector could find me an answer, but she'd have to hit my graveyard (preferably on my turn when I could immediately use the walker she found).

    Answers with a Swamp:

    - Demonic Tutor
    - Vampiric Tutor

    They are answers in the sense that they find me an answer. If the Moon effect is from Magus of the Moon, then Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and Toxic Deluge also work. Although Chandra, Torch of Defiance would be an answer too...

    I guess for completion's sake...

    Answers with a Forest:

    - ...

    Well I guess there really aren't any. Again assuming the lock is from Magus, Samut, the Tested can kill it. And I suppose Xenagos, the Reveler can keep me in green mana (which we've established doesn't do me any good).

    --------------------------------

    Okay, so what have I learned...

    Island is the most individually useful basic land I can include, but it doesn't do me a ton of good if the rest of my lands are Mountains.
    Swamp is the most useful land if everything else is a Mountain, but isn't hugely helpful otherwise.
    Under a Blood Moon, Plains is borderline useless unless I have 2; and Forest is pretty useless even if I have a million.

    I'm going to test an Island for a little while. And assuming it doesn't cause problems I will move on to testing a Swamp. Fortunately for me, Blood Moon / Magus of the Moon are not widely played in my area.

  2. #122
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Getting *some* value out of an Ass Trophy pointed at my permanent reduces the feel-bads. I can definitely spare 1 slot, but committing to a second is harder to say with certainty at this point. Island feels like the best option when looking at the mana requirements of the deck and assuming no Blood Moon effects on the table...

    I suspect Trophy will be a highly played card, at least initially. And given that it can target anything, and that planeswalkers are harder to remove than other permanents, I expect many of those Trophies will target my walkers the turn before they ultimate.
    I would expect that the Ass Trophy will be a staple in BGx decks basically forever. 2 mana to destroy a permanent at instant speed is pretty hard to leave on the cutting room floor, and the "downside" is hardly a downside in this format unless you're in a bleeding edge competitive game. My guess is that it'll replace Putrefy in a lot of BGx lists, unless they're also running something like Go for the Throat or whatever.

    Now that I think about it, Golgari has gotten a decent removal spell out of each iteration of Ravinca...Putrefy the first time, Abrupt Decay the second, and now Assassin's Trophy in round 3. It's also somewhat illustrative of power creep over the years...

  3. #123

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Browsed through here to get some ideas for my atraxa deck.
    Some cards that might be worthwhile, and I don't think I saw them mentioned in the pages:


    Primevals' Glorious Rebirth
    Kamahl's Druidic Vow
    Genesis Wave


    The first being a "reset button" (needing a legend in play already of course) and the latter being more extreme versions of deploy the gatewatch. The former also helps when you have those awkward turns of land a PW, use them once, then have them die next turn. Genesis Wave has a tough CC though.


    Mind posting an updated list? Or is that what is being updated on the front page?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  4. #124
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Mind posting an updated list? Or is that what is being updated on the front page?
    OP is always updated with my current list!

    Thanks for sharing suggestions! It's actually quite funny because Primevals' Glorious Rebirth came up at EDH last night.

    Regarding Genesis Wave... as you noted, the can be a bit tricky, but not impossible. It's more about investing mana (11 if I want to be able to land all potential hits) and a card into an unguaranteed outcome. This is very much a control deck, so unguaranteed outcomes are not something the deck wants.

    Last night I was involved in a fairly epic 2 hour game (the primary fault of the game taking 2+ hours was mine) which would have gone my way except that my 3 opponents decided to treat me as the archenemy. Can't be too upset about that. But about an hour and a half into the game, an onlooker saw my graveyard full of planeswalkers and started making a case for Primevals' Glorious Rebirth.

    My reasons against are as follows:
    1.) Card does nothing on its own (it literally cannot be played) and requires you to have a somewhat favorable (or at least already defensible) board position, which means it's 'win-more'. The mana cost of is misleading because it would require at a minimum 3 additional mana for me to play my very smallest planeswalker before casting it. It's 2 mana worse (and all of it colored) if I'm using Cromat to fulfill my legendary requirement. And it gets impossible if he's already been cast in the game and we're adding commander tax...

    2.) Besides the infrequent 'god-hand', the path to victory with this deck is slow and plodding. After an hour and a half last night, I had exhausted my opponent's resources and still had 6 cards in hand, even after Will Kenrith set up a turn that let me play Kaya, Ghost Assassin, Sorin, Grim Nemesis, and Nahiri, the Harbinger. My opponent top-decked an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, which answered my board of 7 planeswalkers, but I still had a large enough hand to be the arch-enemy. This deck would rather have ways to answer an opponent's board than one that might give me an absurd advantage under specific pre-requisites.


    - Game play has solidified the strength of Search for Azcanta in the deck. Ral Zarek/Teferi, Temporal Archmage, and Sol Ring are stupidly good once it flips to be Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin.
    - Will Kenrith is insanely powerful. I missed a shuffle trigger with him last night, but hopefully that will make me remember it in the future.
    - Arena Rector got me into a position to start controlling the game. I kept a 1-land (Tundra) hand with Sol Ring and Search for Azcanta and struggled for the first 7 turns as my opponents boards grew and grew and grew. With only 1 white source (the Tundra) and 6 total mana, I played Arena Rector. Next turn was Ral Zarek. Rector rattlesnaked away attacks into Ral, so when I untapped Ral killed the Rector, who found Teferi, and let me use my Tundra twice to cast Austere Command. I was firmly in control for the next 45 minutes until the top-decked Ugin mentioned above. From that point I was only loosely in control.
    - I saw basic Island at the very end of the game (it was the last land I put into play). Still needs more testing.

  5. #125

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    All valid arguments. My deck plays a little less control in the card sense and relies more on planeswalkers so i can see your point about not wanting to tap out.

    Something else that might work for you in a control/land sense (if you have room) is Alchemist's Refuge. Gives all your walkers flash if you don't mind paying a little extra for them to give them an extra turn of protection from attackers (or instant speed sweeps, etc). I haven't tested this out but I certainly like to as leaving my superfriends exposed gives me sads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  6. #126

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Is the Xenagos there to provide blockers and ramp? It seems like a bit of an odd inclusion, but it seems like you've had him in there for a while and seem content. I don't play red in mine (yet?) so I was curious how this has been working out for you.
    I was also going to ask the same of Ashiok, seems like you've been on the fence a while. Any updates on why this is kept vs something else?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  7. #127
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Sorry for the delayed response!

    Xenagos makes hasty creatures. Haste has been relevant more often than not! But yes, Xenagos makes dudes and ramps. He helps to go infinite with The Chain Veil by providing mana if something else gets it to untap.

    I've also come around to Ashiok. It is brutal against combo opponents because it exiles. And occasionally it exiles a creature worth playing. Its ultimate is worrisome enough that most players will prioritize dealing with Ashiok over other things I'd rather keep around.


    Just ordered a shiny Conspiracy Dack (FINALLY!) and a buy-a-box Search for Azcanta.
    I also ordered:

    I intend to also get an Angrath, the Flame-Chained.

    I like Aminatou's ability to blink things so I can reuse them, unlike Venser's blink ability. This will let me double-use planeswalkers and is a way to 'untap' The Chain Veil. The +1 isn't completely useless, and the ultimate could be fun.
    Vivien Reid seems like a pretty decent upgrade from Freyalise. The elves aren't as good as the lands Vivien will find.
    Big Nissa will replace little Nissa.

    I haven't been thrilled with Djeru, so Angrath looks worthy enough to give a shot.

    + Aminatou, the Fateshifter
    + Vivien Reid
    + Nissa, Vital Force
    + Angrath, the Flame-Chained
    - Venser, the Sojourner
    - Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
    - Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
    - Djeru, With Eyes Open

  8. #128

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Aside from mainboarding in direct answers (tormod's crypt, etc) do you have any outs to Meren/Graveyard decks? Maybe it's just terrible luck but an active Meren with vampire hexmage/hex parasite has ruined a lot of games for me vs my superfriends build. I'm guessing I could put in bog as a silver bullet and take out a swamp (no true duals unfortunately) and just use tutors to find it? Then blink it as necessary for repeat effects? May have just answered my own question there but figured I would see if you've run into this before as well and how you handled/would handle it.

    To further the point on Ashiok, i haven't gotten to do anything terribly fun (yet) with it, but it definitely diverts a lot of attention when it starts exiling cards. So our experience matches in that regard. Still not completely sold on it but might be heading that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  9. #129
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Hey man! I'll admit that the Meren/Hexmage loop isn't one I've had to fight against (yet). Since it bypasses the stack and can be sacrificed in response to anything, it's understandably a problem for superfriends...

    I'd likely pursue one of two possible lines.
    1.) Keep Meren off the board. If she becomes prohibitably expensive it prevents the loop. This is fairly draw dependant though.
    2.) Kill the Meren player with Cromat! Sometimes Cromat has to earn his keep.

  10. #130

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    touche.

    Do EDH players double sleeve their decks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  11. #131
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    I do. I double sleeve every deck I have.

  12. #132

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Hot Damn! New Kaya give the super friends some graveyard interaction! Not sure if you need it in yours, but it's going in mine!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  13. #133
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Nice! At first glance, I prefer 4-mana Kaya. I haven't ruled out new Dovin yet though...

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Nice! At first glance, I prefer 4-mana Kaya. I haven't ruled out new Dovin yet though...
    Really? The +1 doesn't seem like it does all that much for you basically ever. A thopter is fine, but your deck doesn't care about artifacts or gaining life, and plenty of walkers make tokens if a chump blocker is what you're after. The -7 is marginally better Dig Through Time, which you're already not running and would require you to jump through a whole lot fewer hoops if that's an effect you want. Am I missing something?

    The new Kaya seems a lot stronger - graveyard hate is very good in this format, and your current list is pretty light on that. The -1 is also randomly useful if you think about it. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Skullclamp, Deathrite Shaman, Land Tax/Exploration/Burgeoning, Mystic Remora...there's quite a few powerful 1 CMC cards that would be decent to exile. Her -5 is kind of weak, but I think that's probably to her benefit since it makes her a heck of a lot less threatening, which means she's more likely to stick around to keep munching on graveyards. There's some random synergy with Ugin, Karn, and Merciless Eviction too, so maybe every once in a while you'll get someone for a 5+ point life swing or something.

  15. #135
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    I just haven't ruled him out.

    His +1 is essentially a do-nothing effect, which will ultimately disqualify him if I determine I cannot get him into minus-7-range within a turn or two.

    Making tokens is always something, gaining life is just bonus.

    And his ultimate is very good for a 3 mana (plus time) investment. I tried DTT and it got cut for not costing ever and not being a planeswalker.

    Again, totally not sold on him yet.

    4 mana Kaya still seems stronger. She protects herself, can lock down a threat, and provides real card advantage.

    New Kaya's ultimate does very little, and her other two abilities are extremely narrow. I'll keep her in mind tonight, but with Domri being the likely third walker of this set, I have a feeling Cromat will not be getting any new cards...

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I just haven't ruled him out.

    His +1 is essentially a do-nothing effect, which will ultimately disqualify him if I determine I cannot get him into minus-7-range within a turn or two.

    Making tokens is always something, gaining life is just bonus.

    And his ultimate is very good for a 3 mana (plus time) investment. I tried DTT and it got cut for not costing ever and not being a planeswalker.

    Again, totally not sold on him yet.
    I would see the -7 being potentially good if the +1 made the token, but as it stands the two abilities you actually want are -X abilities and therefore actively work against each other. You have to spend a bunch of turns doing actual nothing to draw three cards. It's basically a much more vulnerable Ancestral Vision at that point, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    4 mana Kaya still seems stronger. She protects herself, can lock down a threat, and provides real card advantage.

    New Kaya's ultimate does very little, and her other two abilities are extremely narrow. I'll keep her in mind tonight, but with Domri being the likely third walker of this set, I have a feeling Cromat will not be getting any new cards...
    My first thought was "why not both?", then I remembered you're going for the one of each type thing. So yeah, if I had to choose between Kayas I'd pick the 4 mana one too.

  17. #137
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    We're a good way into spoilers for War of the Spark and there are definitely some new cards that look good.

    But first, I have been playing with Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh instead of Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and I think I'll be keeping the change. God-Pharaoh is easier to cast and is better against a pod (although Planeswalker is unquestionably better against a single opponent).

    Now for new cards!

    Niv-Mizzet Reborn is the first Legend that made me actually reconsider Cromat as the general... However the deck has too many colorless or mono-colored 'must haves' to maximize the card advantage that new Niv could provide. I'm disappointed, but only a little.

    Liliana, Dreadhorde General will absolutely take the place of Liliana Vess. Excited to make this swap. Her -4 is amazing and the static clause is just gravy.

    I will also definitely be including Karn's Bastion. Repeatable proliferate on a land is sweet.
    Basic Island has been fine, but hasn't proven to be as beneficial as I thought it would be.

    Honorable mention to Evolution Sage. That card is waaaaaaay powerful. I'm just not sure that I can abuse it enough to warrant a spot. And I'm not sure what I'd cut...

  18. #138

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    We're a good way into spoilers for War of the Spark and there are definitely some new cards that look good.

    But first, I have been playing with Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh instead of Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and I think I'll be keeping the change. God-Pharaoh is easier to cast and is better against a pod (although Planeswalker is unquestionably better against a single opponent).

    Now for new cards!

    Niv-Mizzet Reborn is the first Legend that made me actually reconsider Cromat as the general... However the deck has too many colorless or mono-colored 'must haves' to maximize the card advantage that new Niv could provide. I'm disappointed, but only a little.

    Liliana, Dreadhorde General will absolutely take the place of Liliana Vess. Excited to make this swap. Her -4 is amazing and the static clause is just gravy.

    I will also definitely be including Karn's Bastion. Repeatable proliferate on a land is sweet.
    Basic Island has been fine, but hasn't proven to be as beneficial as I thought it would be.

    Honorable mention to Evolution Sage. That card is waaaaaaay powerful. I'm just not sure that I can abuse it enough to warrant a spot. And I'm not sure what I'd cut...

    Hey man, can you post your updated decklist? I'm just curious, I haven't actually played magic in a couple of years. Was reading some of your newer posts, cool choices! So many good options now that are available compared to back when.

  19. #139
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Hey man!
    The opening post is always my updated list.

    I'm really going back and forth over Niv... I've been goldfishing and the card draw from Niv is reeeally good. I only get 2-3 cards, but that's still pretty amazing. Especially because I can build with the ability in mind for the future and average 3-4.

    Cromat may be in trouble...

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