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Thread: Cheeri0s

  1. #1

    Cheeri0s

    Here's a deck I've played at a SCG 5k and two Jupiter Games events. While it's a very powerful combo deck, like most goldfish combo it hates Fow/Thoughtseize/Trinisphere, etc... The deck goldfishes pretty consistantly by turn 2, and almost always by turn 3. Every once in a while the Glimpse combo will "fizzle", but the good news is that the combo fodder is creature permanents, so they can chump for a while until Scapegoat restocks the hand or another combo piece comes out. The sideboard is transformative for this reason, as the deck can't effectively use hate that well. It does have the Brain Freeze as a way to combat Lands/Doomsday/Life/any other deck that can effectively negate damage. Anyway, here's the current list:


    // The fodder:
    4x Crimson Kobolds
    4x Kobolds of Kher Keep
    4x Crookshank Kobolds
    4x Memnite
    4x Ornithopter
    4x Phyrexian Walker
    4x Skyshroud Cutter
    4x Shield Sphere

    // The mana:
    4x Elvish Spirit Guide
    4x Lotus Petal
    1x Savannah
    1x Taiga
    1x Tropical Island
    3x Misty Rainforest
    2x Verdant Catacombs

    //The combo:
    4x Glimpse of Nature
    4x Personal Tutor
    2x Scapegoat

    // The kills:
    1x Beastmaster Ascension
    1x Grapeshot

    // Sideboard:
    3x Beastmaster Ascension
    1x Spawning Pit
    1x Goblin Bombardment
    1x Brain Freeze
    4x Contested War Zone
    4x Signal Pest
    1x Sylvan Library

  2. #2

    Re: Cheeri0s

    I experimented with a similar build a while ago, but I wasn't able to make anything more than a slower version of belcher that wasn't any more resilient to FoW and Thoughtseize.

    I did have Xantid Swarm and a few other anti-hate cards on my sideboard though. I also have 1-2 less spirit guides and 1-2 more lands. How useful has the transformational sideboard been for you? Even post sideboard it seems it's still vulnerable to hate if they wasteland your warzone or counter your pest.

  3. #3

    Re: Cheeri0s

    Yes, TES/ANT and Belcher are still faster and while this can (and has) gone off turn 1, it does so with a little less regularity than those two. It is noticibly quicker than "slow combo" like Painter/Stone, Reanimator, Elves, Thopter/Sword, etc. What I like about it in regards to "faster" combo is that it has a bit more resiliancy than those as the combo fuel aren't mana cantrips, but creatures. This gives the deck some legs in that it can just turn 'em sideways for the win if the storm piece gets stripped away/stifled.

    I wouldn't do more lands, as then you get below 50% 0-cmc effective creatures, and every one below 30 does increase the combo fizzle % a fair amount. The only time I've ever had mana issues was against Stax (with Armageddon), and that's almost a bye for them anyway...

    As for the SB, it's pretty effective agaist U based control. The biggest value from it is that people auto-dump their spot removal and their enchantment hate as all they see the first game is a storm kill (hopefully). So, by turning into an aggro deck post board (-4 personal tutor, -2 Scapegoat, -1 Grapeshot, -4 Shield Sphere, -2 Skyshroud Cutter, +4 contested war zone, +4 Signal Pest, +3 Beastmaster Ascension, +1 Spawning Pit, +1 Goblin Bombardment) you blank quite a bit and they're more likely to keep a hand designed to stop combo, not race aggro. I've seen lots of Leyline of Sanctity in G2 when I didn't have a single thing in my deck that could target them anyway... The Glimpses (post board) are just for value and I hope to get maybe 3-4 extra draws off them. Yeah, they may swords a pest or waste a CWZ, but then an ascension gets 'em. Once in a while you will still go off by hitting two or three glimpses, but it's rare and they're just there to get the card advantage. Against anything with Hymn to Tourach or Thoughtsieze, I'm bringing in the miser Sylvan Library as that can turn things around nicely.

  4. #4
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    The last mox tournament I went to, my first round I played against Cheeri0s. I was playing Goblins, and while I did great in my other match ups I lost miserably to cheeri0s the deck was much faster than my goblins. my opponent just overran me with BMA and even post board I still had a difficult time with his insane ramp.

  5. #5
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    Decks like this and Elves! are a good reason why you should consider playing Pyrostatic Pillar in your Gobbos deck instead of just Thorn of Amythyst or Mindbreak Trap. Pyro Pillar is incredibly hard for a combo deck to fight. It can be hard for them to remove it without taking lethal damage if you've already hit them a few times.

  6. #6

    Re: Cheeri0s

    Yup, I definately hate to see the Pillar come in against me. That's when the game plan is to switch to plan B and hope to get an Ascension on line, or if you're boarding hate instead of an Aggro plan, the Nature's Claims and Krosan Grips come in. My only losses with the deck to R based aggro (Gobbos, Burn, Boros or otherwise) have been as a result of variance (glimpse fizzle, mull to oblivion, etc.).

  7. #7
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    Quote Originally Posted by magiclovr View Post
    Yup, I definately hate to see the Pillar come in against me. That's when the game plan is to switch to plan B and hope to get an Ascension on line, or if you're boarding hate instead of an Aggro plan, the Nature's Claims and Krosan Grips come in. My only losses with the deck to R based aggro (Gobbos, Burn, Boros or otherwise) have been as a result of variance (glimpse fizzle, mull to oblivion, etc.).
    Sorry, but what Claims or Grips are you referring to?Also why the Brain freeze and what do you do against chalice?
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  8. #8

    Re: Cheeri0s

    Quote Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus View Post
    Sorry, but what Claims or Grips are you referring to?Also why the Brain freeze and what do you do against chalice?
    Nature's Claim Krosan Grip The Brain Freeze is for decks like MUD running Emperion or any other deck that has a way of gaining a LOT of life. Also pretty handy against Lands running Glacial Chasm. I've used it during an Ant/TES or Belcher player while going off using their storm count to get them pretty good. Also great against Doomsday once they make a stack of Sheldock Isle, Emrakul, and cloud of Faeries.

    Against Chalice on 0, just go off anyway as you don't need the Lotus Petals to win. Remember you get the glimpse triggers even if your 0cc creatures are countered. It certainly makes the BMA plan pretty lousy, so you're all in on the Grapeshot. Against Chalice on 1, you're pretty f**cked... If I see that game one, I'm going aggro. Chalice on 2 is a non-event, so they'll probably never do it.
    Last edited by magiclovr; 04-04-2011 at 09:00 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    Quote Originally Posted by magiclovr View Post
    Nature's Claim Krosan Grip The Brain Freeze is for decks like MUD running Emperion or any other deck that has a way of gaining a LOT of life. Also pretty handy against Lands running Glacial Chasm. I've used it during an Ant/TES or Belcher player while going off using their storm count to get them pretty good. Also great against Doomsday once they make a stack of Sheldock Isle, Emrakul, and cloud of Faeries.

    Against Chalice on 0, just go off anyway as you don't need the Lotus Petals to win. Remember you get the glimpse triggers even if your 0cc creatures are countered. It certainly makes the BMA plan pretty lousy, so you're all in on the Grapeshot. Against Chalice on 1, you're pretty f**cked... If I see that game one, I'm going aggro. Chalice on 2 is a non-event, so they'll probably never do it.
    I know what the cards are ,I just cannot find them in your sb:p
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  10. #10

    Re: Cheeri0s

    I've been testing a janked-out list that's sort of similar to this on MWS sometimes.

    From my experiences, I can recommend trying these things: Gaea's Cradle possibly with 1 Crop Rotation thrown in for good measure (so you can tap one Cradle for obscene mana, and then Crop Rotation it for your second copy, in order to make "(obscene mana *2) -1".) This land enables you to run (or at least test) some crazy shit, like Banefire as an alternate win (I think it's the strongest thing to use alongside Cradle), Collective Unconscious, Biorhythm, etc. (And yeah, I'll concede these last two examples are probably 'win-more' they're just the first examples I thought of besides Banefire, which is the only one I've actually been using in my list.)

    Also try out: Diabolic Intent... Seriously, WTF? Why not use this as at least a 1-2 of if your Plan A is "Grapeshot to the dome on the back of Glimpse of Nature"?? I realize this deck draws a shit-ton of cards with Glimpse, and you're not running black right now, but it seems really sloppy to not run any tutors, when you only run 2 cards maindeck that can actually win you the game.

    Elvish Spirit Guide, although I can see how it might be a necessary evil (since neither Chrome Mox or Mox Opal would be quite right)... Looks ass-ugly. Would Land Grant be any better perhaps? Granted, they can counter it, but countering it would usually be the wrong play anyhow (as opposed to countering the Glimpse that it represents)... And it adds to Storm count. I think the question is, do you ever play Spirit Guide on your fundamental turn, as a creature, so you can draw an extra card? Because if not, I think Land Grant is better.

    Also, I have to second the question on how good the transformational sideboard has been for you? Personally, my first instinct is to try things like Xantid Swarm, Nature's Claim, Shattering Spree, Red Elemental Blast, Serenity, and Autumn's Veil... Basically just go for the silver bullet approach. But IDK.

    And finally, has Skyshroud Cutter been good? I've been playing a list with less free creatures (and wanting a few more), but he seems kinda 'meh' to me, in the sense that giving your opponent 5 life is kind of like giving yourself minus four Storm count (if Grapeshot is your primary win). Have you tried using Wild Cantor and/or Tinder Wall in his slot?

    Anyhow... Nice list though, it makes me want to go back and fine-tune mine a bit, then test more. And definitely try out Gaea's Cradle, it's one of the more powerful plays a shell like this is capable of making, IMO.

    EDIT: One more crazy idea out of left field would be to experiment with Pattern of Rebirth ->> Emrakul/Progenitus. But it would require a consistent number of cheap-ass creature sac outlets. (Culling the Weak seems like a good place to start if you want to try working in Pattern.)

    DOUBLE EDIT: Another thing worth mentioning, although I'm not sure it will eventually make the cut, is that Cloudstone Curio gives you a pretty easy way to generate infinite Storm count with this deck. Unfortunately, the "nonartifact" clause really hurts it, but it might still be useful sideboard material... Somehow?
    Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak

  11. #11

    Re: Cheeri0s

    Quote Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus View Post
    I know what the cards are ,I just cannot find them in your sb:p
    Ah, got it. That was a reference to when I play with a more "hate filled" SB as opposed to the current "go aggro" SB. They're not in the list I'm playing currently, but have been in prior lists.

  12. #12

    Re: Cheeri0s

    Good points:

    Re: Cradle and Rotation - That's actually pretty close to the list I played at SCG 5k in Boston last year. The deck was built sub-optimal, but without the cradles and rotations it gained a lot of consistancy in going off. Cradle can be found in the SB if I'm expecting Tabernacle. It's also fun to have a cradle and a Terrastadon coming from the board.

    Re: Diabolic Intent - I never knew this card existed... Wow, I just might buy... all of them. This is sick in a deck like this, and I have tested it with Bayou's, Cabal Therapy, and other assorted black goodness in the SB where this would fit in perfectly... Well, it's not like I'm not running any tutors. The 4 personal tutors are in there to make sure glimpse is either in my opener, or there next turn. As a side note, it's doesn't draw a ton of cards, it actually draws the whole library. When you're done going off, you have all but 1 or 2 cards of your library in your hand. No need for a tutor at that point. Yes, I have had a couple of times where one of the bottom two cards of my library was Grapeshot (thankfully only in testing), which is one reason the BMA is in there...

    Re: ESG - Absolutely wouldn't cut this. I'd say it gets cast as a creature (while going off, as a last resort to keep the glimpse going) maybe 5% of the time. It does get cast in games 2-3 a bit more as a creature when things like Engineered Plague and Engineered Explosives come in. It's nice as an outlet, but that's not the main reason I run it. It's un-counterable mana that you can dump all at once as you collect them in your hand while going off. I tested all the moxes and land grant for a time, but IMHO ESG is definately the way to go for this type of a build. Storm count isn't a problem. I've gotten opponents up to 34 life on turn 2 by going off and needing to use the Skyshroud Cutters, and still gotten the storm to 34 to get them. This is also why I almost never get the glimpse count up to 3. Doing so will only let you get your storm count up to high teens, maybe above 20 as you'll deck yourself before it gets there.

    Re: Skyshroud Cutter - Yup, he's a rockstar. The -5 storm count doesn't matter unless you fizzle (<10%) or have to use all 4 of them to keep a glimpse going (hasn't happened yet) as your storm count when you're done is in the 30's. He's also great in that it's a 4cc, so Counterbalance can't usually touch him and Engineered Explosives doesn't typically get him. I have won games with BMA and Cutters when my Grapeshot got Stifled and my 0cc's got EE'd. I've got a buddy who plays a very similar list, but has Shifting Walls and Phyrexian Marauders in there. His Scapegoats aren't as effective and he gets creamed by EE, but his fizzle % is a little bit lower. It's a trade off.

    Re: Cloudston Curio - Tested with it for a while, but the real problem was that it was a 3cc. If it was 2cc, it certainly is crazy as you can cast it early enough and go off on 1 glimpse. I can't say I tested it (or played it optimally) the best it could have been, but the card certainly has potential. I think I cut it when I drew it and only had Memnite, Walker, and Ornithopter in play.

    Thanks for the feedback! I do waffle between the "storm" build of this and the dedicated "BMA" build of this. While the BMA one is more fun, it then loses to other fast combo, which is annoying. It does, however, beat on U control pretty well.

  13. #13
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    Why not use Shifting Wall instead of Cutter? That way, you can even cut the fetches/duals in favor of Gemstone Mine and City of Brass.
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  14. #14

    Re: Cheeri0s

    Quote Originally Posted by kicks_422 View Post
    Why not use Shifting Wall instead of Cutter? That way, you can even cut the fetches/duals in favor of Gemstone Mine and City of Brass.
    Then Scapegoat becomes less effective, as you're almost always paying 0 for the walls and marauders so they aren't around to pull back in. Also, with the walls and shield spheres, you can end up with not enough attackers to trigger BMA in one swing for lethal...

    One note on the fetches: I'm no math major, and I'm sure others can do the statistics, but the way I run the deck it's 53.3% 0cc main deck. To go off with a double glimpse, having two extra lands out of the deck on turn 2 when going off does actually make a statistical difference.

  15. #15
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    Quote Originally Posted by magiclovr View Post
    as your storm count when you're done is in the 30's
    Haze of Rage
    Emblem of the Warmind

    Replace BF and CWZ on the board. This combo is just silly.

    Edit: Now that I think about this, storm 30's = ~22-27 creatures, +1 Emblem, +1 Haze, that's somewhere in the range of 8-900 damage. :-D
    Last edited by KærvekTheMerciless; 04-09-2011 at 08:36 AM. Reason: flexnuts
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  16. #16

    Re: Cheeri0s

    I've been giving a thought about this deck... ins't it just better to run Goblin Bushwhacker instead of beastmaster ascension? i mean, you are gonna win anyway with 20+ creatures 1+/x that happens to have Haste


    also... this deck can have some infinite mana/turns/cards if you add 1 Emrakul, the aeons torn, 1 Time Sieve, 1 Tireless tribe and 1 Spawning pit or 1 goblin bombardment (you can draw everything in your deck with glimpse by turn 2 or 3, anyway)... even Infinite Tokens/dmg!

    the infinite mana comes from drawing all your deck everytime you discard emrakul, then you can use multiples Lotus Petal, and multiple glimpses, the infinite creatures comes from sacrificing your fodder to goblin bombardment or spawning pit, then discarding emrakul, just to buy everything again with glimpse. you can even hardcast emrakul, take how many turns you want with time sieve, or just kill with grapeshot anyway

  17. #17

    Re: Cheeri0s

    A friend who plays a similar list does play with haze of rage and concordant crossroads/mass hysteria. What I don't like about it is that the crossroads/hysteria is another dead card when ur going off and if u open on it u want to cry...

    I've tested it as a G/R with bushwhackers, living wishes, haze, simian spirit guides, etc. While that does make iit a bit more consistent, it does make it a little more brittle to disruption.

    Not saying the SB is great, but having it be more resilient with repeatable sources I dont think is silly...

  18. #18
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    Hi, I also had an idea of a similar deck, but the problem I had was not drawing glimpse, that's where I found another draw engine to support the first one: chalice of the void @ 0 + multani's presence
    (wich let you draw cards from dead petal and chalices as you draw your deck)

    I use Obstinate Familiar as a 1-2 of to make sure i don't die from drawing

    I also use street wraith to play with a smaller deck

    I tried storm entity in the deck (a fizzle with 10 storm count means a 2 turns clock) but I wasn't sure

    I also like the idea of Beastmaster ascension + concordant crossroads for an aggro plan (maybe in SB)

    here is my deck list:

    4 Crimson Kobolds
    4 Crookshank Kobolds
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
    4 Memnite
    1 Obstinate Familiar
    4 Ornithopter
    4 Phyrexian Walker
    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    2 Street Wraith

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Glimpse of Nature
    1 Grapeshot
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Multani's Presence

    4 city of brass

  19. #19
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    Re: Cheeri0s

    I played against a Cheerios list on MWS a little while ago...Gaea's Cradle is effin' NUTS in the deck. Usually, it's the only land the deck needs to go off.

    In 3 games I saw:

    1) 2 games where they landed a turn 1 Garruk Wildspeaker, suspending the Overrun, and attacking FTW on the next turn
    2) 1 game where they didn't get Cradle, but still Glimpse-ed about 10 dudes onto the table and landed Beastmaster Ascension on turn 3.

    The deck is good, and fast. When you can Glimpse turn 1 and get about 10-12 creatures onto the table off of an Elvish Spirit Guide/Lotus Petal, you know that the deck is at least fast enough to compete. Turn 2 wins aren't uncommon, and turn 3 wins are pretty typical. That's fast enough to compete with Elves/TES/ANT and is faster than Sligh/Spring Tide.
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  20. #20

    Re: Cheeri0s

    Cabal Therapy might deserve a home here. You have the means to cast it twice no problem, and since you usually don't care about crippling the other deck, just clearing the way, you can just get rid of the one thing keeping you from going off successfully and leave it at that.

    Beastmaster's Ascension would be a good SB card (they side in anti-storm stuff, you side out your big combo enablers and just attack for the win) but it seems unnecessary in the maindeck, since you can just run Bushwhacker (which actually contributes somewhat to the combo before you've reached the point of winning).

    I would make every effort to squeeze Therapies into the maindeck. I like Diabolic Intent a lot, but in this deck you're not actually using Ritual-esque things to accelerate the deck, so it doesn't really perform the desired function, which is ensuring a turn 2 Glimpse. Personal Tutor is a much better fit here.

    Man, Chalice @ 1 and Mental Misstep just wreck you. I dunno if I'd have the balls to try this at a SCG over something that had a bit more immunity to that sort of thing.

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