View Poll Results: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

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Thread: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

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  1. #1
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    majikal's Avatar
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    Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

    With High Tide taking another win this weekend in Atlanta, it seems the Legacy metagame is beginning to solidify into something less open than we initially thought. As the dust settles, we can begin to see the tiers of the format, and King Combo is poised firmly at the top. Is this sudden resurgence due to a lack of adequate hate being played in players' sideboards or is there a deeper problem? Can the recent uprising of combo decks be explained by any particular banning or unbanning, or is this the result of a soft field with too little experience?

    I personally feel like the sheer amount of different combo decks is having a negative impact. You can prepare for the aggro and control decks that you know you will face at big events, but you almost have to blindly pick a combo deck to hate and hope you don't face the rest of them, as many have completely different weaknesses from one another.

    Thoughts? Is it time to play combo or go home, or do you think the format will regulate itself?

    Edit: Can one of you mods add a poll to this thread? I'd be interested in seeing something quantifiable.
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  2. #2

    Re: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

    We are seeing an issue with matchup percentages keeping combo doing well right now.

    The decks that beat Combo typically have very weak G/x aggro matchups. Things like the various GSZ decks, Elves, Bant Aggro will curb stomp your 2 mana enchantments or misc artifacts far before you find your way into the 3-0/4-0 bracket where you start seeing the unfair decks you impose a much fairer gameplan on. This leaves Combo players who get to walk through extremely low hate (e.g. the bant aggro deck from this past weekend's scg top8) or no hate. The green aggro decks still do well because they see various CB, mirrors, and other decks they just dominate far more often than they run into combo. When it comes to top8, you see 4-6 wolves (dredge, spiral tide, tendrils, painter) with sheep trying to cast sorceries that fetch up dryad arbor.

    If you play something like Dreadstill, and see your very good matchups (which are typically an extremely low portion of the field) before your round 3 you find yourself in a bracket where each round you get to play against something you'll probably crush or some midrange green thing that plays 40ish threats and 20 lands.

    It boils down to beating unfair decks and fair decks at the same time is a pretty hard thing to do, unless of course you just try to be more unfair than your opponent.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

    That Bant deck in the T8 had just 4 Force, 3 Cliques MD to deal with combo. It punishes aggro and counterbalance but it's going to be difficult to take down combo with such a slow clock and just 7 cards that interact with the opponent. I think GSZ really pushed counterbalance off the legacy map and Combo is benefiting greatly from it. Personally, as someone who has played blue for a long time, I would not play Counterbalance right now, because even if I do well in the T8, I might not get there against all that tribal and aggro. I agree with emidln, basically there needs to be a new counterbalance build that can beat GSZ/Tribal. That's not easy as you need to deal with Swarms (Goblins/Folk/Elves) or Bigs (GSZ-> KOTR/Goyf) AND Spells (Natural Order/Equipment). You can't splash too many colours and still be ok against wasteland. The aggro meta is so diverse that it's hard to find the perfect combination to "control" them.

    What's the best strategy? I'd just play a resilient combo deck that craps on aggro and has a fairly ok MU against blue. And since that's literally every viable combo deck, we are seeing those results in the SCG T8s.

    Another option is a return to the traditional sweeper (Wrath/Damnation). Aggro has peeled back speed for power and a better mid range game against the mirror. Is this the time to sleeve up your ancient 4 mana sweepers? Traditional Sweepers solve Swarms, Bigs AND Progenitus/Emrakul. So why not play them? Perhaps a UW countertop-walker shell with Traditional Sweepers would do well right now. Lots of basics paired with STP, Path, Sweepers and Counterbalance could be viable.

  4. #4
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    Re: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

    A traditional UWx CounterTop Thopters list placed 14th at SCG Open Atlanta. It runs lots of basics, StP, Sweepers, and Counterbalance. Coincidence?

  5. #5
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    Re: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

    The deck runs 2 EE and 1 Wrath of god + 7 basics. Good choice, I like. Thopthers is somewhat of a mini combo in itself and if assembled early, can really kick aggro in the balls.

  6. #6
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    Re: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

    Counterbalance is no less diminished by GSZ than Counterbalance is diminished by Qasali Pridemage. GSZ is far worse at sneaking threats through a Counterbalance than AEther Vial. GSZ is a 4-of, often less than that, and grabbing a Goyf with a GSZ for 3 mana, or even a Knight of the Reliquary for 4 mana, doesn't ensure you're dodging Counterbalance anymore.

    I'd say the ressurgence of combo is heavily due to the amount of Vial Aggro and other various aggro decks that popped up at the beginning of this year and started dominating Top 8's. In response to such an aggro heavy metagame, combo is the clear metagame choice. Less players are playing Counterbalance right now because it's subpar against all the various aggro decks designed to beat it. Once combo asserts itself back into the top tier of the metagame, expect to see a ressurgence of Counterbalance. At that point, aggro pops back up, and we get a constant metagame shift every so many months. That's how the cookie crumbles.

    Once players shy away from aggro/control Counterbalance variants and start designing Counterbalance decks that actually beat all the random aggro and Vial Aggro, you'll see a Counterbalance deck that's capable of staying a metagame presence. CounterTop Thopters is more than capable of doing that, as well as my own CounterTop Walker. Supreme Blue, when built correctly, can also do very well against aggro. Players need to realize that when building a Counterbalance deck, they cannot rely on Counterbalance to win them every matchup, and have to have other cards in their deck to handle things. The biggest problem Counterbalance has is AEther Vial, and most Counterbalance decks are cold to it preboard and postboard. Once Control decks fix their Vial Aggro matchup, you'll see a huge ressurgence of control decks in the format.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Are there too many different combo decks in Legacy?

    @ Hanni, I agree with your description of the matchup wheel, but Combo has been dominating the SCGs for some time. And a solution still has not been found for all those Vial/GSZ decks. The last 2 T8s were Combo dominated so I'm guessing the next SCG will be the bounce back for Control. Team America was on top for 2 SCGs, so combo probably won't last longer up there too.

    Care to share your current countertop list? I'll drop by the counter-top walker thread and have a look.

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