The SB Counterspell.Originally Posted by Azunjan
Oh by all means don't change what works for you. Miracles can be easily customized, and everyone favors something slightly different. Say you want to run Ponder and Clique and Snapcaster, is that possible? Well, the GP Kyoto Miracles winner ran both Clique and Ponder. Liberati ran all 3, http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=87182
I guess the point is that it's not mutually exclusive, you can blend. The hybrids can actually do well.
Why is it not possible to have Clique, Snap and Ponder? I don't understand you there. I don't see this as a hybrid, it's definitely Ponder miracles. But there are Cliques in the sideboard, mostly because Jace and Entreat are clunky vs combo decks, the faerie brigade is flashy!
I'm pretty sure I've seen a lot of Ponder lists with Clique in the SB, like in Phillips latest article http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/...ecommendations. As I said, Clique is a fine maindeck card, but I'm going for as consistent a 60 card MD as possible. Yuta Takahashi skimmed one Ponder, one Terminus and one Swords to Plowshares to add the legends package of a Venser and two Cliques. Not really a fan of skimming on those cards personally...but like you said, the hybrids can do well, like he did.
I currently have one MD and one SB, which is working for me but I can't give you a lot more insight than that as I need to play with it more. Maybe the MD one can go.
I've been playing Reanimator and Painter for a while and my friend suggested a more competitive deck and Miracles was his #1 choice. I goldfished the deck a little but the reactive nature of the deck makes this hard as I'm still trying to learn what hands are worth keeping/trying not to waste shuffle effects. I took the deck to my local LGS for some practice at the weekly event. When I was reading some of the Miracle primers and Philipp Schonegger's articles on the deck, I found it extremely strange that you would actually side out Forces.
Creatures (2)
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (36)
1 Pyroblast
2 Ponder
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Terminus
2 Dig Through Time
Lands (22)
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Wear // Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Containment Priest
1 Rest in Peace
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Monastery Mentor
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Misdirection
Abysmal record of 1-2-1
R1 Mono-U Omni against my best friend
He already knows what I'm on and what list I'm using so big disadvantage for me. Game 1 was a fight over his Show and Tells, after the third one I have no forces left in my hand and he drops Omni and I drop Counterbalance. I get lucky with blind 1 drop flips, so this game gets drawn out. I was about to cast entreat for the win on end of his turn but out of nowhere he stifles the miracle trigger and my counterbalance doesn't get lucky on the flip. Eventually he finds spaghetti monster to kill me.
Game 2 -1 Entreat, -3 Swords, -2 Terminus, +1 Pyroblast, +1 Wear/Tear, +2 Clique, +1 Misdirection, +1 Flusterstorm. I establish Countertop lock early. He show and tells after seeing I have no forces in my hand, luckily I was floating a clique. This matchup I won using Elspeth pumped tokens.
Game 3- Game 1 and 2 were drawn out. This one ended on turns. Yet again Elspeth here for me was acting as a threat to him. My friend gives me some pointers and stressing to cut Elspeth when I get the 3rd Jace.
R2 Spiral Tide
I seriously cannot remember what went on in this match. I feel like I should have won this match but I simply did not have enough counterspells to fight him. I remember I get one game when I flusterstormed the high tide. Any pointers on how to deal with this matchup especially is appreciated.
R3 Grixis Delver
I missed at least two counterbalance triggers and made a lot of misplays here. This game I learn that you could lock people out of CMC1 with Top and Counterbalance in play by using the tap ability of Top. Izzet Staticaster was a beast here dealing with young peezy and friends, however that new Delve fatty ends up being a huge problem for me.
R4 Sort of a free win Burn
Game 1 I get hosed hard with Eidolon fishing for removal to deal with his dudes.
-1 Pyroblast, -3 Terminus, +1 Misdirection, +1 Baneslayer, -1 Elspeth, +1 Wear//Tear, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Clique
Game 2 I kept an iffy one land hand but it had Top, Balance, Baneslayer, brainstorm, and Force x2. His goblin guide ended up being the gift that kept giving netting me three lands. When I casted Baneslayer things started looking better for me. Jace ends up being Force fodder this game. 4 Turns later it was victory.
Game 3 Pithing Needle on Top, he counters both of my counterbalances with Pyroblasts. Most of the game he is actually reacting to my counterbalances/countermagic. I counted a total of 6 Red blast effects used against me. He ended up dropping no threats against me which left him open to an entreat for 5 sealing his fate.
I am new to miracles as well (well legacy to be honest) and I chose this deck. All I can say is that I expect to lose a lot with the deck. So many little interactions but there's only one way to learn them all
First, You don't need Elspeth or 3rd Jace. If you look at SCG Baltimore IQ, 2 JtMS can Top 8 just fine. Of course, none runs Elspeth. If you want a White Win-condition that's not Entreat, you should give Mentor a try.
Second, what is so extremely strange about SB-out Forces against Fair decks? Wouldn't you rather 1-for-1 instead of spending 2 cards on opponent's one threat?
I haven't played against it with Miracles (I have while piloting other decks) but I say don't let the first High Tide resolve. If it does, you absolutely cannot let Time Spiral resolve.
I suppose the line would be this: first see what turn he's trying to go off. Usually they wait until they have 4 Islands. Always be mindful of the number of cards in their hand. You want to FoW at a time where 1) you don't think they can possibly have a FoW or 2) if they FoW back, it's at a great disadvantage to them.
Flusterstorm is a little weaker here towards the end of the combo because they can literally make hundreds of floating blue mana, as well as Cunning Wish for their own FStorm, so don't wait for Brainfreeze or BSZ to get cast.
This is a MU where Ethersworn Canonist is your best friend. In fact, I feel that this particular meta is perfect for Canonist and all decks that can run her should have at least one of her. Get rid of Baneslayer Angel; it's not good tech anymore since Sneak Show isn't played as much, and plus you can put it in against Sneak Show anyway, then Swords their GBrand and they can't do anything because they already wasted their 1 non-artifact spell for the turn. If they put in 15/15, then hope to god you find a Karakas or Terminus.
R3 Grixis Delver
This game I learn that you could lock people out of CMC1 with Top and Counterbalance in play by using the tap ability of Top.Live and let learn I suppose, but that's usually the first thing you learn when sleeving the deck up.
I haven't played against it with Miracles (I have while piloting other decks) but I say don't let the first High Tide resolve. If it does, you absolutely cannot let Time Spiral resolve.
I suppose the line would be this: first see what turn he's trying to go off. Usually they wait until they have 4 Islands. Always be mindful of the number of cards in their hand. You want to FoW at a time where 1) you don't think they can possibly have a FoW or 2) if they FoW back, it's at a great disadvantage to them.
Flusterstorm is a little weaker here towards the end of the combo because they can literally make hundreds of floating blue mana, as well as Cunning Wish for their own FStorm, so don't wait for Brainfreeze or BSZ to get cast.
This is a MU where Ethersworn Canonist is your best friend. In fact, I feel that this particular meta is perfect for Canonist and all decks that can run her should have at least one of her. Get rid of Baneslayer Angel; it's not good tech anymore since Sneak Show isn't played as much, and plus you can put it in against Sneak Show anyway, then Swords their GBrand and they can't do anything because they already wasted their 1 non-artifact spell for the turn. If they put in 15/15, then hope to god you find a Karakas or Terminus.
High Tide decks need 3 things to combo off.
1) Mana Mulitpliers - High Tide
2) Untaps - Turnabout, Candle, Timespiral, Reset
3) Draws - DTT, Meditate, Timespiral, Cantrips
When they are comboing off, you need to determine board state plus information derived from their merchant scrolls on which one of those 3 they are lacking.
The objective is to disrupt that area they are lacking in the most.
Game 2 & 3 get significantly easier when you board in your Red Blasts, Cliques, and flusterstorms.
Thank you all for the input, this is quite an enjoyable challenge learning this deck. The guy's in the shop joke that they hate my choice in decks they never know if I'm going to use Reanimator/Painter or bring in some screwball build like Stasis.
I'm so used to in Reanimator not really caring about 2 for 1'ing myself as long as my combo went off, it's something I'm still getting used to. I was testing Mentor in MTGO, so far he's been pretty bonkers I'm going to try a single mainboarded one instead of Elspeth.
Burn is such a huge part of my meta that I always put it into account, hence why I considered the old Walletslayer maybe it was overkill.. But yes I've noticed Omni is on an uptick, they finally outnumbered the burn kids so I'm going to see if my painter deck has an extra Ethersworn. In terms of my manabase I thought about a single mystic gate to help deal with Choke effects and I'm not sure about including my one Karakas since I'm not on the legends build.I haven't played against it with Miracles (I have while piloting other decks) but I say don't let the first High Tide resolve. If it does, you absolutely cannot let Time Spiral resolve.
I suppose the line would be this: first see what turn he's trying to go off. Usually they wait until they have 4 Islands. Always be mindful of the number of cards in their hand. You want to FoW at a time where 1) you don't think they can possibly have a FoW or 2) if they FoW back, it's at a great disadvantage to them.
Flusterstorm is a little weaker here towards the end of the combo because they can literally make hundreds of floating blue mana, as well as Cunning Wish for their own FStorm, so don't wait for Brainfreeze or BSZ to get cast.
This is a MU where Ethersworn Canonist is your best friend. In fact, I feel that this particular meta is perfect for Canonist and all decks that can run her should have at least one of her. Get rid of Baneslayer Angel; it's not good tech anymore since Sneak Show isn't played as much, and plus you can put it in against Sneak Show anyway, then Swords their GBrand and they can't do anything because they already wasted their 1 non-artifact spell for the turn. If they put in 15/15, then hope to god you find a Karakas or Terminus.
I did notice on game 2 my opponent was using all of his merchant scrolls for his forces. I'm assuming because of that he already had a multiplier and an untap effect in his hand.
I don't play a Legends build, though I suppose you could say I'm playing a hybrid (3 Ponder, 1 Karakas, 3 legends in the board—2 Clique, 1 Venser). Karakas is often just a bad plains, but I'd rather it be in than not, especially with Gaddock Teeg becoming more and more popular. It's also decent against Thalia.
As for Choke, that card will always be a pain to play against. The best you can hope for is either countering it (I'm a-okay turning it into a 3-mana Hymn) or drawing your W//T. Decks running Choke will almost always be those utilizing Wasteland, so that Mystic Gate isn't going to be doing much. And exposing yourself to Wasteland decks in general is not great because we do want to hit all our land drops.
This is one of my big arguments for Council's Judgment, Choke. It's become incredibly popular (for good reason). CJ counters Choke with a CB, and you can cast it from your two basic plains.
Has anyone tried cutting a Plains for a Plateau in the 20-land, MD Pyroblast lists that have been appearing lately? I'm thinking of trying it out this week at a local Legacy event, it seems not terrible.
If you want another red source, add another Volcanic Island instead. Having access to two plains is way too important to be able to play all the spells in your deck (bar Pyros, but they mostly matter vs non-wasteland decks) off basics as well as combat Wasteland + Port without wasting other resources.
Last edited by Whitefaces; 07-04-2015 at 06:16 AM.
GP LILLE trial winners
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...015-2015-07-04
You begin to notice the 20 lands Miracles. One Legend Miracles was on the Wizards beatdown plan with 0 Entreats.
Any news about Ein and Lille?
On my phone.
I think he finished day 1 with with 15 points, so either 5-3 or 5-4
Julian and Philipp all had byes, but still could not make Day 2. Looking at Day 2 stat:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...ame-2015-07-05
Out of 163, Miracles was the most popular archetype. In other words, there might be plenty of mirrors among different Miracles builds.
i dont thing that einherjer won a trial since i cant find him in the list of the trial winner?
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...015-2015-07-04
he had 2 byes and played 3-3 then ....i dont thing that einherjer won a trial since i cant find him in the list of the trial winner?
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...015-2015-07-04
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...lts-2015-07-04
So, mental Mentor. Should probably give that guy a try.
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