Miracle Control

[Gros]

Starting from the 4 ponder stock list, i'd like to edit it a little bit to tune it for my expected metagame:
the place where i play is going to be filled with grixis pyromance decks both aggro and midrangey versions ( see links posted down for reference)
Aggro version : http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/289765#online
Control version: http://www.quietspeculation.com/2015...rol-in-legacy/
the field is rich with combo decks too ( Ant and Omnitell), and the rest was basically Jeskai blade, some BG x ( Team America and Jund) and random stuff...

initially i thought that finding room for some rebs maindeck and Staticaster/ Pyroclasm sb would be a good way to start,i'm trying out something like this and i'm having an hard time figuring out what to cut for 1/2x Rebs maindeck

4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains

3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgment

SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1/2 Rest in Peace/ Relic of progenitus
SB: 1 Monastery Mentor
SB: 1 Pyroclasm/Izzet staticaster
SB: 0/1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist

i'm trying out something like this and i'm having an hard time figuring out what to cut for 1/2x Rebs maindeck.

How would you tune the deck?, does anybody have experience in playing these pyromancer decks?, any suggestions on the gameplan, boarding etc? Given the meta what would you cut for 1x or 2x Rebs main? does it seems like it's worth it given the meta? Do you think is better to have Staticaster or Pyroclasm in SB?

[l33twash0r]

Any thoughts on Moat on sideboard when metagame has alot of creature decks?
Im starting with this deck and wondering what I should have in my SB.

[CutthroatCasual]

Any thoughts on Moat on sideboard when metagame has alot of creature decks?
Im starting with this deck and wondering what I should have in my SB.

Depends on which creature decks, but most creatures in Legacy are x/2 or weaker, so 1 or 2 Pyroclasms seems strong.

Supreme Verdict is a given (if you're not already running it main).

[Poron]

I have just win a BUG matchup judt for Pyroclasm and Entreat! I find Abrupt Decay so unstoppable that I want always to side out Counterbalance.. I would try some Redirect for
Ancestral Vision
Hymn
Thoughtseize
Abrupt Decay

it can be devastating. Also double Karakas (1side) in all mid-games matchup is so strong..

[Serch]

Depends on which creature decks, but most creatures in Legacy are x/2 or weaker, so 1 or 2 Pyroclasms seems strong.

Supreme Verdict is a given (if you're not already running it main).

I'm aggree with you, pyroclasm is a better choice right now.

[JPoJohnson]

I know that it requires RR, but would you every consider Volcanic Fallout if UR is heavy in your meta? I don't think I would, but I'm just curious.

[exallium]

I know that it requires RR, but would you every consider Volcanic Fallout if UR is heavy in your meta? I don't think I would, but I'm just curious.

This is highly dependant on your manabase and how many copies of Wasteland you expect to see. I, as many others, don't run a basic mountain at all, and thus Volcanic Fallout isn't on my radar at all. It's way too greedy a cost for a deck that doesn't want to be fetching Red vs UR to begin with.

[Poron]

UR plays Delver, Young Pyro and Swiftspear.. Pyroclasm and is like THE card in that matchup..

Izzet Staticaster is also great because it dodges Pierces..

[toletole]

Hello, just wanted to know your opinion on DTT.
We can all agree that the effect is awesome still I belive that is the worst card in the deck. I mean if I were to change a card, probably would be DTT.
Behind I leave my current build (pretty standard), what are your thoughts on swapping both DDT for 2 REB? (also could probably open up a side slot).
Thank you!

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace the Mindsculptor
1 Council's Judgement

4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain

Side
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wear//Tear
1 Blood Moon

[Lormador]

I don't know whom you're asking, but when the subject turns to the worst card in the deck, I think that dubious honor belongs to Council's Judgment. I understand how necessary this function is in the deck and how the card makes the deck better, but it's clunky even in the matchups where it's most needed. I don't like stressing my mana against DnT to cast this thing, but I need to do it if that's the way the deck has given me to kill Aether Vial or Batterskull. Neither does the fact that it doesn't target become useful that much. TNN is pretty easy for this deck to kill. Lingering Souls was tougher.

As clunky as it is, running Vindicate is too horrible to contemplate so I guess I should be grateful this option exists. The deck is so wonderful that I feel weird saying that any card in it is the worst one.

DTT is great though, I can't imagine going back to the days when I played without it. It's the perfect pressure spell when I'm winding up for the turn that will put away the game, or help me claw back into one that's been getting away from me. Jace would often be awkward in a lot of those places, a 4 mana Brainstorm basically.

[YamiJoey]

Entreat is the worst card in the deck by a wide margine.

[toletole]

I don't know whom you're asking, but when the subject turns to the worst card in the deck, I think that dubious honor belongs to Council's Judgment. I understand how necessary this function is in the deck and how the card makes the deck better, but it's clunky even in the matchups where it's most needed. I don't like stressing my mana against DnT to cast this thing, but I need to do it if that's the way the deck has given me to kill Aether Vial or Batterskull. Neither does the fact that it doesn't target become useful that much. TNN is pretty easy for this deck to kill. Lingering Souls was tougher.

As clunky as it is, running Vindicate is too horrible to contemplate so I guess I should be grateful this option exists. The deck is so wonderful that I feel weird saying that any card in it is the worst one.

DTT is great though, I can't imagine going back to the days when I played without it. It's the perfect pressure spell when I'm winding up for the turn that will put away the game, or help me claw back into one that's been getting away from me. Jace would often be awkward in a lot of those places, a 4 mana Brainstorm basically.

Thanks for your answer.
English is not my native language so I will try to explain myself the best I can.
DTT it's a great card we agree on that. But lately I've playing against a lot of Omnitell and mirror matches where I really miss REB effects main deck (also there are some hybrid countertop stoneblade in my meta at least). It seems that the legendary build it's very well suited to fight against those decks because of all the tools they have (blasts and venser) and the ponder list i'm not so sure right now: with the 4 ponder and 2 dtt it's like a lot of drawing but no so much real action. I really think that Ponder is the correct way to go, but I'm not so sure about DTT.

About EtA, I don't know man, that card is very hard to deal for most of the decks. Specially BGx (that are a considerable part of the meta).

[Cipher]

Entreat is the worst card in the deck by a wide margine.

Wow. Next it'll be "Terminus is a bad Swords to Plowshares". I already heard it once.

Everyone seems to be down to 2 Jaces. The miracles are a terrible with Dig, but give Jace half his strength. This whole progression seems to be happening slowly, but in the end I can see a Ponder/Dig CounterTop deck coming about that doesn't even run miracles. Mentor would be much stronger in that deck and you wouldn't lose it to Terminus.

[Bobmans]

Wow. Next it'll be "Terminus is a bad Swords to Plowshares". I already heard it once.

Everyone seems to be down to 2 Jaces. The miracles are a terrible with Dig, but give Jace half his strength. This whole progression seems to be happening slowly, but in the end I can see a Ponder/Dig CounterTop deck coming about that doesn't even run miracles. Mentor would be much stronger in that deck and you wouldn't lose it to Terminus.

UW CounterTop Stoneblade...

[PhyrexianLibrarian]

Wow. Next it'll be "Terminus is a bad Swords to Plowshares". I already heard it once.

Everyone seems to be down to 2 Jaces. The miracles are a terrible with Dig, but give Jace half his strength. This whole progression seems to be happening slowly, but in the end I can see a Ponder/Dig CounterTop deck coming about that doesn't even run miracles. Mentor would be much stronger in that deck and you wouldn't lose it to Terminus.

I think he's right. Entreat and Judgment are the only cards in the deck that require WW, and Entreat is the one that you almost never want to see until you've got the game locked up, i.e. until you've seen most of your other cards already to survive to that point. Judgment is still OK to draw early against Lilianas, equipment, and so on, but an early Entreat is a nightmare. I'm definitely going down to 1 main, and I wouldn't be surprised to see decks eventually run their Entreats in the sideboard entirely.

[decan]

DTT isnt even close to being an below average (the average in miracles is very high) card. DTT is the card that gives miracles an additional 10%. Especially against decks with discard, DTT almost punishes the opponent for playing a hymn or in fact any discard spell. before DTT miracles was 50% against BG/x decks at most. Now i feel the matches are 50% at least.

There is much talk about banning entreat, terminus, top... but if wizards wants to ban any card from my beloved deck, it has DTT. Once you ban DTT the BG/x decks will be more popular again. But yeah this is another discussion.

Council's Judgment is arguably a bad card. But there is a risk in not playing it because you dont have an answer to a resolved XXX (insert high power card here, like aether vial). I wouldnt play CJ in the SB, but its an absolutely good maindeck card.

Entreat is just nuts. So basically anyone who believes all entreats and/or DTT are replaceable should leave this forum.

[toletole]

My bad for trying to get some feedback in this arrogant forum

[fluuu]

What do u guys think about the 4daze/4mentor list? Thanks!

[YamiJoey]

I'm playing 2 Mentors and no Dazes. If you start adding Dazes and going to a high number of threats, you're no longer a Control deck, and you're playing something totally different. I'd suggest adding Stoneforge Mystic at that point and just playing UWx Blade.

Entreat is the worst card in the deck. I've been doing fairly successfully without it, and I would've attended Lille with 0 copies in my 75 if I would've been able to go.

[fluuu]

daze is a card nobody expects so as a surprise factor it could be good,