Miracle Control

[Quasim0ff]

Hey Anuraag,
Congratulation for your finish :)

Did you stick on your 4 predicts list ?
I'm very curious about the 75 you had registered

Yeah, he played the 4 predicts.

He was 11-2, losing the last 2 rounds, to the mirror and to SnT :(

Wilson Hunter got 12-3, good for 23th I believe.

[princeofperasia]

Congrats to all Miracle representatives at Louisville!

Looks like all you need is 2 Volcanic Islands... RIP to our favorite Top spinner, basic Mountain



Edit: I've been meaning to ask earlier, but has anyone else been suspicious of MTGO shuffler? At an alarmingly high frequency, when I Spin -> Fetch -> Spin, I seem to get the same 3 cards on top of my deck. Similarly, when I Ponder and shuffle, I'll draw one of the same three cards. I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid, but just curious if anyone else has been running into the same effect.

[oarsman]

I have been feeling that I redrew the same card off Ponder shuffles at an unusually high frequency lately. I was thinking that the first card was sticking and the rest of the deck was shuffling. I didn't say anything because it was so likely that I was only noticing the times when it happened and forgetting each time it worked correctly. I am not convinced it happens, but definitely suspicious.

[AnziD]

Hey Anuraag,
Congratulation for your finish :)

Did you stick on your 4 predicts list ?
I'm very curious about the 75 you had registered

Sadly I did not perform as well as I wished. I was 14-4 over the weekend (5-0'd a grinder, 11-4 main event with 2 byes), which maintains consistent with my ~75% win rate. I ended up playing my 4 predict list:

4 Top, Brainstorm, Ponder, Predict, STP, Terminus, FOW
3 Counterbalance
2 JTMS, ETA, SCM
1 CJ, CS, EE
20L

3 Flusterstorm
2 REB, Pyro, Surgical, W/T
1 Mountain, FTA, CPriest, EE

Grinder:
R1 - Lands (WIN 2:0)
R2 - SNT (WIN 2:0)
R3 - Junk PW (WIN 2:1)
R4 - DNT (WIN 2:0)
R5 - Mirror (WIN 2:0)

Main Event:
R1 - Bye
R2 - Bye
R3 - SNT (WIN 2:1)
R4 - Grixis Delver (WIN 2:0)
R5 - Grixis Delver (WIN 2:1)
R6 - BUG "Malimujo" Delver (WIN 2:0)
R7 - 4C "Jarvus" Delver by Denis Ulanov (WIN 2:1)
R8 - Infect (LOSS 0:2)
R9 - Miracles by Lawrence Harmon (WIN 2:0)
R10 - Miracles (WIN 2:1)
R11 - Mono R Stompy (WIN 2:1)
R12 - BUG Stifle Delver by Paolo Cesari (LOSS 1:2)
R13 - DNT (WIN 2:1)
R14 - Miracles by Kyles Boggemes (LOSS 1:2)
R15 - SNT by Adam Jansen (LOSS 1:2)

I think a better player would have made top 8. In my R12 and R15 losses, I had the cards to win but made the wrong plays. My other losses involved games where my deck imploded, which is just Magic - it happens.

[Quasim0ff]

I am fairly certain the ponder shuffle is broke on Mtgo. I don't have any statistics but I honestly believe it's more than 70% when I shuffle I redraw the card I put on top. I often put a one off on top, just to test and I draw it so often.

[Philipp2293]

I am fairly certain the ponder shuffle is broke on Mtgo. I don't have any statistics but I honestly believe it's more than 70% when I shuffle I redraw the card I put on top. I often put a one off on top, just to test and I draw it so often.

On a related note, I noticed something similar with Courser of Kruphix and a Fetchland in play.

[icedagger]

I am fairly certain the ponder shuffle is broke on Mtgo. I don't have any statistics but I honestly believe it's more than 70% when I shuffle I redraw the card I put on top. I often put a one off on top, just to test and I draw it so often.

I think even fetchlands have the same problem. Really annoying when you're trying to shuffle away a card but it keeps popping up in your top 3 after shuffling. I wouldn't say it was as high as 70% but it happens frequently enough to make you think something is up.

[hoodwinked]

Edit: I've been meaning to ask earlier, but has anyone else been suspicious of MTGO shuffler? At an alarmingly high frequency, when I Spin -> Fetch -> Spin, I seem to get the same 3 cards on top of my deck. Similarly, when I Ponder and shuffle, I'll draw one of the same three cards. I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid, but just curious if anyone else has been running into the same effect.

Not a MTGO nor Miracles player, but I watch oarsman79 stream. It's been driving me a little nuts lately - I'm convinced the deck doesn't shuffle on certain occasions, as the top 3 don't change at all. I know that's not unlikely to happen, but seeing it several times over the course of a few hour is very suspicious.

[hyp3r1on]

Just a brief little report from Louisville. I finished 11-4 in 75th place, good for 2 pps. I didn't really make any specific metagame decisions and ended up playing a list I was extremely comfortable with. I attribute my losses to getting a bit unlucky and keeping exceptionally greedy hands versus infect. Overall, I think I played pretty greedily all tournament and definitely attribute some of my losses versus Delver to greedy plays. That said i think i played pretty tight in a lot of other games and spots. Matchups were:

R1: Bye
R2: Bye
R3: 2-0 vs ANT
R4: 1-2 vs BUG Midrange
R5: 2-1 vs Mono Red Sneak Attack
R6: 2-0 vs Death and taxes
R7: 2-0 vs Food Chain
R8: 1-2 vs BUG Delver
R9: 2-1 vs RG Lands
R10: 2-0 vs Miracles
R11: 2-1 vs Grixis Delver
R12: 0-2 vs Sneak and Show
R13: 2-0 vs Miracles
R14: 0-2 vs Infect
R15: 2-0 vs Bant Stoneblade

List I played was:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
3 Ponder
2 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Council's Judgment
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Engineered Explosives

3 Flusterstorm
2 Back to Basics
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Wear Tear
1 Moat
1 Red Elemental Blast

Highlights of the weekend were crushing Vintage side events with UW Landstill, hanging out with fellow Miracles players/Magic players all weekend, and two egregious punts by my r7 food chain opponent that cost him the game up to and including missing an Emrakul Annhilator trigger.

[MXG]

I have been feeling that I redrew the same card off Ponder shuffles at an unusually high frequency lately. I was thinking that the first card was sticking and the rest of the deck was shuffling. I didn't say anything because it was so likely that I was only noticing the times when it happened and forgetting each time it worked correctly. I am not convinced it happens, but definitely suspicious.

It happens a fairly high amount to me, too. Enough so that if I want to shuffle off of a Ponder, I'll still put the card I most want to see on top. More often than randomness would suggest (I think? Humans are notoriously terrible at this kind of stuff since we look for patterns where there aren't any), I get that top card.

I haven't said anything until now, but I've been thinking about it a lot.

[lordofthepit]

I have been feeling that I redrew the same card off Ponder shuffles at an unusually high frequency lately. I was thinking that the first card was sticking and the rest of the deck was shuffling. I didn't say anything because it was so likely that I was only noticing the times when it happened and forgetting each time it worked correctly. I am not convinced it happens, but definitely suspicious.

I am fairly certain the ponder shuffle is broke on Mtgo. I don't have any statistics but I honestly believe it's more than 70% when I shuffle I redraw the card I put on top. I often put a one off on top, just to test and I draw it so often.

It happens a fairly high amount to me, too. Enough so that if I want to shuffle off of a Ponder, I'll still put the card I most want to see on top. More often than randomness would suggest (I think? Humans are notoriously terrible at this kind of stuff since we look for patterns where there aren't any), I get that top card.

I haven't said anything until now, but I've been thinking about it a lot.

I went ahead and tested the shuffler in solitaire mode for two games with a deck designed to do nothing but cantrip into Ponder and Portent, and I feel pretty confident in saying that at least in solitaire mode, Ponder and Portent both work as intended.



I recorded the three cards I stacked with Ponder or Portent, as well as the number of copies of that card remaining in my library in parentheses. I shuffled on every instance and recorded the card drawn off the "blind" Ponder or Portent. In all eleven occasions, I drew a different card than the one stacked on top, and it does not appear that I am any more likely to drop the middle or bottom card either.

	Cantrip Cast	Top Card	Middle Card	Bottom Card	Card Drawn
Game 1	Ponder	Preordain (2)	Serum Visions (4)	Gush (4)	Treasure Cruise
Game 1	Ponder	Serum Visions (4)	Portent (4)	Portent (4)	Scalding Tarn
Game 1	Ponder	Dig Through Time (3)	Gush (4)	Gush (4)	Gush
Game 1	Portent	Flooded Strand (1)	Tundra (1)	Dig Through Time (3)	Treasure Cruise
Game 2	Ponder	Gush (4)	Volcanic Island (1)	Flooded Strand (3)	Flooded Strand
Game 2	Ponder	Gush (4)	Scalding Tarn (3)	Scalding Tarn (3)	Gitaxian Probe
Game 2	Portent	Underground Sea (1)	Preordain (3)	Dig Through Time (3)	Serum Visions
Game 2	Portent	Polluted Delta (2)	Serum Visions (3)	Cruise (3)	Preordain
Game 2	Portent	Underground Sea (1)	Serum Visions (2)	Dig Through Time (2)	Polluted Delta
Game 2	Portent	Ponder (2)	Gush (3)	Serum Visions (3)	Scalding Tarn
Game 2	Ponder	Thought Scour (2)	Treasure Cruise (1)	Gush (1)	Brainstorm

[lordofthepit]

Also, I want my tickets that I wasted on Serum Visions back.

[mike1987]

Just a brief little report from Louisville. I finished 11-4 in 75th place, good for 2 pps. I didn't really make any specific metagame decisions and ended up playing a list I was extremely comfortable with. I attribute my losses to getting a bit unlucky and keeping exceptionally greedy hands versus infect. Overall, I think I played pretty greedily all tournament and definitely attribute some of my losses versus Delver to greedy plays. That said i think i played pretty tight in a lot of other games and spots. Matchups were:

R1: Bye
R2: Bye
R3: 2-0 vs ANT
R4: 1-2 vs BUG Midrange
R5: 2-1 vs Mono Red Sneak Attack
R6: 2-0 vs Death and taxes
R7: 2-0 vs Food Chain
R8: 1-2 vs BUG Delver
R9: 2-1 vs RG Lands
R10: 2-0 vs Miracles
R11: 2-1 vs Grixis Delver
R12: 0-2 vs Sneak and Show
R13: 2-0 vs Miracles
R14: 0-2 vs Infect
R15: 2-0 vs Bant Stoneblade

List I played was:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
3 Ponder
2 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Council's Judgment
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Engineered Explosives

3 Flusterstorm
2 Back to Basics
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Wear Tear
1 Moat
1 Red Elemental Blast

Highlights of the weekend were crushing Vintage side events with UW Landstill, hanging out with fellow Miracles players/Magic players all weekend, and two egregious punts by my r7 food chain opponent that cost him the game up to and including missing an Emrakul Annhilator trigger.

Congrats! Its a beautiful list. How does it feel cutting a playset of ponder to 3, any specific reasons cause Phillip has been pushing for it intensely.

http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/...and-prix-chiba

Do you feel it has any effect on the game play?

[hyp3r1on]

Congrats! Its a beautiful list. How does it feel cutting a playset of ponder to 3, any specific reasons cause Phillip has been pushing for it intensely.

http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/...and-prix-chiba

Do you feel it has any effect on the game play?

In my GP Columbus Top 8 list, I ran 4 Ponders and have been playing 4 Ponders until up to about a month ago. Running only 3 definitely cuts into the overall consistency of the deck, but I won and top 8d a few 1ks leading up to the GP with this build so I felt reasonably comfortable with it. The idea was that I wanted to make room for both EE and Council's Judgment as I was expecting a lot of DNT/Chalice decks/Leovolds etc. All of those strategies really punish durdling around with cantrips. I fundamentally agree with Philip that it's wrong not to run a full suite of Ponders, so in that sense I don't think I was playing an optimized list. Between now and GP Vegas I'll definitely be putting in the time to coming up with a list and trying different things. I absolutely think 4 Ponders is where people should be at in non-Legends builds.

[CutthroatCasual]

I absolutely think 4 Ponders is where people should be at in non-Legends builds.

My MD list is very, very similar to yours -1 Volc -1 Jace +1 Karakas +1 Clique. I'm not sure what is meant by the quoted statement but often I find the 4-Ponder list to spend a little too much time cantripping (so I guess that's what you mean by going to 3 in a Legends build since you could be replacing the Ponder with pressure). I think if you run Mentor as your main (maybe supplemented with 1-of ETA) MD wincon then yea 4-Ponder is where you want to be. But I don't think limiting yourself by saying that if you're not playing a strict Legends build that you MUST be running 4 Ponder is correct.

[CutthroatCasual]

I went ahead and tested the shuffler in solitaire mode for two games with a deck designed to do nothing but cantrip into Ponder and Portent, and I feel pretty confident in saying that at least in solitaire mode, Ponder and Portent both work as intended.



I recorded the three cards I stacked with Ponder or Portent, as well as the number of copies of that card remaining in my library in parentheses. I shuffled on every instance and recorded the card drawn off the "blind" Ponder or Portent. In all eleven occasions, I drew a different card than the one stacked on top, and it does not appear that I am any more likely to drop the middle or bottom card either.

	Cantrip Cast	Top Card	Middle Card	Bottom Card	Card Drawn
Game 1	Ponder	Preordain (2)	Serum Visions (4)	Gush (4)	Treasure Cruise
Game 1	Ponder	Serum Visions (4)	Portent (4)	Portent (4)	Scalding Tarn
Game 1	Ponder	Dig Through Time (3)	Gush (4)	Gush (4)	Gush
Game 1	Portent	Flooded Strand (1)	Tundra (1)	Dig Through Time (3)	Treasure Cruise
Game 2	Ponder	Gush (4)	Volcanic Island (1)	Flooded Strand (3)	Flooded Strand
Game 2	Ponder	Gush (4)	Scalding Tarn (3)	Scalding Tarn (3)	Gitaxian Probe
Game 2	Portent	Underground Sea (1)	Preordain (3)	Dig Through Time (3)	Serum Visions
Game 2	Portent	Polluted Delta (2)	Serum Visions (3)	Cruise (3)	Preordain
Game 2	Portent	Underground Sea (1)	Serum Visions (2)	Dig Through Time (2)	Polluted Delta
Game 2	Portent	Ponder (2)	Gush (3)	Serum Visions (3)	Scalding Tarn
Game 2	Ponder	Thought Scour (2)	Treasure Cruise (1)	Gush (1)	Brainstorm

Test in non-solitaire mode? Like in a playtest lobby or something?

[hyp3r1on]

But I don't think limiting yourself by saying that if you're not playing a strict Legends build that you MUST be running 4 Ponder is correct.

This is most likely true, it's just something I haven't devoted a lot of thought to post-GP.

[mike1987]

In my GP Columbus Top 8 list, I ran 4 Ponders and have been playing 4 Ponders until up to about a month ago. Running only 3 definitely cuts into the overall consistency of the deck, but I won and top 8d a few 1ks leading up to the GP with this build so I felt reasonably comfortable with it. The idea was that I wanted to make room for both EE and Council's Judgment as I was expecting a lot of DNT/Chalice decks/Leovolds etc. All of those strategies really punish durdling around with cantrips. I fundamentally agree with Philip that it's wrong not to run a full suite of Ponders, so in that sense I don't think I was playing an optimized list. Between now and GP Vegas I'll definitely be putting in the time to coming up with a list and trying different things. I absolutely think 4 Ponders is where people should be at in non-Legends builds.

Thanks for your explanation. I was thinking maybe cutting down ponders can also help hedge against chalice of the void, since there are so many running around these days, one less dead card in your hand. I have been experimenting between cadei's list but somehow 20 lands seemed too little or that i am not the miracles master he is. I feel that the correct number is 21 but the card slots are really tight. What would you advise cutting?

Creatures [5]
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage

Instants [14]

2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [10]
1 Council's Judgment
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
4 Terminus

Enchantments [4]
4 Counterbalance

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [5]
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [20]
1 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
3 Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

[Ghiwo]

Hello guys,

I'm fairly new to the deck, as it's just a couple months since I picked it up. I'd like to ask you some questions, as you're all more experienced than me and for sure you can help me improve and understand more the deck. I'm sorry in advance if this is nothing new to you or it's something you find trivial.


- First of all I'd like to ask you why nobody doesn't play anymore the Daze version that let Claudio Bonanni lift the trophy in Lille. It seems to me that Daze could be pretty good right now, as the meta develops around highly costed spells, such as True Name Nemesis, Leovold, Show and Tell, Aluren, Sneak Attack. Also it seems to have and edge in the mirror. What's the reason behind it's disappearence from decklists?

- Second, what do you think about BBD's Louisville list? I'm asking that because the list seems really different from the ones I can lurk in this thread. No Entreat, no Council, full set of Ponder, just 2 Jaces and a total of 3 Mentors. Do you think it's a solid choice? What are its benefits compared to a stock list with EtA, Council, Predict, 0-2 Mentors?

Thanks a lot and sorry if you got botherd or bored reading my post

[CutthroatCasual]

This is most likely true, it's just something I haven't devoted a lot of thought to post-GP.

I piloted my 3-Ponder-Hybrid list to 6-3-left round 10 to go home early at EW NA 2016. I never found myself wanting the 4th Ponder in any of the rounds I lost. I do think at 2 is too few, but 3 or 4 really comes down to the pilot's preference with what direction they want to take their build in.