I'm not saying that I'm thinking about cutting Top or anything, but we don't need it to win. We play a deck with obscenely overpowered cards, and a tonne of ways to find those cards. We effectively have up to six copies of every low-mana Spell in the deck, including Brainstorm and Ponder, so setting up for a reasonable control game works just fine without Top. If someone decides to Needle my Top then I will attempt to play around with it in some way, but I'm not going to spend the whole game trying to blow up their 1-mana Artifact. We're not Dredge, we can play a good game if they turn off one or two cards. I've beaten people whilst they had Null Rod + Needle on Jace, because you just cast your Spells whilst they dick about not affecting the board and dying to 5 Angels.
In dealing with slow combo players: If they spend too much time each turn doing so, call a judge. (Or just politely inform them at Regular.) If they take a 'Going off' pause two turns in a row, or fairly close to each other, call a judge. Do it whilst their doing their second turn, don't wait for them to pass back and do it again. It will prompt them more thoroughly. If you don't know how to play your deck, you should not be playing it above Regular. I have played very complex combo and combo-style decks in the past two years, and you have to learn the respect of "I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm going to just make a play and say go". Yes you will lose some games for it, but that's because you 'misplayed' by not practising. If you could just mess with people's games like that, especially against Miracles, everyone would play Doomsday and no-one would ever win a game.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Originally Posted by useL
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I know Ein has pasted a portion of his writing regarding different forms of WUR deck. To be honest, I would like a short version of it. Even with just the what-to-side-in and what-to-side-out, I am still not sure if I can consistently defeat it.
Even though Kotter has written an article with gold digger in the title way back http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html , I feel those versions merely exist conceptually, I haven't seen much real life results (I don't follow MTGO much). From my own observation, WUR decks has now evolved into mostly 2 versions: WUR Blade Control and WUR Pyro-blade. We can just assume some small percentage of people still clinging onto Delver, but there's really no point discussing that version.
WUR Blade Control, as seen in the Top 8 in SCG Invitational Seattle (Dec-2014) here http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/130918 , it's the typical Blade, TNN, and CB-T package. If I understand Ein correctly, assume we have MD 1~2 Red Blast cards already, we would like to:
-4 FoW, -2 StP, -1 Plains for
+2 Red Blasts, +1 Wear//Tear (or disenchant), +1 CJ, +1 EE, +2 Cliques
Assume I did SB correctly, from my experience, this MU is still a pain. I feel like you need 8 Red Blast effects to trade efficiently against their CB, TNN, Dig, and TC. Even if I manage to keep the board clear, they just need one Dig/TC to swing the favor back to them.
WUR Pyro-blade, as seen the Top 16 in SCG Legacy Open - Portland (Dec-2014) here http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/124479 , I call it pyro-blade because YP is the most distinct feature, along with the lack of Delver. Based on my understanding, we would like to:
-4 FoW, -1 CB, -1 JTMS for
+2 Red Blasts, +1 Wear//Tear (or disenchant), +1 CJ, +1 EE, +1 Pyroclasm
When I test this MU, I die to TNN most often. A lot of time, you're forced to use a sweeper, then they'll just follow up with a TNN. I would love to Blast a TNN on stack, but a lot of time I trade the blast against a TC.
I'm playing this sideboard:
1REB 1Pyro 1BEB 3Flusterstorm 3V.Clique 1Counterspell 1EE 1Disenchant 1Council's Judgement 2RIP
Delve Control: -4 STP -4 Terminus -2ETA +3 V.Clique +3Flusterstorm +1Counterspell +1REB +Pyroblast +1Council's Judgement
UWR Stoneblade: -4FOW -1Counterspell +1EE +1Council's Judgement +1Disenchant +1REB +1Pyroblast
Greetz
Can someone give me a link to this 'Delve control' thing? I'm not entirely certain what everyone is talking about.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Miracles without Counterbalance/Top, instead playing 5+ DTT/TC's..
pretty much that at least.. (and as consequence of that no miracles) most still toy around with winconditions.. for more see the Golddigger thread in here in the forum.
You got mail.
Cheers. I read that thread when it was first made. Can't believe people are actually playing it. It looks so bad. :(
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Only time I played against it was in a 2-man on MODO. Cuneo was testing it before GP NJ. He would resolve Dig 2-3 times in a game...and then nothing would happen. I think some people just hate counter-top with a passion and are trying to force a Dig-based control deck. Problem is, Dig is only a Divination from a card count perspective, and you won't get anywhere if that's all your deck is doing.
So analysing the actual matchup; they have more raw card advantage than us, but less explosive business Spells. The deck attempts to be more consistantly powerful, but do less broken things. Would that be a fair analysis?
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Spot on.
Do you guys leave Force in in the mirror? I've been doing:
-4 Swords, -4 Force, -4 Terminus
+2 Clique, +2 REB, +2 BEB, +2 Flusterstorm, +1 Counterspell, +1 EE, +1 Council's Judgment, +1 Wear/Tear
Maybe leave out the BEB and keep in a few Force?
Based on Ein's 21 lands list, you can easily board out a plains in the mirror.
As far as I can remember, I think he even boards out 2 plains last time I spoke to him at the austrian legacy champ finals.
You need to keep in the FOWs, thats for sure.
Maybe Gold Digger would be better when Abrupt Decay decks are good again? It is entirely a bad card, and you can Bolt all the Delvers and Deathrites they play, Swords the bug guys, and actual Counterspell everything else. They basically don't get to play Magic, whih seems like a reasonable control strategy. For now, whilst everyone is playing 1 and 2 mana deck with Treasure Cruise, with guys that don't die to Bolt, Counterbalance + Terminus seems better.
I still want to force Abrupt Decay into a Counterbalance deck, though. Seems really good.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
For the mirror I go -4terminus -4 stp -1eta +1 flusterstorm +3v clique +1 counterspell +1 reb +1 pyro +1 ee +1 council
BUG Landstill with CounterTop?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
That seems pretty tasty. Whenever they cast a Spell into your Standstill you can either Balance or Standstill first. I want to do this so bad.
EDIT: Theres also been discussion of keeping Terminus in post board in the Mirror. People are bringing cards like Tru-Name and Geist in, alongside Angels. Terminus is very difficult to counter, and answers Entreat better than any other card.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
For mirror, do you mean true mirror? Or is that just Miracles but with different build? I would leave in 1 or 2 StP, in case opponent SB-in SFM package or you are under pressure from opponent's Clique.
Yes, I meant the miracles mirror. I think its correct to board out all stp/terminus. I leave in one EtA for extra win condition (also possible to board out both,depends..). If they board in Vendilion Cliques and/or Stoneforge Mystic its okay as I still have Council's Judgement, EE and REB/Pyro to deal with V.Clique too (If you suspect SFM u can board in Disenchant aswell + V clique in resp to sfm activation can help sometimes).
Well..., wouldn't you rather spend your REB/Pyro when opponent's CB's on stack or when dealing with Jace? I would SB-in CJ, EE, and Disenchant(Wear/Tear) to get rid of opponent's resolved CB if the game ever comes to that. The fact that those cards might be able to deal with SFM package feels like bonus to me, I wouldn't lean on those cards too much. Also in SB games and sometimes game one, you have to keep in mind Clique and Snapcaster might just get blasted on stack.
Exactly, they are just insurance against possible creatures. STP should be boarded out always. The mirror is al about CB/(Jace).
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