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Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #10661

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    @twndown
    I think you need to compare Wear/Tear and Shattering Pulse. Engineered Explosives services as a catch all for things that cost 3 or less and can kill creatures.

    Have not played Shattering Pulse since the days of Type I Keeper as side board against TNT (Tools N Tubbies which was a mostly artifact creature Survival of the fitest deck. Even then Dismantling Blow was the main deck choice because it drew 2 cards if you paid the kicker and could destroy enchantments as well as artifacts.

    Shattering Pulse pro
    can buy it back for 3 more mana so is good vs decks with lots of artifacts like DnT and Mud provided you can pay 5 mana.

    shattering pulse con
    can not target enchantments like choke, counterbalance, sulfuric vortex, sylvan library,

    Wear//Tear pro
    can destroy both artifacts and enchantments
    can be a 2 for 1 if have artifact and enchantment
    combo's well with counterbalance as both a 1 and a 2 on top.

    Wear//Tear con
    Can not buy back for 3 mana.

    @Zarzab11
    Congratulations and Thank you for writting the report.

    @Poron
    Loss of Blood Moon, Pyroblast and Wear/Tear hurts in other match ups way more then anything black provides. Massacre and Dread of Night are upgrades for Pyroclasm and Izzet Staticaster only in the D+T match up. Pyroclasm and Staticaster are better in other match ups. I do not like Sulfur Elemental because it is a nombo with Mentor.

    @Varal
    Do you have mountain in your deck to fetch and do you know if the opponent runs Spell Pierce? If they do not run Spell Peirce go with the sure thing and get Explosives.

  2. #10662

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Varal View Post
    I'd an interesting situation come up, opponent on Esper Deathblade has a lethal Jitte + TNN with Wasteland. I have 2 Islands, Plains, Arid Mesa, Top, 3 life and no cantrip or lifegain in hand. End of his turn, top into Engineered Explosives, Island, Tundra. Do you fetch to find Terminus/cantrip into Terminus or do you draw EE and Island? If so, main phase or end of turn?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varal View Post
    Opponent has a few cards, know nothing about them. We have nothing that can help us survive, No lands, Have StP and Mentor. At 3 life with only 3 basics and 1 Fetch. 3 Terminus left, 0 Council's Judgment, 1 Engineered Explosives.
    In any case: your opponent has the initiative, if barely, because you haven't yet made the conditions to stabilize. Any of their threats requires an answer.

    Both EE and Terminus don't solve the problem of the threat after the True-Name. However, what you would have to give up to get either one online really depends:

    Engineered Explosives
    • 100% chance of being cast (all cards are known/held)
    • Requires losing your Top
    • Uses all of your mana


    Terminus
    • Less than 20% chance of it being cast (because of the digging and how many Terminus you've already cast)
    • You keep your top
    • Leaves mana open
    • You get to draw the EE for the next threat


    In a vacuum, I'd take the risk and go for Terminus because it leaves me with the better board after dealing with the threat. I have a Top in that scenario, whereas I have to mortgage it to cast EE. (Additionally, if I have a counterspell, I might be able to use it if they attempt to counter the Terminus--something I just can't do with EE).

    This would all have to be done immediately, as you'd want to cast the Terminus immediately. There's no magical scenario in which your opponent plays something that makes the opportunity better.

    I'd go for Terminus: Draw the EE for turn (to deal with the subsequent threat); dig with a U to see if Terminus is the 3rd card down; immediately fetch and dig if it's not.

  3. #10663
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Varal View Post
    I'd an interesting situation come up, opponent on Esper Deathblade has a lethal Jitte + TNN with Wasteland. I have 2 Islands, Plains, Arid Mesa, Top, 3 life and no cantrip or lifegain in hand. End of his turn, top into Engineered Explosives, Island, Tundra. Do you fetch to find Terminus/cantrip into Terminus or do you draw EE and Island? If so, main phase or end of turn?
    The timing here can get kind of touchy, but if you don't fetch and your opponent has an untapped Wasteland in that position and lets you draw for the turn, it's a big punt on their part. As you said, you're dead on board, so you not cracking the fetch implies that there's an answer in your top 3 (you don't have enough mana to worry about you having Predict or multiple cantrips giving you lots of extra looks, and I'd assume they have Pierce in the 75 if they're on Deathblade). Assuming your opponent screws up, I think you're forced to try for the Explosives. There's a fair chance that you can't beat Pierce in that position anyway since you only get to Top once if you don't hit a land drop while looking for Terminus.

  4. #10664

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    For the Predict-Miracle enthusiast, does any of you have ever thanked about Impulse or Peer through Depths instead ? Both dig deeper than Predict.
    Impulse is a great tool to "search" an answer.
    Peer Through Depths do barely the same, with almost 40% of the cards instants or sorceries
    Predict is a very strong card when the set-up is well done. Otherwise, it's just an ok 1for1 draw spell.

    Any thoughts about these 2 cards ? Especially Impulse.

    Impulse
    1U - Instant
    Look at the top four cards of your library.
    Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
    IT IS TWO AND A HALF MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

  5. #10665
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by kravkenov View Post
    For the Predict-Miracle enthusiast, does any of you have ever thanked about Impulse or Peer through Depths instead ? Both dig deeper than Predict.
    Impulse is a great tool to "search" an answer.
    Peer Through Depths do barely the same, with almost 40% of the cards instants or sorceries
    Predict is a very strong card when the set-up is well done. Otherwise, it's just an ok 1for1 draw spell.
    Any thoughts about these 2 cards ? Especially Impulse.
    Ponder, BS, and Top deliver more than enough C/Q. Predict is in there for C/A. In the face of the fast meta, it's quasi a replacement of Jace #3&4.

  6. #10666

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by btm10 View Post
    The timing here can get kind of touchy, but if you don't fetch and your opponent has an untapped Wasteland in that position and lets you draw for the turn, it's a big punt on their part. As you said, you're dead on board, so you not cracking the fetch implies that there's an answer in your top 3 (you don't have enough mana to worry about you having Predict or multiple cantrips giving you lots of extra looks, and I'd assume they have Pierce in the 75 if they're on Deathblade).
    So in that situation, opponent would Wasteland EOT or during the upkeep? I imagine upkeep would be better to allow fewer looks after they fetch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
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    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  7. #10667

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    So in that situation, opponent would Wasteland EOT or during the upkeep? I imagine upkeep would be better to allow fewer looks after they fetch.
    If I'm the opponent, I'd definitely want to do this during the upkeep.

    If you do it during your end step, they get to see up to 4 new cards: spin Top with the land they got, and then spin Top on their turn and see the next card down.

    Additionally, in this situation, I'd be guessing that my opponent was digging for a Council's Judgment or Terminus. (I'm not sure I'd guess my Miracles opponent has EE unless I've seen it).

    Because Terminus can be cast on my turn, it's possible that it's in their top 3. By saving the Wasteland until their turn, if they attempt to trigger Terminus at the end of my turn, I can Wasteland the fetch with the trigger on the stack to try and bait my opponent to lose their Top.

  8. #10668
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    This is probably a long shot, but has anyone done any testing with Thalia Heritic Cathar in the main or in the board?

    I've been thinking about using her as a replacement for Moon in my SB. I have been noticing a large amount of people cutting the moon completely from their boards and I was thinking of doing the same.

    While her effect seems lackluster against lands, I think she would be pretty useful in the D&T, delver and Eldrazi matchups. She can go toe to toe with a large amount of creatures and she slows down the tempo of these decks so that we can establish our ability to control the board. At three mana tho, she does seem like she won't come down early enough to hinder them.

    Has anyone done any testing with her?
    mise 'miz v alter. of might as well (1997) 1: to win when you don't deserve to 2: to top-deck the "tings" you need 3: to be rewarded by an opponent's bad luck 4: to coin a phrase that spreads through the tournament scene like wildfire 5: to fling a monkey 6: to split firewood using a sharp instrument 7: To burn

  9. #10669
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Have to be really careful putting more creatures into a deck that is inherently anti-creatures.

    We aren't really a tax deck so what little tempo we gain will be quickly recovered by the opponent.
    The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.

  10. #10670

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Did someone test blessed alliance in miracle's sideboard?

  11. #10671
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mainactivenet View Post
    Did someone test blessed alliance in miracle's sideboard?
    For what purpose? Every mode is inferior to existing cards, and paying 4 for 2 effects is just bad.

  12. #10672
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mainactivenet View Post
    Did someone test blessed alliance in miracle's sideboard?
    I have not, and probably won't. BUT, I am going to look into options that will help against the UR Bedlam Delver deck. I have had a lot of trouble with it. Blessed Alliance wouldn't be awful in the matchup I guess. And it would be good against Infect and Eldrazi, and playable midgame against non-Pyromancer aggro decks.

  13. #10673

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Celestial Purge gets rid of the whole UR Bedlam thing.

    it also hits Liliana, Deathrite Shaman and Gurmag Angler in other matchups.

  14. #10674

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by oarsman View Post
    I have not, and probably won't. BUT, I am going to look into options that will help against the UR Bedlam Delver deck. I have had a lot of trouble with it. Blessed Alliance wouldn't be awful in the matchup I guess. And it would be good against Infect and Eldrazi, and playable midgame against non-Pyromancer aggro decks.
    What about Hydroblast? I feel that trying to deal with Bedlam Reveler after it lands and after they've already drawn 3 cards is a losing proposition.

  15. #10675

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    The new breed of UR delver decks are fairly popular in Toronto and I can say I've never had a problem beating them. I find it very similar to mono red burn in the sense that both burn and UR delver punish clunky hands that require a lot of setup. Postboard I go:

    -2 Counterspell, 1 Plains, -3 jtms, -1 Council's judgment, +3 Flusterstorm, +2 wt, +2reb

    Postboard I tend to try to protect my life total with flustering random burn spells on a 1 for 1 basis unless I'm trying to get countertop in play. Reveler can definitely be annoying in certain situations but even with that card the whole deck basically folds to countertop. I'd much rather save up answers for him than worry about stuff like Exquisite Firecrafts at the end of the burn rainbow.
    "Take your time."

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  16. #10676

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    say whaaaaaaaat legacy legend bob huang played with miracles? check out the past broadcast https://www.twitch.tv/anzi104/v/91568245 where we play 5 COMBO DECKS the one time I play 3 force of wills

  17. #10677

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by hyp3r1on View Post
    The new breed of UR delver decks are fairly popular in Toronto and I can say I've never had a problem beating them.
    UR Delver is an umbrella term. Some variants choose YP/Stormchaser, while another variants might go with Eidolon instead. One should never underestimate the explosive openings of some of these variants involving red. Yes we have plenty of basic, but it is entirely possible your opening just doesn't provide the Mana Base that would make you weak against PoP.

  18. #10678
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    UR Delver is an umbrella term. Some variants choose YP/Stormchaser, while another variants might go with Eidolon instead. One should never underestimate the explosive openings of some of these variants involving red. Yes we have plenty of basic, but it is entirely possible your opening just doesn't provide the Mana Base that would make you weak against PoP.
    "new breed" = OlleR's stormchaser/Reveler decks from mtgo I would assume.

    Hyperion is also a top 8 gp competitor (and not a bitch).

  19. #10679
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Quasim0ff View Post
    "new breed" = OlleR's stormchaser/Reveler decks from mtgo I would assume.

    Hyperion is also a top 8 gp competitor (and not a bitch).
    [citation needed]

  20. #10680
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    [citation needed]
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/475054#paper

    hyp3r1on made top 8 at GP Columbus.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

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