Aight thanks. I admit that was a rather easy one.
What scenario involving Top and Pierce in your starting hand would make it really hard for you to decide which route to take (and why)?
If on the play rather than on the draw.Originally Posted by klaus
Also T1 u Sea into > Go, I'd very much be inclined to say "go", as I could otherwise walk into a plethora of nasty things happening (Entomb, Drit, Drit > AdN etc, Hymn)
i wouldnt be worried about getting dazed at all. there is no threat on board and even if they daze and use their mana for brainstorm its a bad brainstorm and tempo loss. I mean they didnt play a creature so they probably only have a goyf or confidant. So daze is irrelevant. It's most likely that you are facing a cascade deck, because there was no creature/ponder. The worst case scenario would be underground sea->daze-> entomb->reanimate griselbrand. but thats very unlikely and in this case youre almost dead anyway. Wouldnt Opp entomb in his/her turn anyway?
I would hold up pierce but at the same time i dont think playing top is bad.
I could only imagine g2 on the play against some combo deck when you have two 1cc counters like Pierce and REB/flusterstorm. If you dont play top turn one, you probably wont play it turn 2 or 3, but could be dead on turn one.
People are tired of arguing with people who don't understand how variance works and how Ponder helps defeating that... of course a lot comes down to playskill and decisions, but having acces to Ponder makes these decisions more easy. Even without a Top, Ponder helps to plan ahead and to find situationally useful cards. I question anyone not running the full set of Ponder in his or her blue deck - consistency is king, especially in such a wide open format and even more so in such a streamlined deck. You want to have acces to what you need for the moment. The card is out since nearly 8 years by now, restricted in Vintage and banned in Modern, so how can people still argue against its usefulness?...
Humphrey is always correct.
Using Ein's 75, vs. Shardless BUG...
-4 FOW
-4 CB
-2 STP
+3 VC
+1 ETA
+1 EE
+1 SV
+1 CSpell
+2 REB
+1 Pyroblast
Is there a way in sideboarding to keep the 3rd STP in postboard? DRS is the biggest problem card for me in this matchup and I think having more ways to deal with it would be nice. The notable cards that come out to me are the 3rd VC and the 3rd blast effect. Right now my intuition is saying on the play I want to the 3rd STP and on the play I want the 3rd blast. Thoughts?
EDIT: Also, somewhere on r/MTGLegacy was a post saying in the past few opens/Legacy IQs after TC was banned, Miracles is 0-9 vs Shardless BUG. Hence, why I brought this up. I also think we need to discuss our game plan vs this deck preboard and post. Any initial thoughts?
BUG is the only good deck that beats us. You kind of have to accept that. Out only real plan is to point disruption at them to keep them from killing us fast and to burn out their Force of Wills, and maybe Deeds as necessary, and make an Entreat for 4 or so, ensuring you can win quickly through an Abrupt Decay or two. Apart from that, playing fair is difficult. I would actually be tempted to sideboard Dig Through Time for this MU, but it doesn't seem quite high impact enough. If you wanted to go there, you could play 3 Force/1 Misdirection, and board a second, but I don't know what that sideboard would look like, and again, it's not really high impact enough. If you can misdirect their Decay on your Balance, you should be able to start screaming ahead on CA, until they find their second. Hopefully it'll do enough damage. As I said, it's low impact, and it does require you keeping Balances in post board.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Good point, Lossett doesn't run Ponder in his Miracles. Reid Duke's Miracles in Players Championship doesn't run Ponder as well. Are you saying they don't understand variance?
Also, it's easier, not more easy.
By SB-out CB, you're pretty much allowing CA from cascade to get better, not to mention Shardless will SB-in more silvan library. If you're that concerned about Shardless, run Keranos SB.
I doubt all the Shardless use Pernicious Deed SB, thought that's a nic-fit thing, maybe meta depending.
No, I think they would rather stick to the petdeck they created themselves. Nothing wrong with that, they are both good enough to succeed, but I think they would do even better if they played Ponder.
Humphrey is always correct.
Or they decided not to do like everyone else due to some scg article and try their own deck building skills.
On a more important note: trying out double keranos tomorrow against shardless =)
I've been playing at least 8 cantrips in any UW control deck since Carsten Kotter Caw Cartel in 2011, so no, it's not about the hype of an scg article, at least for me. In my experience with control decks (and I started playing control in 2009 so its fairly extensive and spans multiple archetypes across 6 years, from UWx Landstill, to Dreadstill, to Bug control and finally Miracles), cantrip heavy builds are clearly easier to play, more flexible and less clunky than 23-24 lands control decks.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Hello
Or they just descided that the increasement in consistency is not worth the decreasement in impact.No, I think they would rather stick to the petdeck they created themselves. Nothing wrong with that, they are both good enough to succeed, but I think they would do even better if they played Ponder.
The chance to get a no Land hand increases with each land you dropp. For a Control Deck you should never go under 22 Lands. The reason is if you draw 1 land and ponder or Storm or Top it is ok but if you draw no land all of these cards will do nothing for you.
Also you don´t want to miss more than 2 land dropps because this would generate a huge inability to answer the threats since they have more recources than you and therefore can provide more threats than you have answers.
So concidering that even with Ponder I don´t think cutting more lands is a good Idea. So if you don´t cut lands which cards you cut and here most of the guys who don´t play Ponder concider it to have less impact than the cards they play instead because they have to cut answers instead of lands for the ponder.
This can be proven by the comparisson of the Legendary List and Phils. Phils plays 4 Ponder and 21 lands (I use the list from his last article). While the Legendary list
is played with 23 lands, 3 Cliques and 1 Venser.
so the legendary build lowered the consitency by a view percent to increase the impact the deck can have on each stage of the game. The reason for this is that it is better to have the actual answer to the problem than a chance to find the answer via addtional cantrips.
So yes you are right to say Ponder is a great card but your are not right when deaming all who don´t play it inferior because they just use a other approach towards the question how to get the answers they need.
I don't play much Miracles, but I also think that it's incredibly presumptuous to suggest that someone like Reid Duke shows up to a tournament where there's serious money on the line and doesn't play what he thinks is the best 75 for him.
Do you seriously think the "perfect 75" exists?
Did I ever say that? No. A perfect 75 exists for a given event, but it's mostly impossible to figure out the exact 75...
Humphrey is always correct.
I think Reid Duke and Joe Losset play subpar versions of the deck. I think their card selections can be massively improved. Philipp and his team/friends/people have shown that to be true. Joe stopped playing Miracles and cut to Reanimator for a while because his version stopped winning, but that was simply not true for Shönneger's version. It won pre KTK, it won whilst Cruise was everywhere (and I feel we actually became even stronger in that format), and it's still winning now.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Hello,
This is simply not true. Losset picked up anothe deck because he wanted a better matchup in the treasure cruse infested meta. The thing is that the miracles UR macthup wasn´t that good but reanimator is a great deck against it so playing this to defeat the most played deck sounds like a better choice than countinue to play Miralces and losing chances.YamiJoey
I think Reid Duke and Joe Losset play subpar versions of the deck. I think their card selections can be massively improved. Philipp and his team/friends/people have shown that to be true. Joe stopped playing Miracles and cut to Reanimator for a while because his version stopped winning, but that was simply not true for Shönneger's version.
If you want a proof look at his Deck tech for Reanimator he says it there.
Also this impression comes from the fact that the Legendary Miracle players do not post their results as often as the other players. Both Version won before Treasure cruise and both will win after Cruise it is again just a other approach. Both decks are valid and both are even in strenght only difference is the difficulty because the ponder Version is easier to play than the Legendary Version. This is totally clear because the cantrips make it easier to recover from mistakes.
Hello everyone, I am considering picking miracle up recently for I want to try another kind of deck other than combo
Since I am a noob to this deck and maybe don't have time to read the whole threads, I have two questions about two specific mu.
How to beat mud and omnitel maindecking boseiju? Just because I can always see mud shows up in my local store now, so I don't want to build a deck which is a prey to mud.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
MUD is getting more and more popular and this is dangerous to Miracle.
If Null Rod starts to pop out we lose EE and Top which is a big mess.. as well as Maelstrom Pulse on Angels...
they are taking measures to Miracles these days imho..
Also, it's IMPOSSIBLE to beat OmniTell, in a game that goes long (t6 and onwards) as eventually they will find both SnT, Omni and DTT/Emrakul.
Just go beatdown and make it so that their life totals go down, asap. And, obviously, counter every single Dig they play.
This is not true... Omnitell is still a great matchup. Game one is loseable since we have 9-10 bad white cards, but game 2 our deck is 100% counters, cantrips, or intereactive threats. Boseiju + S&T + Emrakul is the only one of their 3 card combos that we cannot still counter (regardless of Boseiju) and that we can just beat with Jace, Venser, Karakas, or Council Judgment. Don't get me wrong Boseiju is good, but if they get a S&T off, and put omni or dream halls into play, you can still counter anything else they cast.
MUD is also a positive matchup. They draw hands that are complete duds a good portion of the time, and unlike every other fair deck, miracles can actually efficiently answer everything that do and cares little about their "stax" type cards. Dont worry too much about triosphere only worry about chalice if its turn 1 on the play and your hand is all 1 drops. Honeslty those cards do not do much against miracles. Jace is key in this matchup. Always be sculpting towards a game where you get to cast jace on a board with 1 or less creatures out and you will do well.
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