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Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #10681

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    A quick question against burn.

    I have a opening hand of one fetchland, top, ponder, brainstorm, FOW, Jace, Snapcaster on the play.

    I cast a the top, passes the turn. Opponent cast goblin guide. Under such circumstances, would you guys consider countering it?

  2. #10682

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mike1987 View Post
    A quick question against burn.

    I have a opening hand of one fetchland, top, ponder, brainstorm, FOW, Jace, Snapcaster on the play.

    I cast a the top, passes the turn. Opponent cast goblin guide. Under such circumstances, would you guys consider countering it?
    I would absolutely, because it will deal at least 4 damage to you, most likely more.

  3. #10683

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mike1987 View Post
    A quick question against burn.

    I have a opening hand of one fetchland, top, ponder, brainstorm, FOW, Jace, Snapcaster on the play.

    I cast a the top, passes the turn. Opponent cast goblin guide. Under such circumstances, would you guys consider countering it?
    1. Did your opponent keep 7? Did he mull?

    2. How many lands are you running?

    3. Assume you go first (cause that's how you described it), I understand that you would cast SDT against an unknown opponent, but since you cast SDT turn 1, isn't that pretty much setting you up to activate SDT on your own upkeep to look for land turn 2? If the top 3 cards of your libraries are not lands, then you have no turn 2 play since you have spent your only Mana on SDT activation. Otherwise, why not just cast turn 1 Ponder to try to ensure you'll make a land drop turn 2?

    In short, yeah, I would agree to counter opponent's turn 1 Guide, mostly because your opening would require you to cast spell(s) to find that 2nd land, as well as you have no removal.

  4. #10684
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mike1987 View Post
    A quick question against burn.

    I have a opening hand of one fetchland, top, ponder, brainstorm, FOW, Jace, Snapcaster on the play.

    I cast a the top, passes the turn. Opponent cast goblin guide. Under such circumstances, would you guys consider countering it?
    I would definitely not counter the Guide. I am confident of this hand of finding balance, and I'm fine with taking 6 or so.
    I would also definitely have pondered on turn one with that hand, even in the dark.
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  5. #10685
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/475054#paper

    hyp3r1on made top 8 at GP Columbus.
    That wasn't the statement I was disputing, but thanks.

  6. #10686
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    That wasn't the statement I was disputing, but thanks.
    Aha, ignore me then!
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  7. #10687
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    That wasn't the statement I was disputing, but thanks.
    I'm struggling with beating the new Grim flayer shardless list, people like FriendRudy plays online.

    I feel the games are non-competative. What can I do?

    *Sorry lordofthepit, didn't mean to quote you.

  8. #10688
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Quasim0ff View Post
    I'm struggling with beating the new Grim flayer shardless list, people like FriendRudy plays online.

    I feel the games are non-competative. What can I do?

    *Sorry lordofthepit, didn't mean to quote you.
    I was watching Rudys stream last night, now I get the reference

    That Shardless list is pretty strong, especially Jace in the UR Delver matchup.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  9. #10689
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    I was watching Rudys stream last night, now I get the reference
    You poor poor soul

    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    That Shardless list is pretty strong, especially Jace in the UR Delver matchup.
    Yeah man, and Grim Flayer on turn two blocks Swiftspear for dayyysss! By days, I should specify. For one day...maybe... on a good day.
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  10. #10690
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    I'm fine with taking 6 or so.
    I would also definitely have pondered on turn one with that hand, even in the dark.
    I'm of the opinion that going to 6 is more correct than keeping and Pondering (or SDT). Yes, the deck mulligans pretty poorly, but we do want our land drops and even if we play 20-21 lands, there's no guarantee that you'll see any in your top 3. I've been burned countless times keeping similar hands (1 land, 6 gas spells including a FoW and cantrip and/or SDT) and not making my second land drop until turn 3 or even turn 4. Simply cannot take that risk, especially in a deck that wants to hit every single land drop it can until like turn 5 or 6.
    The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.

  11. #10691
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mike1987 View Post
    A quick question against burn.

    I have a opening hand of one fetchland, top, ponder, brainstorm, FOW, Jace, Snapcaster on the play.

    I cast a the top, passes the turn. Opponent cast goblin guide. Under such circumstances, would you guys consider countering it?
    I probably would have mulliganed that hand. Having kept, I'd lead with Ponder looking for another land. In your scenario, I'd immediately force the guide - it is generally worth more damage than most of the cards they have.

  12. #10692

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    1. Did your opponent keep 7? Did he mull?

    2. How many lands are you running?

    3. Assume you go first (cause that's how you described it), I understand that you would cast SDT against an unknown opponent, but since you cast SDT turn 1, isn't that pretty much setting you up to activate SDT on your own upkeep to look for land turn 2? If the top 3 cards of your libraries are not lands, then you have no turn 2 play since you have spent your only Mana on SDT activation. Otherwise, why not just cast turn 1 Ponder to try to ensure you'll make a land drop turn 2?

    In short, yeah, I would agree to counter opponent's turn 1 Guide, mostly because your opening would require you to cast spell(s) to find that 2nd land, as well as you have no removal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    I would definitely not counter the Guide. I am confident of this hand of finding balance, and I'm fine with taking 6 or so.
    I would also definitely have pondered on turn one with that hand, even in the dark.
    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I probably would have mulliganed that hand. Having kept, I'd lead with Ponder looking for another land. In your scenario, I'd immediately force the guide - it is generally worth more damage than most of the cards they have.

    I am running the 20 lands version. ya i guess the correct play was to play turn 1 ponder to ensure a land at least in the top 3. My rationale for playing the top first was that i can top on my upkeep and if there is a land, i can save the usage of the ponder. My line of thought was the same as Minniehajj but obviously i failed to find a land off the top 3 and it was too late. Thanks for the tips guys.

  13. #10693
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Has there been a consensus on which is better for SB, Kozilek's Return or Pyroclasm? I've seen some people run Clasm more than Return but I don't know if that is an availability issue.

    This weekend I'm entering my first GPT of the season to get ready for GP Chiba. Looking forward to getting some practice in. I'm still tinkering with the deck at the moment but I think I want to try to play 2 Jace, 2 Entreat over the Mentors. I still also feel that main EE is where I wana be.
    mise 'miz v alter. of might as well (1997) 1: to win when you don't deserve to 2: to top-deck the "tings" you need 3: to be rewarded by an opponent's bad luck 4: to coin a phrase that spreads through the tournament scene like wildfire 5: to fling a monkey 6: to split firewood using a sharp instrument 7: To burn

  14. #10694

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I probably would have mulliganed that hand. Having kept, I'd lead with Ponder looking for another land. In your scenario, I'd immediately force the guide - it is generally worth more damage than most of the cards they have.
    I agree with both. I'm assuming that even if I warp my play around answering the Goblin Guide, I'm still going to take at least 6-8, and it's hard for me to understand why anyone would think different. Burn is the one deck where you can't easily stabilize at 4 or 5 life; I'm not trying to use my life total as a cushion like I would against a Delver.

    But maybe I'm just not playing greedy enough.

  15. #10695
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I'd have kept that hand, I think it's fine as you're seeing so many new cards with turn one Ponder into turn two Brainstorm or SDT (depends if you find a land with Ponder). I'd definitely Force of Will the Guide, given your hand needs some time to set up the damage output on it is likely higher than any other card in their deck game one with the exception of Vortex, but that's not always in the main.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  16. #10696
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    I'd have kept that hand, I think it's fine as you're seeing so many new cards with turn one Ponder into turn two Brainstorm or SDT (depends if you find a land with Ponder). I'd definitely Force of Will the Guide, given your hand needs some time to set up the damage output on it is likely higher than any other card in their deck game one with the exception of Vortex, but that's not always in the main.
    Agreed. That is a keep. That hand is great in a blind matchup, ok against a burn. It is much better than the average 6 you will get. I am shocked that there is any debate about weather you force the guide with that hand. Unless you are VERY lucky, you are not killing that goblin before it deals 4 damage (likely it will get at least 6-8 in). That force will not get any more value this game.

    If you have a 1 land hand, with ponder. ALWAYS ponder on turn 1 over casting top.

  17. #10697

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    If the hand would contain 1 swords to plowshares would you still force the guide? Considering it's trigger could help you find lands. Is the dmg worth it?

  18. #10698
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by kentheide View Post
    If the hand would contain 1 swords to plowshares would you still force the guide? Considering it's trigger could help you find lands. Is the dmg worth it?
    No, if there was a STP I wouldn't Force as you don't need to spend you cantrips finding land and an answer, just a white source which will allow the guide to only hit for two.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  19. #10699

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Why would anyone want to counter free land every turn? �� Holy card advantage! Especially when you are in need of one.

  20. #10700
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    Agreed. That is a keep. That hand is great in a blind matchup, ok against a burn. It is much better than the average 6 you will get. I am shocked that there is any debate about weather you force the guide with that hand. Unless you are VERY lucky, you are not killing that goblin before it deals 4 damage (likely it will get at least 6-8 in). That force will not get any more value this game.

    If you have a 1 land hand, with ponder. ALWAYS ponder on turn 1 over casting top.
    Keeping a 1-land 7-card, no matter how gas those 6 spells are, is really sketchy. Even with Ponder you can't guarantee you'll hit all your next land drops.

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