Moat is much better than bridge currently and I would not even recommend playing moat. Supreme verdict or pyroclasm are the next best options if 4 terminus are not enough sweepers for you.Originally Posted by theramblingfool
Mystic has been good, but really its the batterskull. Cast on turn 2-3 mystic dies most of the time. But cast turn 4+ after resolving a CB or letting the opponent shuffle away removal on brainstorms, she sticks. BUT even if she dies, the actual card batterskull is still powerful even on its own. Even if mystic wasnt even card I would probably still highly considering playing 2-3 batterskull in the SB.
With 4 ponders and the dig, finding and resolving a CB is rarely the issue. I usually can't afford to be fighting over a CB in the first few turns against UR since they will often just have you dead on board. Also against combo, usually I can make it to turn 3 without being dead I am ok. If I am going to lose to fast combo its on turn 1 or 2 before a CB comes down or does anything.I think for the moment we should really be playing 4 Counterbalance; if you're worried about weak combo MUs, it makes a huge difference, and moreover it is the lock piece vs UR and Burn, and having as many copies as possible is definitely important as we'll be seeing a lot of REB effects. I would go -1 Council's Judgement , +1 CB in your list. (Judgement is really slow in the meta and is probably just fine in the board). Never leave home without GY hate! That's when they get you ;)
Somehow I did not even think about just playing 3 volcs. I like this option better. What are you cutting for the 3rd red source? An arid mesa? Or an island or tundra?Adryan has it right, forget the mountain, just run 3 Volc. With only 2 blasts main, you aren't going to run out of sources before blasts, and like everyone has pointed out the latest Delver incarnations have dropped Wasteland + Stifle (we'll see how long this lasts!)
TNN, goose, goyf and spell pierce are seeing a lot less play so Pyroclasm is insane right now. In the UR matchup, I like it even more than terminus. The fact that its super easy to snapcaster back is also a huge plus. Previously I never left home without 1-2 Verdict in the SB, but pyroclasm has replaced that. I also like pyro over verdict against elves or D&T.Also considering a Pyroclasm in the board...
If you're referring to SB games against UR Delver and Burn, they'll very likely drop a Vortex. My issue with SFM against Red deck is the speed. You might not get the turns to get to attack with the germ token. Though it's a great choice in certain MU I admit.
This all comes down to your starting hand. If your starting hand only has non-basic like Volc and Tundra and you're playing against Wasteland decks (DnT, Lands, Jund... etc), then you are at risk of falling behind and your SB cards will be at risk as well. Is that kind of opening a calculated risk you're willing to take?
In this case having a mountain instead of the volc is way worse. You actually get screwed even more by wasteland.
I think all the criticisms listed for Bridge are completely valid. And you're right, it doesn't seem like a good include.
This is my current list:
[MD]
2 Clique
1 Venser
1 Snappy
3 JTMS
4 Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Force
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
1 Pyroblast
4 Terminus
4 STP
1 Council's Judgment
1 Entreat
10 Fetch
2 Tundra
1 Volc
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Karakas
[SB]
2 SFM
1 BSkull
1 Force
2 REB
2 Flusterstorm
1 Staticaster
1 Council's Judgment
1 Wear // Tear
2 RIP
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
I'm still trying to discern a good sideboard strategy for UR Delver. My first impression is that it would just be a worse RUG Delver against us (because no Waste or Stifle) but I underestimated just how explosive it could be. It plays out almost like a combo deck, so I've actually gotten to the point where I think I want to keep my Force of Wills in (although Spell Pierces seem bad). What I'm trying now:
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 JTMS
-2 Clique
-1 Venser
-1 Force
+2 SFM
+1 BSkull
+2 REB
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Staticaster
At first, I thought I should take out Council's Judgment, but their SB plan against us is Permanent silver bullet heavy, and I found myself wanting to have Judgment as an out to play to if we got to midgame with a Vortex/Needle/Null Rod out. Any thoughts on this plan?
You should be boarding out CJ for Wear//Tear or Disenchant if all the hate you're worried about are artifacts and enchantments. Less clunky and easier to snap back.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
I have been thinking the same thing with regards to FoW and Pierce. Your plan is basically what I would do. The only thing different I would do is also take out a jace for a verdict. Like you said verdict is pretty weak, but their best cards are rod/needle and vortex. I like having EE in the boards since it is more effective at killing creatures when it needs to. I also like pyroclasm over staticaster now (for a while I advocated the staticaster). Hitting delver and swiftspear is more important than hitting moms or having flash. Also, being blue sucks against the URx delver decks that run 3-4 REB effects.
I've also been thinking Pyroclasm is super sweet right now. Sweeping opposing X/2s is very strong right now. Beyond ruining UR's day by being a non-blue 2 mana Wrath, it cleans up Deathrites in BUG, everything in Elves, a ton of Death and Taxes guys, everything in Dredge, and Storm's Empty tokens.
Yup. Pyroclasm is almost an autoinclude for me right now, if only because of it's strength in death and taxes.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
I don't see how it's way worse.
Say you only have a Volc and no other lands and you have already mull, hence you don't want to mull again. Now your opponent Wastes you, the next card you draw is a SDT, you cannot even play that SDT. In the other case, you can at least play the SDT, spin it for couple times to get yourself out of this kind of opening.
If you have a tundra and volc like you said, getting wasted leaves with UR or UW still. If you have Tundra, mountain getting wasted leaves you with is basically a colorless land. In the early turns of the game the only time mountain is really better is when you do have top, but no other land. Otherwise a mountain wont even help you brainstorm/ponder.
Slice and Dice
Flipped Delver and Swiftspear ignore it, but it's uncounterable and draws a card.
Slice and Dice has jumped to mind in the past, but 2 is something of a magic number when it comes to killing creatures right now, which is why Pyroclasm seems better to me.
The appeal of Slice and Dice is two things; card advantage (killing stuff without going down a card), and uncounterability (we are ignoring Stifle for this exercise). The thing is, Pyroclasm actually offers more card advantage. Even though you don't draw a card, you are killing more of their cards. The uncounterability of SnD is cool, but it isn't free. You are giving up the ability to kill more than half of the cards Pyroclasm does, and you are even paying an additional mana to do it. I think those two things end up making Pyroclasm the clear winner.
Flipped delver/Swiftspear/Deathrite Shaman/Stoneforge Mystic ignores it*
Without a basic mountain I wouldn't board in red sweepers on top of Pyroblasts against Wasteland decks (non UR Delver). Maybe that's just me, though.
I've currently got Lossett's list with no changes (Legendary creatures, basic Mountain, no Ponders, no RIP Helm). I've got a gauntlet lined up for this weekend, and I'll be testing a couple Pyroclasms in the board (not sure what I'll take out yet, or just carry 17 cards with me because its purely for testing). I doubt there will be anything worth sharing, because everyone knows exactly what Clasm does; it pwns the crap out of little guys, and is useless against stuff that isn't little guys.
It's just a matter of whether playing it in the board is the right call right now. Obviously U/R has surged, and some folks are talking about DnT, but if everyone is already next leveling that with Elesh Norn or Tendrils, then boarding Clasm is the worst idea ever.
Thats how I test. I've literally got a stack of about 20 cards that I can swap into my board (another 15) to try different things out. Very important while testing.
I will say this:
DO NOT overboard for UR Delver. Yes, you need a solid strategy for the matchup, but if you put too much effort into defeating the one deck you're going to get blown out of the water by another.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
based on your... gut feeling?
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based on...getting Wastelanded out of red with red cards in hand and/or having to fetch non-basics to turn on Red Blasts.
Hey, I'm finally getting around to building Miracles and I wanted some advice: Joe Lossett's list or Reid Duke's list? I know Lossett is the master of Miracles, his Vendilion Cliques provide for an important clock, and the Venser is great against Show and Tell, but Reid's list is much more of a pure control deck, and I think it would best fit my playstyle. Any advice? I was thinking of maybe a middleground, using Reid's list (http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...easure-cruise/) but instead of the fourth Jace, mainboarding a Clique, or something.
Back when Joe only played volcanics for his red sources, he would only bring in 2 red cards vs wasteland decks. So he would have a good chance at casting both red cards if both his volcs got wasted. There's a precedent of not overboarding red cards vs wasteland decks when you are not playing basic mountain.
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