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Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #6881
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds View Post
    Under most circumstances, you beat rug by stabilizing and resolving cb+top, entreat is risky as they can sandbag stifle and blow you out while jace digs for cb/top and keeps you ahead
    Agree on this plan


    Vs Canadian my best plan so far is (Einherjer 4 ponder list):

    cutting 3 Jace, 2 Entreat and CJ and adding 3 Flusterstorm and 3 Clique

    My gameplan is all about Counterbalance then clean the board and win with a singel creature from there (sounds easyer than it is)

    In my experience Jace is an expensive card playing through Blast effects, taxing counters, wasteland and stifle on fetches, even if Entreat is a must counter i had a lot of truble with Stifle and Clique and when Counterbalance resolves with std it's game over anyway so from there its only about getting a Snapcaster or Clique into play. Could argue that we could board in blasts but i wanna stay 2 colours vs Stifle + Wasteland.

    I can also see boarding out 1-2 Force of will for 1 EE and maybe keep one Entreat/CJ, but boarding out all of them feels wrong and lets them dictate the tempo to much

  2. #6882

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    if Bug is back wouldn't Spell Snare help a lot?

    it gets everything relevant but planeswalkers.. (CB, DC, HtT, Tarmogoyf)

  3. #6883

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellistann View Post
    As a budget option, how well does the RiP/Helm version stack up?

    Moving to a new area and hopefully will be able to dust off my old legacy decks, but I'm missing Jaces and most dual lands.

    I was rocking RiP/Helm with 2x hallowed Fountains and fetches to minimize energy field getting blown up, but don't know if it's viable in today's metagame.
    Well..., if you play Miracles, you need at least 1 Jace, you can use Dig for that slot in the mean time. Rip-Helm is by no means budget. It's good in a meta that's filled with goblins, and not as many Liliana/Jace.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnziD View Post
    will be streaming again at 7:30 EST - www.twitch.tv/anzi104 - for those interested.

    EDIT: Today did not go so well. Went 2-2, winning round 1 vs miracles and round 2 to storm. Lost rounds 3 to miracles and round 4 to deathblade where I misclicked and let a true name resolve with entreat on top. I'll be back tomorrow at 2:00 EST most likely.
    You picked a horrible timing, yes you're on the earlier Legacy daily, but Joe was streaming Miracles most of this week. I mean..., you know.

  4. #6884
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Mirror boarding:
    With Einherjer's latest list.
    my normal plan
    -4 Terminus
    -4 Stp
    -1 CJ
    -2 Entreat

    +3 Flusterstorm
    +3 Blast effects
    +1 Counterspell
    +1 Engineered Explosives
    +3 Vendilion Clique

    How bad would this be?:
    -4 Terminus
    -4 Stp
    -1 CJ
    -2 Jace

    +3 Flusterstorm
    +3 Blast effects
    +1 Counterspell
    +1 Entreat
    +3 Vendilion Clique

  5. #6885
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Really bad IMO. The Mirror is all about that Jace, No Entreat. You want to force through your own CB / Top while keeping them off of theirs, and then seal the deal with Jace. Pyroblast be damned at that point.

    I'm all for taking out either one or both entreats and a plains. (Using Ein's build)
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

  6. #6886
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by exallium View Post
    Really bad IMO. The Mirror is all about that Jace, No Entreat. You want to force through your own CB / Top while keeping them off of theirs, and then seal the deal with Jace. Pyroblast be damned at that point.

    I'm all for taking out either one or both entreats and a plains. (Using Ein's build)
    Yeah my normal go to plan as well, just think that if you need CB+SDT to protect Jace and win with it, entreat will do the same job and give one more out on CB for Clique. Edit: bad point as i boardet out CJ ^^

    Im just asking here because i tested out 3 Entreat (no jace) vs a UR-standstill deck that was packed with 4 Spell Snare 3-4 blasts after board 2 Flusterstorm and 1-2 Counterspells and on top of that 3-4 Snapcaster Mage.
    lets say it was a fight resolving anything of importance.

  7. #6887
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Madsk View Post
    Yeah my normal go to plan as well, just think that if you need CB+SDT to protect Jace and win with it, entreat will do the same job and give one more out on CB for Clique.

    Im just asking here because i tested out 3 Entreat (no jace) vs a UR-standstill deck that was packed with 4 Spell Snare 3-4 blasts after board 2 Flusterstorm and 1-2 Counterspells and on top of that 3-4 Snapcaster Mage.
    lets say it was a fight resolving anything of importance.
    With Ein's list, clique isn't much of an issue. You've got 3 snapcasters and 3 blast effects, as well as council's judgment. I think I'd rather be able to slowly grind my opponent out of the game instead of trying to resolve a large entreat. The mirror has a lot to do with card advantage, and trying to both manage your opponent and keep entreat around until you can cast it gets very hectic, especially if you take out Jaces.

    UR Standstill is a different beast altogether, and yes, I think Entreat is much better in this matchup than it is in Miracles. Jace is very bad against man-lands, while Angels will usually just kill them outright. I think switching up plans is fine against it, because, again, it's an entirely different beast.

    Cards I'm interested in vs landstill include Council's Judgment, Blast effects, Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, and Engineered Explosives.
    Cards I'm disinterested in vs landstill include Terminus, Jace, and Dig. Probably not all copies of Jace and Dig though. With so many counterspells flying around, Dig will be relatively easy to cast, and can singlehandedly get you back into a game. Jace also lets you try to gain back some of the card advantage that is stolen by standstill.
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

  8. #6888
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by exallium View Post

    UR Standstill is a different beast altogether, and yes, I think Entreat is much better in this matchup than it is in Miracles. Jace is very bad against man-lands, while Angels will usually just kill them outright. I think switching up plans is fine against it, because, again, it's an entirely different beast.

    Cards I'm interested in vs landstill include Council's Judgment, Blast effects, Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, and Engineered Explosives.
    Cards I'm disinterested in vs landstill include Terminus, Jace, and Dig. Probably not all copies of Jace and Dig though. With so many counterspells flying around, Dig will be relatively easy to cast, and can singlehandedly get you back into a game. Jace also lets you try to gain back some of the card advantage that is stolen by standstill.
    UR-standstill feelt impossible. I guess only chance is resolving CB, but they have good controll on the 2CC, and as you point out jace is a joke when they have manlands. It was from this experience i thought about mirror again.

    but as you point out I will stick to boarding out all the white cards.

  9. #6889

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I was wondering if somebody could explain me the benefits and uses of Engineered Explosives? When do you bring it in and what is the go to sunburst?
    I havent played with it yet, but it looks like i would bring it in against pretty much every deck.

  10. #6890
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Madsk View Post
    UR-standstill feelt impossible. I guess only chance is resolving CB, but they have good controll on the 2CC, and as you point out jace is a joke when they have manlands. It was from this experience i thought about mirror again.

    but as you point out I will stick to boarding out all the white cards.
    UR Standstill is just a straight up bad matchup. If you know it's going to be present in your Meta, I'd recommend some dedicated hate like Blood Moon. I've definitely beaten Landstill decks before, but it's rough (And I was running blood moon at the time). If your friend is up for it, try playing around with your board slots. Flusterstorm feels like it would be fantastic in this matchup as well, to help force through your win conditions.

    What is really needed is a solid strategy, and unfortunately I don't have enough standstill experience to tell you exactly what that is. If you end up running against him a bunch more, and see a particular path working better than others, I'm sure we'd love to hear about it.

    For me, I make sure everything is prioritized. Standstill is public enemy number 1, and I counter the card whenever I can. 3 cards is a lot of cards, and they get those cards before your spell resolves, regardless of what you do on the stack. My removal is used on Manlands when I can sneak them in, but I find if you have a decent life total you can take some hits. If you want to break standstill, do it in their end step, so they need to toss some cards. Generally, I like playing Vendilion Clique in their end step, as I can then normally get some damage in before they remove it and try to put the lock on again. Postboard, EE is a great way to get rid of future standstills, but make sure you play around snare as well as artifact hate they might be bringing in.
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

  11. #6891
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by decan View Post
    I was wondering if somebody could explain me the benefits and uses of Engineered Explosives? When do you bring it in and what is the go to sunburst?
    I havent played with it yet, but it looks like i would bring it in against pretty much every deck.
    I bring EE in vs. the following:

    Chalice Decks
    Lands
    Death and Taxes
    RUG
    Miracles
    Empty the Warrens Decks
    Jund
    Merfolk
    Elves

    and others.

    The number varies from deck to deck.

    VS. chalice decks, It's generally zero as it's used to sweep up chalices.
    VS. Lands, it's either zero or one. Zero hits Chalice and Mox, while One hits Manabonds and Exploration.
    VS. Death and Taxes it depends. It's good Aether Vial removal, but it's also very good at clearing their board. Normally 1 or 2, depends on gamestate.
    VS. RUG, it's normally on 1, as it's good removal for unflipped delvers and goose.
    VS. Miracles, it's used to break up CB / Top, so I'll usually have it on 2. It sucks up snapcasters there too. Sometimes, it'll be on Zero to deal with a rouge Entreat the Angels
    VS. Empty decks it's on Zero, which hits all of their artifacts as well as their goblin tokens. There's an argument for 1 as well, to deal with random hate cards.
    VS. Jund, it's generally 2, which kills both bob and Goyf, but it's another Game state question. Do they have a null rod or pithing needle out? Do I have another way to deal with these creatures?
    VS. Merfolk, it's 2 all the way once they have a board presence, otherwise it's normally 1. 1 Kills cursecatcher and more importantly aether vial, while on 2 it hits every frigging lord in their deck.
    VS. Elves, it's 1. Hits most of their creatures as well as pithing needle.

    Generally speaking, I'll only stick it on the table if I think that my opponent won't be able to interact with it, or if I'm going to use it the same turn.

    Also, a note on Death and Taxes, if they have a Thalia in play, you can cast it X = 1 with one color, pay the extra with another color, and Sunburst is = 2. Neat way to sneak it down. They don't really have a way to deal with enchantments, so you can play around the extra cost restrictions of thalia and port fairly well. On 2 it kills Thalia and Stoneforge, as well as Spirit and other random hate, and Mom can't do anything about it.
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

  12. #6892
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Oh how I missed you legend miracles. Went 4-0 last night in the daily with double karakas, double venser, double misdirection in the 75.
    And zero ponders obviously. That's how we do it boys.

  13. #6893
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by oarsman View Post
    Oh how I missed you legend miracles. Went 4-0 last night in the daily with double karakas, double venser, double misdirection in the 75.
    And zero ponders obviously. That's how we do it boys.
    Gemstone Caverns fits in with the legendary theme, you should squeeze a few in there.

    Congrats!

  14. #6894

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Welcome back!!

  15. #6895
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Are we going to have to segregate the board into American and European players now? Don't do this to us. I can't handle it.
    Quote Originally Posted by useL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    If you pay me or give me some benefits, I might consider writing reports.
    Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
    The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjer View Post
    That's.... that's not how deckbuilding works.

  16. #6896

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by oarsman View Post
    Oh how I missed you legend miracles. Went 4-0 last night in the daily with double karakas, double venser, double misdirection in the 75.
    And zero ponders obviously. That's how we do it boys.
    Heh, I just recently put my Venser back in the sideboard. Misdirection, though? I haven't seen Hymn recently. Thought that was half the reason to jam it.

  17. #6897

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    Heh, I just recently put my Venser back in the sideboard. Misdirection, though? I haven't seen Hymn recently. Thought that was half the reason to jam it.
    Misdirect Abrupt Decay to anything BUG has, say Liliana, Goyf, Shardless Agent, sounds like a good play to me. Ancestral Vision is back, so should Misdirection.

  18. #6898

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Hey everyone, long-time reader first time poster. I saw someone on the previous page ask about the Painter matchup, which last week I played a ton of last week in tournament and during casuals. For this I'm going to assume one is playing Ein's Ponder build.

    Painter is a tough matchup, but by no means unwinnable. They can have anywhere from 6-7 Pyro/REB effects in the 75, so in my eyes blue cards in general can become a liability. They also have around 6 Blood Moon effects in the mainboard, maindeck Ensnaring Bridge for Entreat, Recruiter to grab combo pieces, and Revoker.

    Game 1 I think hitting Counterbalance as soon as possible and defending it is key to the matchup. This can be hard because of the all the Blast effects, but on the other hand once you resolve CB you can shut them down easily. Swords is very necessary to dealing with Painter's Servant, Revoker, and Jaya Ballard (usually a one-of). Council's Judgment is an MVP in this matchup due to it being white and hitting big problem cards: Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, and Grindstone. I feel that Entreat is one of the better ways to close the game out due to dodging Blasts, but it can be hard to resolve under a Blood Moon + a resolved Ensnaring Bridge. Jace meanwhile is weak to Blasts and Revoker, but not much else.

    Game 2 +3 they usually bring in Ratchet Bomb to deal with Entreat, more Blast effects, Koth as an alt wincon, Thorn of Amethyst, and some form of artifact destruction (usually Manic Vandal b/c it's tutorable with Imperial Recruiter).

    Knowing that, my sideboard plan would be roughly this:

    -4 Force of Will
    -3 Terminus
    -1 Dig Through Time
    +1 Pithing Needle
    +1 Disenchant
    +1 Engineered Explosives
    +1 Council's Judgment
    +3 Flusterstorm

    Needle hits Grindstone, Disenchant hits Grind + Bridge + Thorn, another Council's Judgment deals with it as well + Koth, Flusterstorm may be a little iffy, but I liked it a lot more than Force. Explosives is invaluable as well.

    This isn't exhaustive nor detailed, but hopefully it helps people with the matchup a bit. I'd love to hear other's input on the subject.

  19. #6899

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    Well..., if you play Miracles, you need at least 1 Jace, you can use Dig for that slot in the mean time. Rip-Helm is by no means budget. It's good in a meta that's filled with goblins, and not as many Liliana/Jace.
    I meant Budget as in I have no ability to get anything $75 or more.

    I ran something like this:

    1 Detention Sphere
    3 Rest in Peace
    4 Terminus
    1 Entreat the Angels
    1 Back to Basics
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Energy Field
    2 Helm of Obedience
    4 Force of Will
    3 Hallowed Fountain
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Polluted Delta
    6 Island
    5 Plains

    Without Jace is it better to run RIP Miracles, or something like RIP/Helm like Ryan Warner's 12 place finish:

    1 True-Name Nemesis
    4 Rest in Peace
    1 Detention Sphere
    1 Terminus
    1 Luminarch Ascension
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Counterbalance
    1 Pithing Needle
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Vedalken Shackles
    2 Windswept Heath
    1 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    5 Plains
    6 Island
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Enlightened Tutor
    3 Energy Field
    1 Humility
    1 Helm of Obedience
    4 Force of Will
    2 Tundra

    Sideboard
    1 Aegis of the Gods
    1 Detention Sphere
    3 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Greater Auramancy
    1 Porphyry Nodes
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Chalice of the Void
    1 Daze
    1 Back to Basics
    The very fact flamethrowers exist means that someone, somewhere said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire.... but I'm just not close enough to do it."

  20. #6900

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkosigan View Post
    Hey everyone, long-time reader first time poster. I saw someone on the previous page ask about the Painter matchup, which last week I played a ton of last week in tournament and during casuals. For this I'm going to assume one is playing Ein's Ponder build.

    Painter is a tough matchup, but by no means unwinnable. They can have anywhere from 6-7 Pyro/REB effects in the 75, so in my eyes blue cards in general can become a liability. They also have around 6 Blood Moon effects in the mainboard, maindeck Ensnaring Bridge for Entreat, Recruiter to grab combo pieces, and Revoker.

    Game 1 I think hitting Counterbalance as soon as possible and defending it is key to the matchup. This can be hard because of the all the Blast effects, but on the other hand once you resolve CB you can shut them down easily. Swords is very necessary to dealing with Painter's Servant, Revoker, and Jaya Ballard (usually a one-of). Council's Judgment is an MVP in this matchup due to it being white and hitting big problem cards: Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, and Grindstone. I feel that Entreat is one of the better ways to close the game out due to dodging Blasts, but it can be hard to resolve under a Blood Moon + a resolved Ensnaring Bridge. Jace meanwhile is weak to Blasts and Revoker, but not much else.

    Game 2 +3 they usually bring in Ratchet Bomb to deal with Entreat, more Blast effects, Koth as an alt wincon, Thorn of Amethyst, and some form of artifact destruction (usually Manic Vandal b/c it's tutorable with Imperial Recruiter).

    Knowing that, my sideboard plan would be roughly this:

    -4 Force of Will
    -3 Terminus
    -1 Dig Through Time
    +1 Pithing Needle
    +1 Disenchant
    +1 Engineered Explosives
    +1 Council's Judgment
    +3 Flusterstorm

    Needle hits Grindstone, Disenchant hits Grind + Bridge + Thorn, another Council's Judgment deals with it as well + Koth, Flusterstorm may be a little iffy, but I liked it a lot more than Force. Explosives is invaluable as well.

    This isn't exhaustive nor detailed, but hopefully it helps people with the matchup a bit. I'd love to hear other's input on the subject.
    OK thanks for the answer !
    Why are you boarding in Flusterstorms if that doesn't hit any of the combo pieces and why are you boarding out FoWs? IMHO we're still playing against a combo deck...

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