I really urge everyone to play the deck before making strange card choices.
1. Have you heard of recruiter chain? Why do we care about the creature? It's Not a waste of a card, the whole point IS to stop the trigger. Have you even tested the MU against Painter and Aluren?Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
2. It's not rotting in the hand. As I've mentioned before, the card is versatile enough for you to use it on something else, if necessary. Yes, CB-land can stop Vision, so is Red Blast, your point is null.
3. That's ridiculous for you to write. Lili ult is the only thing that matters coming from Lili. Stifle addresses that and more.
4. another proof of its versatility.
5. another proof of its versatility.
6. Again, why would we care about the fact that it's a creature? The fact that it's a creature is irrelevant, it's the trigger we care about.
You don't seem to understand, it's not about value, it's about stopping something we really care about. Cards like Titan and Agent means value to begin with. We only care about the trigger. The fact that the problematic card's also a dude is irrelevant to us. They can have a dude, why would we care about that? Abusing trigger to find Eye of Ugin/Vision is the real concern. Hence, "Stifling those triggers gets nothing accomplished" makes no sense to me.
I can list all the utilities regarding the versatility on and on, there're simply more upsides than the so-called dead card.
So you want to replace counterspells with tempo cards? Play RUG Delver then. The whole point of Miracle Control is to prevent those problematic cards from resolving. Cascade is the only boogeyman in the entire list you have because everything else can be countered, but a 40/60 MU isn't something to change the way an entire archetype operates over. And I know how Recruiter loop works, by the way. Counter him, or Swords him. Oh wait, you replaced your Swords with Stifles, didn't you?
If you're worried about Eye of Ugin, play Blood Moon in the main. It stops BUG decks dead (bye bye Shardless cascade) and turns off utility lands (no more Wasteland, which I'm sure you'd Stifle.)
Snip - Personal attack removed.
Last edited by Jander78; 07-08-2015 at 04:20 PM. Reason: Remove personal attack
I wasn't the one saying replacing creature removal with Stifle. Did you get it confused? I am open to new ideas, willing to experiment with less than obvious cards. There is no point in StP a creature when the trigger on the creature creates the real problem.
If you intend to write:
in situation a, card x is better than Stifle,
in situation b, card y is better than Stifle as your reasoning,
do you also intend to bring your entire collection to a tournament?
That's why versatility is a merit.
I am saying Stifle is a decent and versatile card I am willing to experiment with, I don't know what I would SB out. You're the person who's going off topic, shifting the discussion of a card to a person.
Last edited by Jander78; 07-08-2015 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Removed personal attacks from quote.
Tried lightning bolt rather than terminus sometimes, not worked.
Stifle is a card that does not belong in our decks. If you want to experiment with less-than-obvious cards, start playing the Daze list. This deck has been around since 2012, don't you think in that time people have tried Stifle?
Stifling a Cascade trigger isn't always the correct play, either. What if they would have cascaded into an Abrupt Decay when your board has no targets? Now that you've Stifled it, they can draw it and hold it for when you do play a nonland permanent.
Stifle doesn't take care of anything that we can't eventually answer, or sideboard answers for. At the expense of a card, it's not worth it for our decks.
this decks totally needs Terminus and light mana non creature spells, non blue spells.
Red blasts and Spell Pierce are in almost every deck.
That's why Entreat, Jace and Moat can't be played, imho, nowadays.
Mentor is perfect because it's creature and non blue. A simple Countertop can protect it to the end.
Mentor only fear Decay, but if they target it they don't target Cbalance it it always leaves monks after him..
Daze is dangerous, Mentor is great
Why does being non-blue matter?
I'm guessing due to REB/Pyroblast effects. Jace and Entreat still have a place in the deck in my opinion depending on the build.
It's not going to take long before people stop being cheesed by Mentor. Entreat requires waiting, but it can't be interacted with or played around.
So I'm no Miracles guy, but off the top of my head there's Clique, Teeg, Meddling Mage, Countermagic, Terminus, Echoing Truth. I'm not saying these are reasons to not play Entreat. Perhaps I don't understand your assertion that "it can't be interacted with or played around."
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Meddling Mage hits Mentor, so does Terminus, so does Echoing Truth (backed up with other removal). And there are answers to everything you mentioned, answers that Miracles decks inherently pack.
You're missing his point.
It wasn't that those 'answers' to Entreat can't be dealt with, it was more pointing out how ridiculous it is to say Entreat can't be interacted with.
Speaking of ridiculous, MM and Echoing Truth deal with Mentor?
MM naming Mentor.You're missing his point.
It wasn't that those 'answers' to Entreat can't be dealt with, it was more pointing out how ridiculous it is to say Entreat can't be interacted with.
Speaking of ridiculous, MM and Echoing Truth deal with Mentor?
Truth dealing with the tokens (hence why I said w/ backup removal).
But yea I see your point now. All cards can be interacted with in some way.
MM beats up on EtA too.
I'm pretty sure E. Truth is heaps and bounds better vs EtA than Mentor too... Like, one is gone for good, the other just requires a few cantrips to get going again.
GSZ for Gaddok Teeg.. it is played by DnT, Maverick, Elves, Sylvan Plug...
I start by saying MM is good against Entreat. Four posts later:
The circle is now complete.
Seriously though, I wonder what was Cipher's original point. Who exactly is getting cheesed? Miracles players who (according to Cipher) are misguided in thinking that Mentor is good enough to replace Entreat? Or opponents that don't like facing Mentors in Miracles decks?
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
And you've use those cantrips just to get blown out by a Swords or Decay. Chances are you also used some cantrips earlier on in the game, so how many are left to fuel your dude(s)?
The thing I don't like about Mentor is that he requires an investment of cards and mana that would be put to better use sculpting your hand (Ponder) and reacting to opponents' plays (Brainstorm). If you can get double Top going, that's great, but again that's an investment of mana that could lead to a blowout if your opponent has removal on your turn and a combo kill on theirs. With Entreat you can afford to sit back and wait. With Mentor you have to be more proactive, and while our decks can certainly play that role, we're not the best at it.
But what if I MM naming MM first?
Seriously, if you're bringing in MM in the mirror for Mentor, there's something wrong with your SB.
None of your counter-arguments for Mentor have made much sense. So, they use a Decay or STP? Surely you've not just run it out on T3 anyway. A creature has died to a removal spell, big whoop. They still need to deal with the tokens.
You're also severely underestimating how easy it is to get mentor 'going again'. You can just spin top in your upkeep for a free prowess trigger, and obviously having two should win the game on the spot which gives a very real use to redundant tops. Even playing reactively, you're still playing spells. Its not like Mentor is dictating the spells you play, but it certainly dictates what your opponent can do. If they tap out, there's a good chance they just die. It brings a whole new element to the deck.
The fact that it kills so fast is a huge deal for competitive play too.
Btw, I've not cast a single mentor in my life, still on the standard 2-Entreat 4-Ponder etc miracles. But Mentor it's certainly a card for the deck.
mentor main power is SDTop.
Eot tap, your turn you draw it and play for boost and prolification
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