Well, until the Surgical resolves you don't know what his hand is, and there's a Sneaky Show player who just tapped out to walk his namesake spell right into an uncontested Force of Will (on this theoretical line). I'd absolutely fire the Surgical at the SnT during my main phase after that, just in case he was sitting on a hand with multiple SnT. Those hands happen all the time, and the only use of SnT in that situation is as a bait spell.
If he Forces the Surgical, fine, he's down to 3 cards in hand one of which is a monster, plus the unknown card on top, but I think the correct play for his part is to let the Surgical resolve, banking on the Sneak Attack and Force of Will in his hand. Miracles plays the Karakas and passes back. Laying the Mentor in this line would turn off Brainstorm and I'd rather have mana open.
On this line you're probably still sunk if he has a Sol land, which would let him cast Sneak Attack, Force one counterspell, and activate it for a D7 that I presume would swing the game in his favor. On your side of the table, at least you've got a Brainstorm + shuffle available. If he foolishly dared to run out his Sneak Attack without being able to activate it, Wear and Snapcaster + Wear would probably settle things the other way.
This is the pile I'm about to take into battle. This week, the LGS has a special prize: a Karakas for both 1st and 2nd place! I could use another one.
20 lands: 8 fetch, 5 Island, 1 Plains, 1 Mountain, 5 duals
...the usual cards I regard as the core of the deck:
4 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 JTMS
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
...and this iteration's "package":
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Predict
1 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgment
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Sideboard:
1 Containment Priest
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Rest In Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Moat
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
1 Pithing Needle
2 Wear/Tear
1 Meddling Mage
1 Izzet Staticaster
...I expect the field to be about 50% Delver (mostly Grixis, equal parts BUG and UR for the remainder).
Yup. My mistake.Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Regarding the surgical extraction situation my first question would be why board surgical at all? I understand the situations where it is supposed to be good but in the end the requirement for it to do anything is to win the first counterwar and that's where most games vs show and tell resolve around anyway. In this particular case your opponent might have been on 3 show and tell and countering and then surgicalling the first would have been card advantage of +1 and that's more or less your best case scenario. They will also more then likely board in through the breach so they should have something of 6-7 business spells left.
In my experience cards like surgical/extirpate are a real death trap to control decks because they give the illusion of doing something great but just as likely won't do anything at all and you lose a card in the process.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.
I've been getting this feeling as well. I really want to play a Meddling Mage in that slot instead.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
That was my thought as well for that particular match-up although I prefer containment priest (flash + non-blue being key).
For dedicated gy hate I prefer rest in peace.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.
Do u play play nahiri? Does she deserve a slot?
So far I've seen exactly 0 copies of her and drawn my Emrakul twice. I think that two copies of the planeswalker are necessary for this plan to work.
Been playing the deck for a few weeks now. Took it to a 1K. Went 2-3-1 Not the best, but not the worst I guess.
I probably wouldn't have cast the Mentor in that situation. I think the safer option would be to deploy CB, keeping Karakas and Brainstorm open.
Am I being too defensive? Considering you opponent activated Griselbrand, they are very likely to have gas with backup on their following turn.
Yea that was another line I considered (and should have taken because I knew that if he wanted to Sneak he likely wouldn't have enough mana to do it twice so a Karakas bounce would have bought me a valuable turn).
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
getting dissected by manaless dredge. come watch https://www.twitch.tv/anzi104
Mini-report
I took Schonegger’s list, -1 Ponder for +1 permanent removal, hoping it would do work against Chalices. -1 Fetch for +1 Karakas. This land is just too good, for the total of 21 lands. -1 Terminus for +1 Supreme Verdict, various reasons, don’t feel like writing long explanation atm.
Round 1 Food Chain
Game 1 I surprised him with EoT lethal Entreat. Game 2 he Food Chain Emrakul combo-ed me off. Game 3 he had Emrakul in hand and Food chain in play, I Jace ultimate-ed, hence he got to cast Griffin. However, I countered every single Griffin, leaving the monster stranded (he drew it from lib). 2-1
Round 2 Shardless
Lost, not much to say other than too much CA and too many planeswalkers on my opponent’s side. 0-2
Round 3 DnT
Game 1 He did not have Vial all game and I stabilized at 3 with CB-T and Jace. Game 2 he was stuck on 2 lands no Vial. 2-0
Round 4 Predict Miracles
Game 1 was long; when he was behind due to my CB, he was never able to recover, even with Predict. Game 2 I just conceded to his CB due to time. Game 3 a timely Terminus and Flusterstorm battle was fought. He didn’t pay enough attention to Flusterstorm and I was able to finish him off. 2-1
Round 5 Lands
This guy MD Abrupt Decay and I knew that info prior, hence I dropped multiple CB in play, he tried ambush me by rushing toward 20/20 early, twice, but I managed to fish for StP just in time, won 2-0.
Round 6 Strange Miracles
Paired down, hence no ID. This guy SDT-ed very slowly and ran strange cards like the not-so-good Elspeth. Locked him out game 1 and game 3. He misunderstood how to SB in the mirror, and still lost despite he had cavern. He was aggressive with his Mentors, and then my Supreme Verdict and flashbacked Verdict just ran him over. 2-1
Quarterfinal Toolbox Lands
This version was different and was very annoying. It had Academy Ruin plus EE recursion to take out CB. It had Tolaria west into Ghost quarter to go after my Basic lands. Lost 1-2.
Overall games: 11-7
Props: I saw Eldrazi, Tezzeret, and Goblins, yet managed to dodge all of them.
Cons: I didn’t want to play in this event, just happened that my original long weekend plan blew up.
Do you think the results would have been different had you not dodged them?
AS I just said also in the Eldrazi thread, I am getting a little back to MtG after a several year break. I would very much like to try this deck. Is there some kind of composite / reference decklist I could start with ?
Is the one from http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/...-a-new-miracle still relevant / up to date ?
Thanks for the help.
Thats an ok starting point. I would try to play 4x Terminus though by maybe cutting the Entreat since you're already on 2x Mentors.
Also I would play less duals and more basics. You can get by with as little as 2x Tundra and 1x Volcanic
whats the typical sideboard strategy vs. POX?
Wear//Tear is definitely a must-have all star (soooooo many targets). I guess Flusterstorm so they can't Ritual into gas? More creatures to be the "aggro" deck seems like a solid plan, too.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
Land Top + Balance and they can't do anything. Their deck wants us to opperate on low ressources. That's generally bad against miracles.
Recently I started trying Thirst for Knowledge again. This is a sample list
21 LANDS
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Plains
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
1 Karakas
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Council's Judgement
4 Counterbalance
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Reasoning:
1. I am already MD EE, you can have multiple SDT in play, but when you need a discard target for TfK, not hard to send a Top back to top of library, or just discard EE.
2. When you are behind, you just want a DTT effect to find answer, it's ok to discard 2 since you're just looking for that single card as answer.
3. Sometimes blind Predict just cycles itself, and sometimes it just runs into opponent's CB lock. An EoT Thirst generates CA much closer to Dig than a Predict.
4. Respond to Needle or Null Rod on stack, send SDT back to library, now Thirst actually can next level this kind of Top hate plan.
The old Vintage Control Slaver player in me really wants TfK to be good in Legacy. :)
Clearly the deck is desperately looking for a Dig Through Time replacement for the grindy games or when you need an answer. As we know, the current consensus seems to be that Predict is the best candidate. Therefore any alternatives need to be benchmarked against Predict.
There are two key questions, I think:
1) Mana cost? How high can it be?
2) Is raw CA more important than selection?
Regarding 1) I think 3 mana may be pushing it.
In the two-mana slot there are a couple of other options:
Personally I have been eyeing Telling Time*. At the same mana cost it has a few upsides compared to Predict, but also a few downsides.
Upsides vs Predict:
+Better at setting up miracles as you have control three cards down (Debateable as that the card you put in hand, is not drawn!)
+Better at setting up Counterbalance triggers, as you decide the top card
+You don't need to know the top card of your library.
Downsides vs Predict:
-No true CA
-Top3 is not truly cleared
-Cannot mess with opponent's library
-Only "gets rid of" one card
I haven't played a ton of games with Predict, so it's difficult for me to evaluate how bad the downsides are, but the upsides on Telling Time seem very real.
Any insight from Predict veterans would be appreciated. Clearly the ceiling is higher for Predict, but the floor is also lower as it is somewhat conditional, and it appears a bit clunky.
******
Card Name: Telling Time
Mana Cost: 1 Blue
Converted Mana Cost: 2
Types: Instant
Card Text:
Look at the top three cards of your library. Put one of those cards into your hand, one on top of your library, and one on the bottom of your library.
******
There is also Impuse, which digs one card deeper, but overall it offers much less utility than the other two options.
Just to add to the post above, I've been playing this monstrosity online to some hilarious results (12-3):
although I would never play this in paper
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