Hey guys,
I have tinkered a lot with the Thought Lash / Laboratory Maniac combo in the past months. I tried a mono blue combo shell at the beginning, but drifted towards Miracles more and more. It has become so similiar to Miracles that I can just post the deck list here:
4 Thought Lash
3 Laboratory Maniac
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
2 Plains
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Shelldock Isle
SB:
2 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Misdirection
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wear // Tear
2 Pithing Needle
Thought Lash can't be handled by many decks and spells gg once it lands. The deck only runs 3 real win conditions, that can be found reliably post-Lash via Shelldock Isle, Ponder, Brainstorm and SDT (is turned into a digging machine by Thought Lash).
In contrast to Jace, Thought Lash can be dropped when you're far behind on the board.
Shelldock Isle does everything you want in this deck. It is a spell and land in 1 card and even puts cards on the bottom of your library that you get access to post-Lash (like an extra draw spell as protection for Maniac).
The combo isn't as susceptible to creature removal as you might think: SDT, Brainstorm and Shelldock Isle with a draw spell under it act as instant speed protection for Maniac. During online testing not being able to protect Maniac has hardly ever been a problem.
The 2 flex slots are obviously the 2 Spell Pierce, so my question is:
Have you ever missed Spell Pierce in Miracles? Do you sometimes have the feeling that you haven't got enough early interaction against fast combo decks like Storm/Reanimator/Infect or do you think that I should cut the Spell Pierces?
You can find more info on the deck in the Skilled Maniac thread in the developmental deck section.
Cheers,
Smea.gol.lum
I'm not sure you're playing Miracles anymore.
Miracles is just a better deck though so you should try and adjust your list to mirror those posted here.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
Why would you think he doesn't play Miracles anymore? He is a Sensei Top+ Conterbalance + Snapcaster Mage(to some extent) + Terminus deck. That is pretty much the definition of miracles. He's list has a whole tencards in his ENTIRE 75 that's different. You wouldn't consider the Brainstorm Shows 75 a miracles list either, I assume, due to the Preordain and 0 Jace?Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Seriously, such a comment contributes nothing. WHY would he adjust his list, if he feels like he's having success with his list? That's a very extremely elitist and demeaning thing to say. You give no reasons for a Mentor/EtA + Jace list performing better. I'm fairly certain I don't want to face him in the mirror, for instance.
With regards to Spell Pierce; I dropped mine a long time ago. For a long time, I was playing Spell Snare, but I'm on the generic hard counter approach at the moment, with 3 maindeck counterspells. I feel like spell pierce is weaker when you don't rely as heavily on Snapcaster as otherwise, with only one copy. Have you considered making on Maniac into a Snapcaster? I understand he's not a wincondition anymore, and it might make you softer to Abrupt decay as well as random hymn's hitting your Maniacs. I would, personally, want something like Impulse or predict to find your Lash. I would possibly remove the spell pierces for a 2nd Snapcaster Mage as well as one of the dig spells. I personally prefer Predict, but I could see Impulse being better, as it digs deeper for your particular list.
Also, he apperently went 7-2-1 with a list pretty close to this, at a 410 event called "MKM Frankfurt". That was good for 22, which is what, close to top 5% of the event?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-(410-players)
Your last sentence is what gets me. Are you advertising your idea in a Miracles' thread and then ask us to go to a different thread for your deck?
What is your intent really?
Are you trying to innovate Miracles the control deck? Or are you trying to start a new archetypes, which is a combo deck that happen to have some control elements in it?
I welcome new ideas in the same framework, but since you're proposing, you have to make up your mind. If you stay in this thread, then your idea will be treated like Nahiri Miracles. If you open up a separate thread, then it's a new, different combo deck that happens to have packages similar to Miracles. Please don't hijack a thread for your own motivations.
No, you are incorrect, also. Nahircles, as well as predictables, are two schools of the Top+Snapcaster+Terminus configuration, which makes the basis of miracles lists lately. This does the same. His deck is pretty clearly doing what Miracles usually does. He has a UU2 wincondition over a 2W (Mentor) or a WWWXX (WWX (Entreat)), and that's pretty much that.
Well, I think that my intent is clear. I asked you a question about Spell Pierce.
I'm not asking anybody to go to a different thread, I just wanted to provide people who watch out for innovation with further information and it seems that you are clearly not one of them.
Well, ... Miracle doesn't resume to its "xerox list". People here should be a bit more open minded.
IT IS TWO AND A HALF MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
And to answer your question about Spell Pierce, I generally find it to be a trap - its just such a bad card to draw later and we want games to go long.
Please, you wouldn't call this list "Miracles" even though it's closer to Miracles than the list gollum posted.
Stop trying to contest everything I say just because you want to argue.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
This was miracles. It top 8'd GP Kyoto 2015, and it was classified by even this very forum as Miracles.
Claudio Bonanni built his miracles deck based off of this deck's core and won GP Lille with it.
This deck is definitely Miracles.
Agreed.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Smeagol's list is a list with 4 Terminus, 4 Sensei's Top, 4 Counter balance as well as 1 Snapcaster Mage.
My miracles list is 4 Terminus, 4 Sensei's Top, 3 Counterbalance as well as 3 Snapcaster. I have 1 card more than him (2 snapcaster more, 1 counterbalance less) in what I consider be the absolut core of the deck. Two cards more, if you want to make an argument for Jace - I play one and am serously considering moving him to the board.
I don't want to argue with you. I want you to stop speaking in hyperbole, while also trying to make this thread less usefull than it is now. There's none who have success with it that post regularly, compared to the other deck threads here. I have to think it has something to do with the responses people get; "Get out of here" is hardly welcoming.
Are you seriously so arrogant that you think you have the answers to what miracles is? Miracles is not set in stone; Neither is any other deck. You dismissing everything that doesn't follow your line of thought (speaking of; What results can you post, since you have can claim you know what to call miracles?) is just disheartening. It literally makes for a dead thread.
Agreed.
I tested Lightning Helix instead of Lightning Bolt in my list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/303698#paper). I don’t feel much difference, except Helix is a bit less reliable in mana than Bolt. The 3 life gain was never relevant, except very few times. BUT I was almost always able to cast it through Chalice (Eldrazy or 4C Loam), even if I sideboard them out most of the time.
While I was looking back at my Shock (I still think Split Second is very strong), I found a playset of Turn // Burn.
I dinde yet tested it, but I feel like the card as a potential for a Lightning Bolt replacement. It acts like a soft removal in the early turns, can vanish an opponent monster for a turn (or definitely with fuse or any blocker), and can be pitched to Force.
Any of you have an opinion about this card ? (something other than "this is not Miracle anymore" ;)
IT IS TWO AND A HALF MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
It's funny that an argument about something irrelevant conjures more posts in a few hours in this thread than we normally get in an entire week.
On-topic;
GPs are coming up. How are people feeling about sideboards? Now that the past few large tournaments (atleast in Europe) has seen Eldrazi as the most played deck overall. I am imagining that the GP will see even more of that deck as it's cheap and the GP draws players that doesnt necessarily dabble too much in Legacy.
I will definetaly be going for a Moat in the board. Maybe even two if I can get my hands on a second one.
Re: markkugel: How do you feel about being 3 color pre-board? Have you found that it makes you more susceptible to getting color screwed, since I did not see a basic mountain in the link you provided.
Re: kentheide: I was running a moat in my side for eldrazi for a while but have yet to still cast the card against them, due to never seeing it when I've played the matchup. I wonder if something like Blood Moon or B2B may be more effective, due to costing 1 less.
Did you not see it because of losing too fast or just because you never found it? I already play 2x B2B in the board which is priceless, but also need to be found before you're squashed by a Reality Smasher or being removed by a Though-knot Seer.
Both. I think I was boarding in a Moon, Ruination, and Moat. Definitely need to test the matchup some more.
Anybody playing Moat, why not Humility?
I still play Enlightened Tutor Miracles, so I'm like way not-belonging in this thread, but Humility seems to cover more bases to me. I can see wanting Moat against Belcher or other Empty the Warrens decks, but I'm kinda at a loss as to where else it'd be better.
I play tutor aswell so you are not alone.
You can still die from a bunch of 1/1s and Humility turns off your own creatures. It's one mana less but still double white so I personally favour Moat.
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