Miracle Control

[Polish Tamales]

It's kinda weird, but would you guys consider 3 Flusterstorms be the norm for the deck? Either 3 in the SB or at least 2 in SB/1 in the MB?

There's a lot of games where I just constantly want to own the stack, so I'm maining at least 1 Fluster per game. Not sure about how you guys feel about this.

[Dzra]

After some testing there is something i really have to say:
Keranos is a beast. Singlehandedly owns Jund, Shardless BUG and any Delverdeck.

I'm fairly skeptical about Keranos. The deck already durdles enough where I'm not sure investing five mana in something that won't do anything until next turn (possibly) is the route we want to take. That said, it has to be really good against grindy midranged MUs like Death and Taxes or Jund. Kind of like Einherjer mentioned though, if drawn early it isn't great but it's probably better than drawing an Entreat you can't cast. If drawn in the mid-game, it's great (as is Entreat). If drawn late in the game, it either does nothing and you die or it's alright and you continue to grind (whereas a lategame Entreat probably just wins the game). So in the matchups where it's good, is it better than Entreat...? Probably not.

It's kinda weird, but would you guys consider 3 Flusterstorms be the norm for the deck? Either 3 in the SB or at least 2 in SB/1 in the MB?

I've liked Flusterstorm. If I had room, I could see running a third, but I'm not chomping at the bits to make room. I've never been a fan of Spell Pierce really. The only annoying thing is when someone casts Sneak Attack and your only counters in hand are Flusterstorm and REB.

[twndomn]

I've liked Flusterstorm. If I had room, I could see running a third, but I'm not chomping at the bits to make room. I've never been a fan of Spell Pierce really. The only annoying thing is when someone casts Sneak Attack and your only counters in hand are Flusterstorm and REB.

drum rolls~~~
Enter Swan Song

[Dzra]

I mean, I've thought about Swan Song, but I could also imagine myself dying to a Swan token since I board out all my removal against Sneak and Show or the mirror.

[ThoSha]

Dzra, the problem i had with 3 Entreats and 4 Terminus is the undeniable clunkyness when you draw bad.
I mean the keep with 1 clunk, draw 3 others in a row type of situation. Where Terminus can be set up way easier, as you are going to use it the next turn probably, it always is a problem to get rid of unnecessary Entreats, and even harder in multiples. Entreat is undeniably the key win condition along with Jace in most matchups, but only when your manabase is ripe yet.
Instead of having the 7th clunk in my deck just to increase the chance to draw it in the lategame(which will happen anyway), i would rather have something big along the way.

So why is it better than the 3rd Entreat?
Because it is fantastic in killing Planeswalkers, which seemed to be a longtime desire of the deck to begin with. People even played Punishing Fires just to get rid of nasty PWs and crippled their manabase entirely. And now we have this big fat shotgun shooting Liliana, Jace, Koth and many annoying creatures in the head for a onetime-investment. When there is no more target to shoot, it can even get to the dome and end the game this way, but thats not why he is in usually.

What will the 3rd Entreat do?
It will clog your hand more often than not, and it will lead to bad fetching-decisions for the upside of being more present in the mid-/lategame. It can ambush opposing creatures and act like a one-sided Wrath. Killing planeswalkers too? Yeah sure, but just not as reliable. I mean like you resolve 2 Angels EOT and then eat double decay because of the lack of other targets. While that seems like a waste from the opponent, he successfully prevented you from sniping his Liliana before the ultimate. I hate these situations a lot, but maybe thats just me playing bad.

But whatever, its just my opinion that Keranos is very good. All i can say is that i 4-0'd a daily today because Keranos had big impact in 2 games.
The pro players will play Razormane Masticore in this slot instead anyway.

[Adryan]

But whatever, its just my opinion that Keranos is very good.

Really nice card, like i told you :D I did stop playing Legacy online for quite some time, but now i want to feel the fun again i had when i bolted my Shardless BUG opponent at the BoM from 15 to 0.

I think everything has been already said about the card, people who think it's a replacement for the 3rd Entreat are utterly wrong. Sometimes this deck just needs a fourth PW, so Keranos is more of an Splitcard.

But we shouldn't promote him too much, let the other guys have their 3rd Entreat in the mirror (spoiler: it sucks), while wise man have a another good threat.

About Swan Song:

I never died because of the token. It's a good card.

[Poron]

it doesn't deal with TNN and MoR

[Griselpuff]

It does more or less stop mom.

[Poron]

Yes, for 5 mana...

Masticore deals with it because it's colorless, not Keranos. Overall Masticore can also be a huge wall.

The only issue is where Keranos provides (also) card advantage (the land part) Masticore can only provide card disadvantage (we have Jace to pay for it but normally it can only last a couple of turns..)

in the end it just does worse what a terminus does faster and for less card disadvantage..

[Griselpuff]

Lol, pretty sure Masticore was a huge joke.

[Basaka]

Hmm, someone at my LGS plays MUD. I'm wondering what the matchup is like for miracles against MUD, for I've heard it seems like a really rough matchup due to the large number of must-counter threats (Trinisphere, Chalice @1 etc.) and counterbalance is not a very good card against them.

Does anyone have the experience in the matchup to enlighten me?

[Poron]

I would never play Masticore, I was just suggesting it as a parallel with Keranos.

Masticore at least, provides a 5/5 first strike,regenerate body as soon as it lands on the field. Keranos is just Jace 4-5 to me since it will NEVER have a body unless you already overkilling the opponent.

[ThoSha]

Basaka, it depends pretty much on your build.
When you play 1-2 Venser and more Cliques than Snapcasters, MUD is a joke.
The other versions might struggle against Chalice for 1, as they are too dependant on 1cmc spells.
Generally your best bet to win this matchup is to ignore Chalice and counter their huge bombs 1 by 1 until you stabilize with Jace.
Postboard its easier with Explosives, Pithing Needle(Kuldotha Forgemaster), Wear/Tear or Disenchant. Counterbalance goes out, as it doesn't hit the bigger threats.

Edit: Poron, are you serious?
At this point my guess is that you are trolling and don't even play this deck.
First the suggestion of the blacksplash because you feel unable to deal with creatures in UW(r) and now you are suggesting Masticore over Keranos. lol

[mishima_kazuya]

It's kinda weird, but would you guys consider 3 Flusterstorms be the norm for the deck? Either 3 in the SB or at least 2 in SB/1 in the MB?

There's a lot of games where I just constantly want to own the stack, so I'm maining at least 1 Fluster per game. Not sure about how you guys feel about this.

Am I the only one who thinks Flusterstorm is overrated?
I feel like a combination of REB effects and Canonists is enough for combo. And I would rather just fetch correctly and have more removal against the Tempo decks.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Hey y'all. Thinking of picking up this deck as a counterpart to my BUGr Fit, but I've got one question:

How favorable are the various combo matchups, specifically Storm variants, Show and Tell Variants, Graveyard strategies, and Elves?

[twndomn]

Am I the only one who thinks Flusterstorm is overrated?
I feel like a combination of REB effects and Canonists is enough for combo. And I would rather just fetch correctly and have more removal against the Tempo decks.

and I wish real life was as easy as you put it. Blasts doesn't deal with non-blue cards, as in: reanimate, dreaded return, doomsday, Ad Nauseam, Sneak Attack... etc.

I would listen to Lossett on this one:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._8_profil.html
"What is the most underrated card in Legacy and why?
Flusterstorm"

[davelin]

and I wish real life was as easy as you put it. Blasts doesn't deal with non-blue cards, as in: reanimate, dreaded return, doomsday, Ad Nauseam, Sneak Attack... etc.

I would listen to Lossett on this one:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._8_profil.html
"What is the most underrated card in Legacy and why?
Flusterstorm"

To be fair Fluster doesn't deal w Sneak Attack either

[Poron]

Edit: Poron, are you serious?
At this point my guess is that you are trolling and don't even play this deck.
First the suggestion of the blacksplash because you feel unable to deal with creatures in UW(r) and now you are suggesting Masticore over Keranos. lol

I am just saying that Keranos is as bad as Masticore to me. Slow and usefull just turns later. Lightning Bolt should be tried in that slot imho

With the resurrection of Death'n'Taxes I still think Massacre is a great card.. the problem with Massacre is that red is just impossible to renounce in this meta (and 4 colors is impossible again)

[Basaka]

Basaka, it depends pretty much on your build.
When you play 1-2 Venser and more Cliques than Snapcasters, MUD is a joke.
The other versions might struggle against Chalice for 1, as they are too dependant on 1cmc spells.
Generally your best bet to win this matchup is to ignore Chalice and counter their huge bombs 1 by 1 until you stabilize with Jace.
Postboard its easier with Explosives, Pithing Needle(Kuldotha Forgemaster), Wear/Tear or Disenchant. Counterbalance goes out, as it doesn't hit the bigger threats.

I do play venser/cliques (1 ven / 2 clique / 2 mage). I also thought that Jace is the best card as they're more inconsistent than me and Jace can help me disrupt their draws long enough to ulti or find enough gas. I also realize if they get a nut draw I can't really do much about it, lol.

[janluis1]

Won a 6 rounder tournament today using Philipp's list with my only loss in swiss against bug delver(MD nemesis and confidant) which sided out all the decays( surely enough i boarded out all the counterbalance).

As an ex UWR Delver player i can easily say this deck looks insanely powerful. Loosing is very very hard and in some matchups you feel incredibly in a dominant position.I personally believe that even tough the deck is hard to pilot to perfection winning in most matchups doesnt require this skill as a result of the power level of our cards.