Miracle Control

[Jackehehe]

So I've been trying out lingering souls as well. I started running it as a 2-of, increasing it shortly thereafter to 3 and then finally 4. I really like the card, but I don't like shelling out the deck, going down on vindicates which I elaborated previously in this thread how much I like, as well as cutting a counterspell. One of the strenghts with this deck was its consistency.

I can certainly see the merits in lingering souls however, I am not so sold on the whole equipment idea that you hanni seem to be testing right now. It feels like this deck is taking on a different approach (not saying its for the worse) and I guess I am a bit conservative. Time will tell I guess. As a side-note, I most definatly agree with going up to 22 lands.

[jedi_gof]

I'm gonna try this manabase:

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp

Hi Hanni,
Been wanting to bring out my balances for some time, and i will be going for your list with a few personal tweaks. However I am not sure about your manabase. With so many UU spells, can you really afford that many non-island sources? I mean, 4/14 manaproducing lands is quite a lot with the spells in the deck. Do you really need 2x plains w/o wrath main? (granted, I am yet to take this deck for a swing, but foresee some issues with that manabase.)
But deck looks great
-Chris

[xfxf]

Is W really needed with the current meta and the things black can provide? There is an UB Countertop list in my meta and although I haven't seen his full list I know that he plays black for both discard and creature removal, has obvious blue counters and snapcasters for doubling on everything. White gives you swords and wrath effects but with black you already have Wrath in the form of Perish and Dread of Night since green and white creatures are all the trouble now. Going down to 2 colors you could have a more stable and resilient manabase.

Edit: Oh, for black you have damnation also. I guess the current question is if Lingering Souls is worth the white.

[sarapfish]

The W is also for the Planeswalkers that goes with Jace. If you go UB, who will pair with Jace? Liliana?

Is W really needed with the current meta and the things black can provide? There is an UB Countertop list in my meta and although I haven't seen his full list I know that he plays black for both discard and creature removal, has obvious blue counters and snapcasters for doubling on everything. White gives you swords and wrath effects but with black you already have Wrath in the form of Perish and Dread of Night since green and white creatures are all the trouble now. Going down to 2 colors you could have a more stable and resilient manabase.

Edit: Oh, for black you have damnation also. I guess the current question is if Lingering Souls is worth the white.

[xfxf]

I was thinking Liliana yes. I know it's not the best choice though. However I think that currently going 3 colors intorduces a lot of vulnerabilites for a control deck. Spangalo's BUG list is also an example of that.

[yutang]

Hanni how do you feel about cutting the two path to exiles in the maimdeck for a 4th snapcaster mage or a darkblast?

I'm going to test out my list with 22 lands, 4 souls and 2 vindicates and 2 sorins in the main which seems like a good idea.

I'm not sold on the discard in your sb and I can see the need for a board sweep like wrath, but is it really worth the slot over perish?

I really think darkblast should be somewhere in our 75.

Edit:

This is my current decklist - I can definitely see the benefits of black over red now through Lingering Souls and Darkblast.

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
1 Darkblast
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Lingering Souls
2 Vindicate
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Jace 2.0
2 Sorin 2.0

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
1 Kor Haven

Sideboard:
1 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
2 Wrath of God
2 [Open slots] - not sure what to put here, but at the moment it is Zealous Persecution.

[somethingdotdotdot]

In the lists running souls, I think a singleton intuition has some merit. Its a kill condition that almost always gives you 6-8 tokens. I've been testing it in stoneblade and its been fairly amazing. It can also grab you a vindicate/snap/snap pile in a pinch.

[yutang]

Jesus christ,

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...source=message

Temporal Mastery.

I guess that kills the Counterbalance strategy for the next few months....

[Ajsmirnov]

Jesus christ,

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...source=message

Temporal Mastery.

I guess that kills the Counterbalance strategy for the next few months....

Why? They tap mana and waste a card, untap mana and draw a card. You still can counter other spells. Looks very much like Lonely Sandbar effect against Counterbalance.

[gustha]

Plus I hear miracle costs are good with Sensei's divinig top. This is time walk for us, period. I'm really excited about this card!

BTW, here's my last tweak on the deck:


3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
4 Island
4 Brainstorm
3 Wasteland
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Counterspell
1 Path to Exile
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Wrath of God
1 Riptide Laboratory
2 Polluted Delta
3 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Marsh Flats


SB: 1 Wrath of God
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Sorin, Lord of Innstrad
SB: 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Day of Judgment

[Erdvermampfa]

It has CC7 so it tends to screw up the curve for Counterbalance. Nevertheless, I never really played a deck running Time Walk so I'm not entirely sure if the effect is worth it...

Also, you guys seem to lower the amount of CC2 spells constantly, e.g. the list above runs only 8 piece of CC2 and I got to wonder if this is really enough considering that there are so many dangerous CC2 cards in the format.

[yutang]

Why? They tap mana and waste a card, untap mana and draw a card. You still can counter other spells. Looks very much like Lonely Sandbar effect against Counterbalance.

It's too awkward to counterbalance opposing Masteries. There would be a LOT going on in the first few turns of the game and it may be too much for Counterbalance to handle.

For example, how do we deal with this deck:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage (if Personal Tutor is cut, this can be cut too)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Personal Tutor (may be iffy as you're giving up two cards for a Time Walk)
4 Daze
4 Stifle/Spell Snare
4 Jace 2.0
20 Islands/Wastelands/Fetches

Instead, it may be better to cut the Counterbalances out of the maindeck and add these into those slots. Predict may be great again.

[Jackehehe]

Hanni, how goes your testing with the more aggresive approach with jitte in SB?

[sarapfish]

Any chance for this to be a Superfriend?

[DragoFireheart]

You can cast Time Walk 2.0 on your opponents turn ala Top. This gets rid of the disadvantage of being forced to cast it on your turn when you draw it.

You can also do with this Brainstorm and 3 mana: Cast BS with TM already being on top.

Temporal mastery and Brainstorm obviously have better synergy.

[yutang]

Countertop Walker variant comes in 11th at the latest SCG Phoenix:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=45482


Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vedalken Shackles

Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage

Enchantments
4 Counterbalance

Instants
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Dismember
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
3 Lingering Souls
1 Wrath of God

Basic Lands
4 Island

Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

Legendary Lands
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Warmth
2 Disenchant
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Extirpate
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
2 Perish
1 Wrath of God

[Jackehehe]

Taking the risk of sounding like a dick here but; I honestly doubt list would be qualified as a countertop superfriendS. Any CB-list running Jace doesn't equal superfriends. I'd say its just a modern CB-list, still nice to see positive results from a, despite everything, similar list as to what we are playing.

[sarapfish]

Yeah technically correct, but since it's only one card shy of the type (just change a Jace to Sorin/Elspeth and we got a Superfriends variant), I guess it's relevant enough to be here, and I'm glad too that it did well.

Taking the risk of sounding like a dick here but; I honestly doubt list would be qualified as a countertop superfriendS. Any CB-list running Jace doesn't equal superfriends. I'd say its just a modern CB-list, still nice to see positive results from a, despite everything, similar list as to what we are playing.

[MJL]

I noticed some people were discussing my list from SCG Phoenix. Thought I'd link up my report, and explain some of my card choices.
http://www.azmagicplayers.com/articl...report-part-1/

[yutang]

Congratulations on your finish! Your article was a great read.

I already posted this in the comment section of your site:

Is there anything in your maindeck or sideboard which you would change for next time?

From your article, I'm guessing
-2 Spell Snare
+1 Spell Pierce
+1 Counterspell

-1 Karakas
+1 Glacial Fortress

Did the Diabolic Edicts/Dismember perform for you? I am wary of the lifeloss from the Dismember and a 4th Lingering Souls may be better?

In terms of the sideboard,

-1 Disenchant
-1 EE
+1 Vindicate
+1 Spell Pierce

The two Enlightened Tutors seem strange...what are they for?

Also hi5 people in law playing mtg :)

This is currently my list which I posted under yutang on the Source:

UWb

(13)
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Darkblast
4 Brainstorm

(11)
4 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
3 Snapcaster Mage

(6)
4 Lingering Souls
2 Vindicate

(4)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

(4)
4 Force of Will

(22)
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Kor Haven
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard

1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
2 Wrath of God
2 Engineered Plague

How did cutting the other planeswalker, Counterspell, Force of Will feel?