Miracle Control

[menace13]

What's the best approach to take against the UR combo decks? Mainly Omniscience.. They have way too many protection, maybe we should pack ORings/Humility for that matchup in particular? I haven't had success with either splash against that kind of deck, specially the lists packing triple overmaster MD.

You need Cliques and Discard. If you can splash black for Seize in the side and jam as many cliques. The best way to fight them I feel is through their hand. Not on stack or with perms.

Humility just stops the creatures still leaving them with Omni Storm kill.

ORing is a fine answer to Omniscience and Emrakul, but lacking against draw 7.

[Julian23]

Against Omiscience, always have a creature with an EtB-trigger ready to put into play. Thus they can't cast Griselbrand, Emrakul or Burning Wish right away and you got a window to Disenchant their Omniscience.

[mordraid]

Went to a small tournament yesterday. I went a miserable 0-3 loosing to merfolks, Burn and Hulk-therapy.

All games were pretty close, but i was always playing from behind, which is pretty hard to do all the time.

[Tammit67]

Went 3-0-2 at a 30 man local, running the 9th place GP Ghent list. Beat stoneblade, elves, Maverick, draws with stoneblade (got him down to 1 in turns), and the mirror.

Lost in top 8 to merfolk. Sometimes they have 3 mutavaults, 2 wastes, double force, double standstill. It was exactly what he needed.

Looking to help that matchup, along with goblins. Ghostly prison, kitchen finks, timely reinforcements, peacekeeper, more swords effects, or even a splash would be useful. I wish I had access to a moat.

[Guy I Don't Know]

Went 3-0-2 at a 30 man local, running the 9th place GP Ghent list. Beat stoneblade, elves, Maverick, draws with stoneblade (got him down to 1 in turns), and the mirror.

Lost in top 8 to merfolk. Sometimes they have 3 mutavaults, 2 wastes, double force, double standstill. It was exactly what he needed.

Looking to help that matchup, along with goblins. Ghostly prison, kitchen finks, timely reinforcements, peacekeeper, more swords effects, or even a splash would be useful. I wish I had access to a moat.

Against goblins try out Vendilion clique, it flash blocks and takes their ringleader. I personally like Pithing needle against goblins too. Nice to see you won a lot. Do you feel like stone blade or the mirror could have been won with more time? What would you have done differently to win those matchups.

[joemauer]

Hey guys, can y'all help me assemble a sideboard for this deck?
I am expecting Goblins, Merfolk, Burn, Maverick, Reanimator, Dredge, and perhaps the mirror & Show and Tell.
What are the most effective cards people have found for these matchups?
I am thinking Counterbalance should be in the sideboard for this kind of meta, but what do you guys think?

[Tammit67]

Against goblins try out Vendilion clique, it flash blocks and takes their ringleader. I personally like Pithing needle against goblins too. Nice to see you won a lot. Do you feel like stone blade or the mirror could have been won with more time? What would you have done differently to win those matchups.

Stoneblade is a very easy matchup. They don't go quickly and we have a better endgame then they do. A lot of the problem there was my opponent was a slower player who also brought in surgicals. There was a lot of shuffling. I should have called over a judge, but was busy with my own decisions to really notice until I saw the clock. The game was never really in his favor outside of the one game he managed to sneak in thanks to Elspeth resolving and Riptide lab + Clique taking my entreat.

I punted the mirror hard. I had a jace out with top and 2 entreat in my top three to my opponents top only. With EE in hand, his only out was an answer to Jace, so instead of forcing him to have an answer to both tokens and jace, I let him just have to find one to jace. I was waiting for a counterspell to seal the deal, but let his top dig too hard. By the time I realized I was not finishing the game for no reason, he had found a way to deal with both lines of play. Turn 5 ended with both of us having 8 or so angels in play.

EDIT:

Hey guys, can y'all help me assemble a sideboard for this deck?
I am expecting Goblins, Merfolk, Burn, Maverick, Reanimator, Dredge, and perhaps the mirror & Show and Tell.
What are the most effective cards people have found for these matchups?
I am thinking Counterbalance should be in the sideboard for this kind of meta, but what do you guys think?

CB is good against burn, reanimator, the mirror, and to some limited extent show and tell. I'd leave at least 3 main board with the fourth in SB. If you also include 2 extractions and 2 cages, you solve the GY based pretty well and help handle show and tell and useful in the mirror. Here's what I'd run as my side if I played in an event tomorrow...

SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Disenchant
2 Humility
2 Ghostly prison (would be a test for the aggro matchups)
1 Spell pierce (I run 2 more main)
1 Vendillion Clique (2 more main)
1 Counterbalance ( 3 more main)

The boarding plan would very closely resemble the one detailed here on starcity since that is where I started testing with the deck. The plan is incredibly solid. I hope this helps you as much as it did me

[joemauer]

Thanks Matt B. That article was a very good starting point. I had no idea how useful Engineered Explosives is in a two color version without Academy Ruins.

That guy's maindeck is what I was shooting for except he only has two Snapcasters and no Elspeth. Is Elspeth a win more? Should I not run a one of Elspeth?

The article addressed most of my inquiries except the two tribal, Merfolk & goblins. Moat is expensive and doesn't seem to fully solve either match up. Anybody have a good card that answers both? Is humility my best bet here?

[Tammit67]

Yeah, that's the only thing I've had trouble with. Elspeth, although really good, hasn't been necessary for me, since it really shines in the control matchups, and that list really punches people left and right in the face once it hits 5 mana. 2 Snapcaster could be up'd to three, perhaps at the cost of a counterspell. EE was pretty sweet for me, but one of the weaker cards this weekend.

I'll be trying ghostly prison first and foremost, as we really just need to slow them the heck down. Certainly helps against mutavault, I just hope it is enough. If not, looking towards the red splash for sweepers

[Razorwynd]

To anyone who has played/tested against merfolk with moat:

Is it really as powerful as it seems? Or, am I just too ambitious trying to resolve a 4cc enchantment against a deck like merfolk?

[Guy I Don't Know]

To anyone who has played/tested against merfolk with moat:

Is it really as powerful as it seems? Or, am I just too ambitious trying to resolve a 4cc enchantment against a deck like merfolk?

It is really powerful except it costs four and they play daze, spell pierce and force of will. If you land it then only corahelm commander and kira can get through. It will get countered around half the time I think. To be honest, i think the biggest thing you can do against Merfolk is add wasteland to the deck. Being able to have more answers to mutavault in non spell slots is awesome! If you do not have moat, I personally would not buy it to try out In this deck. I have a few and decided that I rather have path to exile etc. I understand that people play different versions of the deck and if your version play 0-1 Snapcastermage then you may have to play peacekeeper or moat to win the game because the amount of two for ones you have are less. In that case moat or similar effects seems needed and I would splash for red blasts effects to help win counter battle/kill all their dudes. Red blasts also are good because there is a lot of suboptimal cards versus merfolk so you having cards to bring in against them that are meant for other matchups is awesome!

Edit: Think of Moat as a six drop, because playing around pierce is a good idea.

[Tammit67]

Wasteland would be very valuable, although I cringe at all the times I really wanted counterbalance turn two, and was unable to do so while I still was running wastes. Similarly for counterspell. Having wasteland as your second land in hand is a death sentence in what feels like a lot of matchups. It can be done, but the expectations of what you can cast off two lands has to change as well. Mana leak might be good here if you decide to go this route.

[StefN]

Hello everyone. I'm playing this deck since the miracle cards has been spoiled. I almost love everything about this deck, except that it's somethimes hard, to win games fast if you have to, but so far I'm pretty satisfied.
Until now I played 6-7 Turnaments. 2x semifinal at GPT's for Gent. Played 1-2-1 at GP Gent ;). (All the results with a U/W list.)
The last weeks I changed a lot at the deck. Red splash for blasts in the SB. Explosives main and I changed a lot in the SB as well. Went to two turnaments the last weeks. 60-70 Player. Both turnaments 4-2 / 10 place. Lost in both turnaments to Goblins ;)

So here is my list.

Maindeck:

4x FoW
2x CounterSp.
3x SpellPierce
4x BrainSt.
2x Vendillion Clique
2x Snapcaster mage
3x Jace the Mindsculptor
3x Counterbalance
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Engeneered Explosives
4x Swords to Pl.
3x Terminus
2x Entreat the Angels

2x Mishra's Factory
1x Karakas
1x Celestial Collonade
1x Glacial Fortress
4x Flooded Strand
4x Misty rainforest
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic island
1x Plains
3x Island

Sideboard:

1x Hydroblast
1x Flusterstorm
1x Counterbalance
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
2x Timely Reinforcement
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Circle of Protection Red
1x Humility
1x Moat
1x Vedalken Shackles
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extractions


I'm still not sure about the Circle and Shackles. They made their job quite good so far, but not sure if other cards would be better in the SB slots.
About the Moat. As I lost twice against Goblins, it's especially against these swarming decks. Last weekend against Goblins it won me the game, and when playtesting the card it was ridiculous good ;).
Mishra's Factory. The factories are so strong at the moment. Good in the mirror, good against Planeswalker and good to defend your own. They can block Mongoose, Mutavault etc. Sometimes they also win a game here and there, but that's not the reason why I play them.
My biggest problem with this deck is, that it's a 66,6% Deck. I win 2/3 of the games and loose the rest. Is this deck really capable of winning a turnament? I'm still not sure, if the deck is not good enough, or if it's me

[supachai]

Wasteland would be very valuable, although I cringe at all the times I really wanted counterbalance turn two, and was unable to do so while I still was running wastes. Similarly for counterspell. Having wasteland as your second land in hand is a death sentence in what feels like a lot of matchups. It can be done, but the expectations of what you can cast off two lands has to change as well. Mana leak might be good here if you decide to go this route.

What problem lands are you running into? Or are you just looking for general mana denial?

Try running Dust Bowl - only takes up a single slot but come late game you can get rid of problem lands. I don't feel we should be trying to play the mana denial route - we aren't a tempo deck and games tend to draw out very long, at which point those Wastelands, Mana leaks and what not become dead cards.

[Guy I Don't Know]

My biggest problem with this deck is, that it's a 66,6% Deck. I win 2/3 of the games and loose the rest. Is this deck really capable of winning a turnament? I'm still not sure, if the deck is not good enough, or if it's me

Winning 66% of the time is great! You can definitely win a tournament with that percentage.

I was wondering how celestial colonnade has been suiting you, I see the benefits of being choke proof and late game swinging, have you been activating it frequently. Also the Timely Reionforcements in the sideboard, how has that served, what do you want that against?

[Koby]

I've also ran into problems winning a a reasonable pace. For instance, turn 24 against Goblins and turn 30 against Maverick. This can't be a realistic plan. FYI - I'm running Kobie Spaeth's list, which isn't short on a quick clock.

[rxavage]

I've also ran into problems winning a a reasonable pace. For instance, turn 24 against Goblins and turn 30 against Maverick. This can't be a realistic plan. FYI - I'm running Kobie Spaeth's list, which isn't short on a quick clock.

I've been running a similar list to Spaeth's list for a few weeks after trying out esper, I had/have the same issue and whenever I try to speed up, take risks, or be aggressive I end up losing more than I would care to.

[Tammit67]

What problem lands are you running into? Or are you just looking for general mana denial?

Try running Dust Bowl - only takes up a single slot but come late game you can get rid of problem lands. I don't feel we should be trying to play the mana denial route - we aren't a tempo deck and games tend to draw out very long, at which point those Wastelands, Mana leaks and what not become dead cards.

It is simply manlands. Utility lands have the potential to grind out an advantage that we dont have, and mutavault/factory enable the opposition to still ahve pressure post terminus. Dust bowl is too slow against folk.

I agree we should not be playing the mana denial route. I'm simply trying to address my opponents wincons, similar to how stoneblade sometimes plays wastes. While i don't plan on doing it myself, I'm suggesting those that want to run wastes would be better off with mana leak as a reliable turn 2 counterspell, since UU is harder to come by with wasteland in the deck

I haven't had too much problem with the clock except against slower opponents.

[Guy I Don't Know]

It is simply manlands. Utility lands have the potential to grind out an advantage that we dont have, and mutavault/factory enable the opposition to still ahve pressure post terminus. Dust bowl is too slow against folk.

I agree we should not be playing the mana denial route. I'm simply trying to address my opponents wincons, similar to how stoneblade sometimes plays wastes. While i don't plan on doing it myself, I'm suggesting those that want to run wastes would be better off with mana leak as a reliable turn 2 counterspell, since UU is harder to come by with wasteland in the deck

I haven't had too much problem with the clock except against slower opponents.

Wasteland is not a mana denial card in this deck. It serves it's function versus utility lands of the opponent. Against Maverick you can remove their Karakas so their teeg stays dead, as well as deal with dryad arbor(Esp if they have a jitte out). Against Merfolk you can take out their mutha vaults. Against RUG it is pretty useless. Against UW Stoneblade and UW Miracles you can take out Academy Ruins Karakas and mishras factory, maybe a riptide lab or dust bowl if they play those too. Against TES/ANT/Sneak and Show, mana denial is sometimes helpful, it can keep spell pierce live. Against Goblins it can Get rid of Cavern of souls to keep you counterspells live. Against Dredge it can remove cephalid Coliseum.

That is the main function but it also reduces variance. If you have a land heavy hand you can trade some of those lands with your opponents and stall until you draw out of it.

Playing Mana Leak is an option in some metas, and wasteland does compliment keeping it active for longer, but I personally would keep Counterspell. Past turn two Counterspell Imo is better and with 16-17 blue sources, Counterspell can definitely be supported. To give you perspective Merfolk has 12-14 blue sources and plays a plethora of two drops for UU. In some matchups they will be functionally the same except for mana cost, but against the mirror and Stoneblade, there are many situations where they have three mana to pay because these games tend to drag out long.

About having a quicker clock, a play that was not so intuitive at first was using jace on self to dig with +2 ability when I have countertop out and no hand. Trying to keep relevant targets on top, I would not want to fetch. this let me have less opportunity to find a win condition so I realized using jace's ultimate was the way to go while putting duds on the bottom of my deck.

[Teknique]

Also the Timely Reionforcements in the sideboard, how has that served, what do you want that against?

I know this wasn't directed at me but, I was playing 2 Timely Reinforcements for a while myself, but cut down to 1 for more options. The card is exceptional. Burn is a very real deck during the first few rounds of large events. And it's just plain good against any deck that clocks you with ground pounders.

@All mentioning the clock. I'll reiterate Tammit's sentiment:

I haven't had too much problem with the clock except against slower opponents.

Most important is to goldfish/playtest a lot, and learn how to stack with Top in only 2-3 seconds regardless of situation.

It's also critical that at real events you ask your opponents to play faster and call a judge if need be. This is something I need to get better at, I allow people to dick around too much because it's early on, but every minute counts.

I've personally never had a problem going to time with this deck due to myself. The only occasions I go to time are against opponents who play with Sylvan Libraries or the mirror. People playing with library typically aren't used to sifting through 3 cards a turn and tend to take much longer with their decisions, you need to make it clear that you're timing(not literally but you understand what I mean hopefully) their activations. And the mirror just sucks because sometimes no one finds business and it's neither player's fault.