Originally Posted by princeofperasia
I'm also not convinced. EtA is just better suited for the current Meta. Yes, I agree Predict is also more Mentor-synergetic.
To paraphrase, do you start with your choice of win-con, which is a combination of Mentor and Entreat (zero included), then you build your Blue Cantrip CA cartel around that (considering number of Predict, zero included)? Or, do you first decide on your Blue Cantrip shell/copies, then adjust your win-con accordingly?
It's really just fine-tuning, everyone's choices differ by like 2~3 cards. I would still start with the win-con, the number for the rest would naturally be deduced.
The point of ETA over Mentor in the heavy Predict lists has to do with blanking Abrupt Decay.
It might not hurt to even consider having a single Mentor in the sideboard if we know that Flusterstorms are going to be a largely known quantity after board. It doesnt hurt that if we do play it late we can still get value from it.
I don't think that's the only reason. If we remove Predict consideration, just look at win-con vs. MU, like so:
MU Favored Win-con Shardless BUG Entreat DnT Mentor Aluren Entreat non-Aluren, non-Shardless, BUG variants depends Show and Tell Entreat
Of course, people would disagree on my assessment, which is fine. I would prefer to start from here, not the number of Predict.
Given that this discussion is about the syngergies between Predict and EtA vs Predict and Mentor, I think you have to talk about Predict as the focal point rather than Win con.
The Predict+Mentor thing has been something we've done for a year now, but we prefer EtA as a singular stand alone win condition for the reasons outlined above. Mentor might have more outlined and overse synergy with Predict, but EtA is better on its own as a singular card. It allows you to leverage the cards you gain from Predict on leveraging your instant speed win condition rather than forcing your cards to interact with your opponent. It might seem absolutely powerful to Mentor + Predict to invalidate your opponent's cards, but is it BETTER than just ignoring your opponent and winning in one swing? Given the metagame in Legacy today, I posit that it isn't.
However, nothing is stopping you from playing both ;)
a) Meta - there's a lot of BUG. Thank Wizards for printing Leovold and thank Malimujo for getting 34 5-0's in the last Legacy season.
b) Macro - Predict is essentially an easy way to get ahead or stabilize earlier in the game. How does it accomplish this? Simple - you draw cards, the cards you draw are usually answers or a way to find answers, you answer their threats and keep answering their threats until you get to the point deep deep into the game when you're ready to turn the corner and win the game. The point to emphasize is that by playing Predict you extend the duration of the game because by drawing more answers your opponent takes longer to kill you. When games go long, I think it is unquestionable that Entreat is superior to Monastery Mentor in both its killing power and resiliency (ex. On turn 20 your BUG opp has 1 card in hand... if you're playing 4 Predict Miracles you've probably blanked the last card in their hand - Abrupt Decay).
c) Mana - Specifically if you are playing 2 Mentor (maybe 3), I think casting the card early is conflicting with what the rest of the deck is trying to do. As I've outlined above you really want to just turbo through your deck to maximize your game plan of unbeatable Jace/Entreat or CBTop. The problem with Mentor is that, while there is an upside of just randomly being able to kill your opponent (the % I value this at early is extremely low, though it does increase as turns progress), in the early games that's not your focus. (Side note - IMO if your plan is "cast Mentor and maybe your opponent dies", your plan needs some serious discipline/work. Hence why I say this is specifically for 2 Mentor (maybe 3); if you play 4, a la wilsonhunterandfriends-style, then I think its okay because you are committing all-in, balls to the walls. But that deck I wouldn't classify as a traditional Miracles deck. So back to the point -) By spending 3 mana on your turn 3 or 4 or 5, you're seriously setting yourself back because thats 3 mana you can't spend to protect yourself. And by turn 3 or 4 or 5, the three mana you expend on Mentor is a lot, relative to the amount of mana you've had up to this point. In the early game mana is our bottleneck; our curve is generally higher than other decks, but usually the power level compensates for the disadvantage in this department. To waste our mana at this stage of the game on something auxiliary seems unwise. And of course, like I mentioned earlier, if we go late, then Entreat is better.
Predict is being played with ETA because the build is built to beat midrange decks.
Also I disagree with the idea that ETA is better than Mentor vs Show and Tell. From a card to card matchup, Show and Tell has more postboard asnwers for a ETA than a Mentor. But from a strategy perspective, Miracles needs to be the aggro deck in this matchup. Unlike other combo decks, they don't get blown out when you stop the combo, our counterlock is weak, and they will eventually find a boseiju to make it all pointless. You need to be able to put a clock on them.
Jumping on the predict boat after more testing online. This card is absolutely nutso.
I have a local GPT in an Aluren/Sneak & Show/Eldrazi heavy meta, so looking for input. I'm limited in terms of duals/fetches.
* 1 Scalding Tarn
* 4 Flooded Strand
* 4 Polluted Delta
* 1 Volcanic
* 2 Tundra
* 2 Plains
* 6 Islands
* 4 Counterbalance
* 4 Ponder
* 4 Brainstorm
* 4 Sensei's Top
* 4 Swords
* 2 Entreat
* 3 Predict
* 1 JTMS
* 3 Snapcaster
* 1 Judgment
* 1 EE
* 4 Force of Will
* 1 Counterspell
* 4 Terminus
Sideboard
* 2 Mentor
* 1 Plateau
* 3 REB (Don't own Flusterstorms)
* 2 Vclique
* 2 Blood Moon (No BTB)
* 2 Surgical
* 2 Wear/Tear
Hello guys,
currently on this list : http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=509064
My local Meta has two P.Jund deck, and it's a bit tough. Any ideas to help me improving the MU ?
I think Blood Moon and BTB are sort of at odds with the plan of making Abrupt Decay a dead card post-board against BUG. Those cards are better in Mentor builds, where the plan is to overload Decays rather than try to make them useless. In your list I'd much rather run Ruination or FtA.
I also recommend 4 red blasts, especially if there's a lot of SnT in your meta. Honestly I've considered running a 5th and maybe even putting it main.
As for your manabase, it's tricky to get around not having Tarns. If you could acquire/borrow Tarns for the event it would really help. Then you could run a basic Mountain main, to go along with your Volc. I'm not sure Plateau is worth it.
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
What are peoples thoughts on Surgical vs Infect? The life you pay is negligible as you'll get it back from Invigorate.
What would we be targeting? A pump spell since we either exile or bottom their dudes most of the time? Plus, if they really don't want to lose that card they have the option of instant-speed delving away the target (which is why delve is such a busted mechanic.)
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
The only card I would feel good using it on is Inkmoth Nexus, because we have a tough time answering that card. But there will never be an Inkmoth Nexus in the graveyard to target. So I don't think Surgical is a good choice. Against everything else it's just card disadvantage.
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
It's only a valid option if you have many dead cards you would like to SB out, but have nothing relevant to SB in. Also, Surgical takes away the common Vine-in-response trick, there is a value in having complete information. Of course, tagging an invigorate or nexus would be huge (after you disenchant or wear//tear the first one).
It's worthy to experiment on, in a casual settings, I wouldn't do it in an actual tournament setting.
As to the Infect MU, I've actually resolved From the Ashes before, the infect opponent just flat out concede after I've resolved it. They've never see it coming.
Anybody here play BUG decks? If you saw chains of Predicts game 1, how many Abrupt Decays would you bring in?
To me it seems that the best card to bring in as a BUG deck vs Predict Miracles is Flusterstorm. I know many here dont bring in From the Ashes or Ruination vs BUG but it might be worth considering if we want to dwindle their Flusterstorm supply so that we can resolve a EtA.
I play BUG decks a lot. Couple of things to note:
1. If I know I'm up against Predict Miracles and don't see any Mentors, I would not bring in any extra Abrupt Decay, in fact I would consider siding out main deck abrupt decays. It's sort of this weird thing where you have to guess whether or not the Miracles player is removing their counterbalances or not. If I'm on BUG Delver I'll assume that CB's stay in, if I'm on Shardless I'll assume they come out.
2. Many BUG decks don't even play Flusterstorm at all, and it's not a particularly attractive option against Miracles anyway. The card is too narrow and doesn't do enough against the Miracles game plan to warrant inclusion post-board, unless you really have a lot of bad cards to replace. It doesn't hit one of the most important cards in the matchup (Jace) and is only really good at maybe stopping an Entreat, or winning a counter war over Pyroblast.
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
Thank you very much for your input. I basically copy-pasted that sideboard from my mentor build (3 mentor, 2 predict, as opposed to 3 predict+2 entreat). I do own 2 from the ashes, so I will try it out.
As for flusterstorm, should it be a high priority pickup or should I finish out the fetches first? I played the above list to a 4-4 finish @ GP Shizuoka's legacy side event + won an 8 man w/ a borrowed flusterstorm, and the card was just absurd.
Definitely focus on flushing out your manabase first. Flusterstorms are good but not nearly as important as having good mana. Good news is you should be able to get Tarns for a decent price with the reprint. And then 1 more Volc and I think you're good. 3rd Tundra can wait.
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
The Miracles articles just keep on coming...
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com...rt-3-the-hate/
Sib
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