I like 4 Plow/4 Counterspell, I don't like MD Blood Moon. I can see trimming Portents to 2-3, but cutting it seems worse than not cutting it.Originally Posted by twndomn
consider red blast here to interact with opposing jaces.
Same thing he had weeks ago, ya rabblerouser.
20 lands and only 8 can trips is that enough to hit lands drop T1-4 and find answers? back then it was top and 21 lands and 8 can trips. wonder how he can keep hitting land drops I find my self always using atleast a few just looking for that 3-4th land drop all the time with 12 can trips package
Inspired by OSMANOZGUNEY 12th place here:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...nge-2017-06-05
Also want to explore something other than Predict + UA, now experiment with Accumulated Knowledge:
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster
2 Vendilion Clique (maybe I'll move to SB)
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace
1 Entreat
1 From the Ashes (he MD Blood Moon)
4 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
21 lands
By cutting UA, the WW is only for Verdict and Entreat, it's a lot more manageable imho. Without UA, there's less incentive to run Predict, gonna experiment with AK for now.
I believe Das has mentioned something similar before: it's very, very hard to cast a good Entreat with 20 lands, hence move to 21.
You know what? why the heck not try AK at this point!
Some comments in-line:
2 Monastery Mentor ------------- now that CB can no longer protect her, I'd go with 3 or another EtA
3 Snapcaster ------------------ What's your reasoning against 4? Sadly "flashbacking" AKs is less sexy than Predicts.
2 Vendilion Clique (maybe I'll move to SB) --------- I support that.
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace
1 Entreat
1 From the Ashes (he MD Blood Moon) ------ That's SB material at best imo.
4 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict ----------- I like the 1 SV 3 Terminus split.
3 Terminus
21 lands
-----------
This is what a draft employing my suggestions could look like:
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace
1 Entreat
2 Portent <----- Helps replacing Top, but most of all finds that 2nd and 3rd AK.
4 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
21 lands
---
Now that I think about it, there are probably still too many DRSs running rampant to make AK a all around strong strategy
20 lands with 4 Ponder and 4 Portent make total sense, and I don't understand how you could have trouble hitting land drops with 8 t1 cantrips. What I really don't understand about the UWr lists is that they seem to cut Portent, add a color, and keep on 20 lands. It seems way, way too greedy. There is no way any version of Miracles, splash or no splash, can run just x Ponder+4 Brainstorm on 20 lands and expect to have a good time. I'm obviously wrong as some of those lists have placed, but I would not feel comfortable playing them, and I think over a larger event the higher % of variance will pop up.
Brainstorm is obviously not a 1cc cantrip, so I really don't count it as a one-drop. Without Portent you limit yourself to x4 Ponder as your t1 play, where the math says to run 8-9 one-drops to have that tasty t1 play. Maybe less of a Miracles discussion, and more of a mana-curve discussion.
the thing bro is that you don't want cantrip into lands but cantrip into answer, since now we can't select cards as before with top during the long game!
Accumulated Knowledge over Predict seems wrong.
Firstly, UA is here because he has a sweet interaction with predict but mainly because it can interact with any threat. It is good on its own right now.
Predict will draw two / dig three when you target yourself, or disrupt one / draw two on your opponent.
AK will firstly draw 1, then start to draw 2 and it's only at the third one that you will get more value.
The thing is, it is not only awful with Snap, it is very awful against Deathrite.
This looks like a bad call.
Agree with the guys above, cutting Portent sounds really bad, especially when just the 20 lands. The card has been amazing for me.
AK also doesn't help with the decks plan at all, Predict is just so much better in the shell.
I've been thinking about a MD Gideon of the Trials. Against fair decks it's a maze of ith (which is great with sweepers) and possibly a win con. It can buy some time versus storm/other combo decks.
Sadly it won't do much against Emrakul's Annihilator Trigger, but against ANT game 1 dropping Gideon of the Trials and getting that emblem should win the game.
Against any BG deck, though, Gideon of the Trials merely gives them a target for all the Abrupt Decays that until then were rotting uselessly in their hand.
Hi Everyone, that was me that top 4'd using miracles at our GP side event. I'll try to write a report once I find my notes as I can't recall all my matchups and how I boarded. This was my first tournament with the new look miracles and it performed better than expected.
I liked portent more than I thought I would. It's not top but it's virtually Ponder 5 to 8 that setup Terminus and predict which is IMO what keeps this deck running. I cut a few post board when cutting Terminus, all in all, I was impressed. I'm fine with cantripping into lands early since I'll be milling lands later on in the game with predict. This deck actually tends to flood out midgame once you've used all the cantrips so I'm fine with playing 20 lands.
My meta is full of combo so I went with MD clique instead of mentors. I don't really like the idea of spending cards to protect mentor game 1 so I prefer him off the board where the removal is expected to lessen. Meddling mage was there because I expected a lot of p fire, loam, reanimator, eldrazi and burn to show up. It was weaker than canonist against elves which is fine because its not common in my meta and it has game vs storm combo as well which I expected to be well represented.
This was a rough list I brewed the night before (was supposed to run Czech pile). I'll post a report once I found my notes. Feel free to discuss. Thanks!
Why so serious?
Nice one! Would be very interested in reading a report when you get time
You summed up exactly how I felt about the deck and Portent at the beginning.
I am playing bum_man's list except I run 2x Volc instead of the Karakas and a board with Moons and Canonists instead of Meddling Mages. I'm not sure about Wear/Tear: we have 2 maindeck ways of dealing with a resolved Chalice and I don't feel like Wear/Tear will stop Sneak Attack. It feels like it is a viable list moving forward, although there are still awful matchups like Burn that I'm not sure we can stop.
Miracles got 13th in the 298-player Hareruya Legacy Challenge over the weekend.
// Land (20)
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
3 Tundra
// Creature (3)
3 Snapcaster Mage
// Instant (22)
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Predict
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Unexpectedly Absent
// Sorcery (12)
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
3 Portent
4 Terminus
// Planeswalker (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 2 Stoneforge Mystic
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Back to Basics
SB: 1 Batterskull
More importantly, that 9th place list is insanity...
// 60 Maindeck
// 2 Artifact
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
// 13 Creature
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
// 18 Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
// 24 Land
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Karakas
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Tundra
// 3 Sorcery
3 Ponder
// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Snapcaster Mage
// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
// 4 Instant
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 1 Stubborn Denial
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
// 2 Planeswalker
SB: 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 4 Sorcery
SB: 3 Terminus
SB: 1 Entreat the Angels
I totally understand the counter-argument, it's an experiment, could totally fail.You know what? why the heck not try AK at this point!
Now that I think about it, there are probably still too many DRSs running rampant to make AK a all around strong strategy
Remember at one point in time, people say that there're too many Abrupt Decays in the format, Counterbalance is therefore "bad." Yes, AK is horrible against DRS decks, what if you run into decks that're Not DRS, like DnT or Storm.
I feel UA is such a trap. UA + Predict + Portent package is very attractive, but there're So Many Wasteland + Stifle decks. Every single Grixis deck runs 3~4 Stifle and Wastelands. In order to support UA and the 3~4 Counterspells, you need UU and WW. I'm very tempted to get Tundra, knowing I should not do this, I need to get Basic lands for a particular MU, but getting Tundra and cast UA would enable all these "cool" plays.
At the end of the day,
Ideally, UA + Predict + Portent package wants pure UW and Basics to not lose to Wasteland + Stifle.
I want to play WUR and I don't want to support WW cards. Since I have ditched UA, Predict becomes less profitable. Therefore, just run 4 StP for consistency and run AK as replacement.
Are you sure your disdain for Predict isn't based on the fact that you're cutting Portents? It's definitely sustainable to play low to 0 number of UA and STILL play Predict.
Playing Counterbalance and rejecting it in-game play was made possible because of the presence of a highly powerful library manipulation suite (mostly SDT).
In game when drawing a Counterbalance vs the Abrupt Decay decks was to just Predict it away, pitch to FoW or utilize library manipulation to hopefully never see it.
Now the thing with Counterbalance's inclusion was that it was powerful and said library manipulation actually made it's inclusion into a freeroll in the case of MUs where CB is bad and effectively an A+B combo vs everywhere else.
The risk of playing AK is that vs every deck it is indiscriminately either a playset of AKs or a playset of mediocre Think Twices, neither of which seem fantastic. AK is by no means a bad card but you still have options that are amazing.
You anxiety over the inclusion of UA is understandable as well as basic color requirements for the deck vs Wasteland decks, but it should again be said that the answer to these anxieties is to just play Portent. If your fear is playing nine fetchlands dovetailing the 12 cmc cantrip suite, there is a reference of decks that utilized this cantrip suite that used six fetchlands in the past. You can still build this around 6 fetchlands and still have it be functional.I feel UA is such a trap. UA + Predict + Portent package is very attractive, but there're So Many Wasteland + Stifle decks. Every single Grixis deck runs 3~4 Stifle and Wastelands. In order to support UA and the 3~4 Counterspells, you need UU and WW. I'm very tempted to get Tundra, knowing I should not do this, I need to get Basic lands for a particular MU, but getting Tundra and cast UA would enable all these "cool" plays.
At the end of the day,
Ideally, UA + Predict + Portent package wants pure UW and Basics to not lose to Wasteland + Stifle.
I want to play WUR and I don't want to support WW cards. Since I have ditched UA, Predict becomes less profitable. Therefore, just run 4 StP for consistency and run AK as replacement.
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