Page 637 of 645 FirstFirst ... 137537587627633634635636637638639640641 ... LastLast
Results 12,721 to 12,740 of 12895

Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #12721
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2014
    Location

    New Jersey
    Posts

    205

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by It Is Unfair View Post
    That card does seem powerful, but it is also very far away, so we can probably discuss it during the proper spoiler season if it is true.

    I decided to try Monastery Mentor maindeck during the Legacy Challenge yesterday insead of my usual 1:of entreat, since there have been so much talk about that lately.
    Very nice finish. And with straight UW. Any things you'd like to share?

  2. #12722
    Draw-Go Disciple
    Nestalim's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2017
    Location

    Clermont-Ferrand
    Posts

    87

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by icedagger View Post
    If he says Go to resolution, and you say okay, that's sounds like he missed his Reality Smasher trigger. It's your opponent's responsibility to remember his own triggers, not yours. He basically proposed a shortcut to where your STP resolved without demonstrating awareness of the trigger. So if a judge was called you'd be asked if you want to put his Smasher trigger on stack. You may refuse.

    Edit: Also if it it seems he was voluntarily "missing" the trigger and is aware that doing so is illegal, that can be grounds for getting disqualified.

    All that being said, I may be missing something that may have caused the judges to rule differently in your case.
    That ruling is false. It is true that it is Reality Smasherís controllerís responsibility to clearly demonstrate awareness of his trigger. But when he does so, the opponent still has a chance to discard a card.

    The point is, does it intentionnaly trying to create a situation of misleading information ? If yes, it is a DQ, that is why I'm surprised the HJ didn't investigate.

  3. #12723

    Re: Miracle Control

    If you had 1 burn pilot and 1-2 UR delver pilots in your local metagame of 25 players, would you slot this in your board?

    http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/oketraslastmercy.jpg

  4. #12724
    Foreign Black Border
    Lord_Mcdonalds's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2012
    Location

    Houston, Texas
    Posts

    745

    Re: Miracle Control

    Probably not, there are other options that applicable in more MUs
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I still have a strong suspicion that if 'Thalia, Heretic Cathar' had been named 'Frank, Heretic Cathar', people would be a lot more skeptical of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goin Aggro View Post
    Ugh, there he goes again, talking about the girlfriend. We get it dude.

  5. #12725

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    That ruling is false. It is true that it is Reality Smasherís controllerís responsibility to clearly demonstrate awareness of his trigger. But when he does so, the opponent still has a chance to discard a card.

    The point is, does it intentionnaly trying to create a situation of misleading information ? If yes, it is a DQ, that is why I'm surprised the HJ didn't investigate.
    The point is that the Eldrazi player missed his trigger and only "remembered" it too late; Therefore the Miracles player does not even need to discard a card.

    The rules say you have until the trigger would affect the game to demonstrate awareness. In this case, that would be before the StP is allowed to resolve. Now, based on the tournament report the Eldrazi player was himself proposing to resolve StP, and the Miracles player accepted (Let's go to resolution. Okay.). If the Eldrazi made no attempt to inform his opponent of the trigger before making this proposal, and the Miracles player agrees to the shortcut, then the trigger is clearly missed. You can't advance to resolving STP if it got countered by the trigger, so that's a clear sign that the Eldrazi player either forgot about it, or was intentionally not mentioning it.

    If a judge is called after the shortcut is offered and accepted, I would have guessed they would have gone with one of the following rulings if it happened exactly as described:

    1. Since the Eldrazi player proposed a shortcut and the Miracles player accepted, hold the Eldrazi player to his proposed shortcut. Game advances to STP resolution as proposed by the Eldrazi player. Trigger is missed, and it is too late to put it back on stack and have it do anything. STP resolves without requiring a discard. No infraction for either player.

    2. Interrupt the shortcut right before StP resolves. Trigger is missed, but protocol dictates that the judge ask the Miracles player if he would like to have the Smasher trigger put on stack. The Miracles player may either agree or refuse. If Miracles player refuses to have the trigger put on stack, then he does not need to discard to have StP resolved. No infraction for either player.

    3. Judges may end up investigating further to try and determine if the Eldrazi player knew about the Reality Smasher trigger and was voluntarily not mentioning it. If he was intentionally "missing" the trigger and also aware that doing so is against the rules, then he should be DQed. You are never allowed to intentionally miss your own triggers, for any reason whatsoever.

    However, as I said, I may be missing something the judges at the event were privy to. It's likely that they investigated and ruled the way they did based on what they turned up. Meanwhile, the only info I have is the tournament report.
    Last edited by icedagger; 06-19-2017 at 04:04 PM.

  6. #12726
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2017
    Location

    Baltimore MD
    Posts

    26

    Re: Miracle Control

    Recently cashed in stoneblade cards online and bought into a complete UW topless miracles. I started out with 3 snaps, 3 Jace and 1 Entreat main win con. SB I had two Gideon of the Trials. I came to found I really liked having both Gideon and Jace together. Now I'm working with main deck 3 Snaps, 3 Jace, 2 Gideon 1 Entreat. I've played 16 matches so far and only lost 4 of them.

    Gideon has been very impressive. Having a control deck and winning with zero life is absurdly powerful. It can definitely take some time to pull off a win.

    My problems I've been having is I've been cutting like a Portent and A predict to fit this package. Tonight was the first time I've been able to do some recent research on the deck for over a week. Noticed a lot of players cutting down too 2-3 Terminus and or down to 1 UA instead of the two I intitially seen. Should I keep the 4, 4, 4, 4 BS ponder, Portent predict? And drop down the terminus UA numbers?


    Side note. My buddy and I wanted to try and abuse the fact that in paper magic if we could win game one. We could attempt to never really finish game two with Gideon on board. Apparently it's a match win if you win first game and never finish game 2. Wonders how the community felt about that? Or if that's pretty common with a deck like this?

    Also makes it hard online to practice this way because of timers. Other question is does Gideon emblem supersede the MTGO players timer?

  7. #12727

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchyman View Post
    ...
    Regarding the part about winning game 1 and then running out the timer in game 2... Well that's kind of frowned upon as an underhanded tactic (depending on who you ask) and it goes against the spirit of the rules. It should also be noted that one of the official reasons why SDT was banned was it was causing a lot of games to go to time and thus causing a lot of logistics issues.

  8. #12728
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,369

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchyman View Post
    Other question is does Gideon emblem supersede the MTGO players timer?
    Nope. If the timer runs down you still lose.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  9. #12729
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2017
    Location

    Baltimore MD
    Posts

    26

    Re: Miracle Control

    LMAO lots of Rage Quits lately on game one. Vs Storm then Goblins. Guess there is no need to stall g2 if you just drop him m game one.

    Vs storm BS turn one to hide FoW. Instead found a second and a Gideon. Hid them correctly and I beat two discards landed turn 3 Gideon. He AD Nausem to 1. Disconnects before crack back.

    Goblins

    Kept 1 lander(tundra) with cantrips/swords FoW 2x Gideons. Turn one force vial. I only have one land takes two Brainstormto find what I need mean time first BS stacked a terminus. Wipes him. Drop first Gideon for emblem. Followed by 2 swords than another gideion into Jace with stacked Terminus into Entreat. Was thing of beauty.

  10. #12730
    Draw-Go Disciple
    Nestalim's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2017
    Location

    Clermont-Ferrand
    Posts

    87

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Nope. If the timer runs down you still lose.
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  11. #12731
    Bear Cub > Tarmogoyf

    Join Date

    Jul 2007
    Posts

    774

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchyman View Post
    Other question is does Gideon emblem supersede the MTGO players timer?
    Relevant rulings:

    4/18/2017: If Gideon leaves the battlefield after giving you his emblem, youíll keep the emblem. Its effect will apply again later if another Gideon comes under your control.
    4/18/2017: No game effect can cause you to lose the game or cause any opponent to win the game while Gideonís emblem is in effect. It doesnít matter whether you have 0 or less life, youíre forced to draw a card while your library is empty, you have ten or more poison counters, youíre at your Glorious End, your opponent casts a second Approach of the Second Sun, or so on. You keep playing.
    4/18/2017: Other circumstances can still cause you to lose the game. You will lose a game if you concede, if youíre penalized with a Game Loss or a Match Loss during a sanctioned tournament due to a DCI rules infraction, or if your Magic Onlineģ game clock runs out of time.
    4/18/2017: If you have Gideonís emblem in a Two-Headed Giant game and control a Gideon planeswalker, your team canít lose the game and the opposing team canít win the game. If your teammate controls a Gideon planeswalker but you do not, your emblemís effect doesnít apply.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  12. #12732

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by It Is Unfair View Post
    I decided to try Monastery Mentor maindeck during the Legacy Challenge yesterday insead of my usual 1:of entreat, since there have been so much talk about that lately.
    And how did you like it? :)

  13. #12733
    Predictor of Miracles
    Minniehajj's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2015
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    458

    Re: Miracle Control

    So GP Vegas is now over, and we've made some good strides on putting the deck on the map, but I feel as if we have a long way to go still. I've spoken to many of the attendees of the GP and a few outstanding ideas came about:

    The deck could use less "air" and more win conditions than previous iterations have had. 3 Mentor at the least in the main deck seem notable since it allows the deck to be punishing against opponents. We lost countertop and have no real way to punish people in the early turns of the, and mentor is a really good way of alleviating that problem.

    Any other ideas on how to keep the innovation flowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost ó For Support Rather Than Illumination

  14. #12734
    Member

    Join Date

    Apr 2015
    Location

    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts

    60

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    So GP Vegas is now over, and we've made some good strides on putting the deck on the map, but I feel as if we have a long way to go still. I've spoken to many of the attendees of the GP and a few outstanding ideas came about:

    The deck could use less "air" and more win conditions than previous iterations have had. 3 Mentor at the least in the main deck seem notable since it allows the deck to be punishing against opponents. We lost countertop and have no real way to punish people in the early turns of the, and mentor is a really good way of alleviating that problem.

    Any other ideas on how to keep the innovation flowing?
    Hey Minn, I wasn't able to attend GPV, but I've been feeling like Unexpectedly Absent is not actually necessary. Going forward I'm going to be moving back to some combination of EE and/or CJ. I feel like there's a reason we weren't playing UA in Miracles before, and those reasons are still valid now. UA can sometimes feel like another price of 'air' to enable to Predict, rather than a real answer. With all the cantrips I've not had much trouble getting Predict to work. How have you been enjoying UA?

  15. #12735
    Predictor of Miracles
    Minniehajj's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2015
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    458

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by prepare4robots View Post
    Hey Minn, I wasn't able to attend GPV, but I've been feeling like Unexpectedly Absent is not actually necessary. Going forward I'm going to be moving back to some combination of EE and/or CJ. I feel like there's a reason we weren't playing UA in Miracles before, and those reasons are still valid now. UA can sometimes feel like another price of 'air' to enable to Predict, rather than a real answer. With all the cantrips I've not had much trouble getting Predict to work. How have you been enjoying UA?
    I've also been personally doubting the necessity of UA personally and will likely be cutting it from my future lists in favor of more permanent answers. I think the whole schtick with Predict enablers needing a critical mass isn't necessarily that leaning on something like UA. The main appeal of UA has usually been the fact that it's instant speed, so we can run the gamut of putting the "squeeze" on our opponents by holding up Predict or Counterspell or UA or Plow or Snapcaster, etc, which appeals to many "draw-go" souls that exist. Predict theoretically just fine without UA, but it's hard to say anything beyond that since it's based on feeling rather than data, as I haven't actually had a chance to collect data with it.

    On that count, I've also juggled the idea of cutting the Portents and turning them into Preordains or Gitaxian Probes, alongside Mentor. The reason for this is that if we're moving away from the concept of a "contraption" with all of these little synergies powering our deck into "playable status", what happens if we move away from the completely and play better raw cards? Is Predict sustainable without the contraption elements? Osmanosguney's original list had no Portents at all, and I still don't think he plays with them, so something like this MIGHT be feasible. Just ideas, ofc.
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost ó For Support Rather Than Illumination

  16. #12736
    Member

    Join Date

    Apr 2015
    Location

    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts

    60

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    I've also been personally doubting the necessity of UA personally and will likely be cutting it from my future lists in favor of more permanent answers. I think the whole schtick with Predict enablers needing a critical mass isn't necessarily that leaning on something like UA. The main appeal of UA has usually been the fact that it's instant speed, so we can run the gamut of putting the "squeeze" on our opponents by holding up Predict or Counterspell or UA or Plow or Snapcaster, etc, which appeals to many "draw-go" souls that exist. Predict theoretically just fine without UA, but it's hard to say anything beyond that since it's based on feeling rather than data, as I haven't actually had a chance to collect data with it.

    On that count, I've also juggled the idea of cutting the Portents and turning them into Preordains or Gitaxian Probes, alongside Mentor. The reason for this is that if we're moving away from the concept of a "contraption" with all of these little synergies powering our deck into "playable status", what happens if we move away from the completely and play better raw cards? Is Predict sustainable without the contraption elements? Osmanosguney's original list had no Portents at all, and I still don't think he plays with them, so something like this MIGHT be feasible. Just ideas, ofc.
    Agree with this, although the more 'mainstream' reason for choosing UA over other answers was the interaction with Predict, in the end my FEELING is that it's not necessary. I like the idea of testing Preordain. I'm still not sold on the merit of Gitaxian Probe in a control deck without Cabal Therapy; despite the interaction with Monastary Mentor.

    I'm optimistic that StP, Terminus, and Monastary Mentor / Entreat (i.e., Tundra) are OP and have yet to find the right shell in Legacy post ban. We just need to keep pushing the envelope. Thanks for being at the centre of this Minn!

  17. #12737
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts

    1,658

    Re: Miracle Control

    I don't think the full 4 Portent are needed to make Predict work. I actually ran a 2-of Predict in Czech Pile before the Top ban and was pretty happy with it with just 4 Ponder, 4 Brainstorm. I think you might want 1-2 Portent just to make Predict more reliable, but having Predict solves the biggest challenge of running Pyromancer and Mentor, which is consistently having extra spells to make tokens immediately after playing them.

    That being said, I'm somewhat suspicious of trying to use the Miracles shell for Mentor rather than being a more dedicated Mentor combo/control deck, especially once you start talking about running Gitaxian Probe (which is all but begging you to run Therapy alongside it). Both Esper and Jeskai have attractive things to off Mentor (it pairs very well with burn), but both also pull you away from a Miracles-style control shell once you start focusing on getting the most out of Mentor rather than on pulling into the late game and using Mentor as 'merely' a win condition.

  18. #12738

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Did someone tried baby jaces in a more "midrange build"? I have spent a week thinking of something on the lines of a esper mentor with 2-3 termini and jvp seems good with therapy while luring removals for mentor. Therapy is great for our combo matchup. I tried some list but I'm a bit shy to post something so different without giving it an appropriate test.

  19. #12739
    Member

    Join Date

    Apr 2015
    Location

    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts

    60

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Drzed View Post
    Did someone tried baby jaces in a more "midrange build"? I have spent a week thinking of something on the lines of a esper mentor with 2-3 termini and jvp seems good with therapy while luring removals for mentor. Therapy is great for our combo matchup. I tried some list but I'm a bit shy to post something so different without giving it an appropriate test.

    Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk
    There's an Esper Mentor thread, which sounds like the right place for a list like that. Sorry, not trying to be dismissive, but also trying to stay true to the focus of this thread.

  20. #12740

    Re: Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by prepare4robots View Post
    There's an Esper Mentor thread, which sounds like the right place for a list like that. Sorry, not trying to be dismissive, but also trying to stay true to the focus of this thread.
    Well people are talking about adding gitaxian probe so I don't think that my post is too offtopic to not warrant some thoughts.. jvp has always been pretty good in other shells and while we are discussing a completely new iteration of miracles I don't think it's wrong to talk about all the possibile inclusions. I'd like to point out that it is possibile that the old full draw-go style of miracles is not so good anymore (just talking) and that is not out of the world that some big changes are needed to the deck. And if I remind correctly there was some local finish with an esper miracles build at the end of the sensei diving top lifespan that played cabal and jvp.

    Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 12 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 12 guests)