Congrats on the fabulous performance Cadei!Originally Posted by Wiky
Wondering what is the value of bringing flusterstorms to the main deck besides having a better combo matchup in the first game. Is it a metagame call?
It shores up a lot of weaknesses in game ones that we have, amplifies the power of Snapcaster mage by a lot, while also allowing us more room in the sideboard to address a lot of other stuff.
I won a local tournament this weekend quite similar list. The deck feels great and the amout of cards you see each game is tremendous, so you can really grind your opp out or dig for answears to get you out of serious trouble (e.g. I've won both final games vs elves staying on 1 life).
@Wiky thank You for Your contribution, as well as thanks to all other people who post their results and thoughts. I've been a long time lurker and an occasional poster.
My thoughts:
- Im not leaving home without 4 Terminus.
- Portent is savage, especially played against opponent's deck. Portent into terminus happens more than a lot.
- I'm not sure how we should sb against grixis delver, without basic mountain in sb, I did sth like: -2 FoW, -3 Jace, -1 Absent +2 Flusterstorm +2 Blood Moon +1 Pyroblast +1 Hydroblast, but I'm not sure I hate Forces in this matchup.
Thank you for this! Very helpful -- though I know I'll need to get some more matches in before I can really internalize this.
Angelo's list is the closest thing to something I could actually stomach playing at a bigger event after the ban.
Don't bring in Blood moon against red delver decks. It comes down too late in the game to cut them of casting threats and it usually is going to hurt us more than it hurts them. I would take out Jace and Force, for blasts, flusters, sweepers and if I still need to bring in more then also cliques. Personally, after I test topless miracles more, I might still play the SB mountain. I really liked having it there in wasteland matchups where I want blast.
Any love for Ancestral Knowledge? Scry 10 at 1U seems nice. Not replacing itself sucks, but you can potentially make up the CA next turn with an immediate stacked Predict.
Would love to see you write again and I look forward to seeing more results as well! Thanks for sharing. It's good to see players well and sharing their lists/ideas because that's what keeps me going. I've been trying to get my feet back into Miracles after a year's break and it has been difficult. I've been losing through and through and I can only tell myself that I'm not good enough and work on my plays etc.
I've been looking at most Topless Miracles lists and they all seem to be splashing red for Pyroblast/REB, Blood Moon and maybe Staticaster. Is that the sole reason to splash red? Is it the only viable splash color? MD is UW in all lists I've seen, so it's clearly a SB splash. I've even seen some lists not splash at all.
Is there a case to splash black for Thoughtseize/Therapy, Push/Deluge and other black hatecards like E Plague, Dread of Night, etc. ? Are red's Moon and Blasts so powerful that no other color is good to be splashing? Wondering because I can't make it UWr but I could play straight UW or UWb.
Sorry for the spam if it is "obvious" that Red is the only way to splash, I genuinely want to know.
"Ach! Hans, run! It's the Lhurgoat!"
I think the best way to go about doing this is to evaluate the cards that you'd want to splash black for!
Life points are one of our resources so Thoughtseize generally isn't worthy to splash for. Furthermore, as much as discards are strong, we've got countermagic and removals to deal with threats. (I hope this answers your question with regards to discard spells).
As for Fatal Push, we already have the superior removal in Swords, and the same goes for Deluge/Plague/Dread where we're already equipped with Terminus and occasionally Supreme Verdict. Furthermore, Deluge taxes our life (an important resource).
Adding on to all that, spells such as Deluge require us to function at sorcery speed, which is something we don't want to be doing most of the time, as these are times where we are most vulnerable (thus the decline in Entreat in most lists nowadays). We want to leave up mana for instant speed shenanigans such as countermagic, Snapcaster Mages, removals etc.
Pyroblast is strong against a meta with a lot of blue decks. Not only does it serve as a counterspell, it is also a removal against blue permanents. As for Blood Moon, it can be so strong against some of the archetypes that it becomes a win condition for us.
These are some of my thoughts, hope it helped! :)
That's not true. Engineered Plague and Dread of Night and other Black enchantment hate say that your opponents cannot win until they answer these enchantments. That's not the same as spells. As in, you are forcing elves to have GSZ into Rekt Sage as answer. Leyline of the Void is also the fastest graveyard hate, even if your opponent has chancellor of annex and/or unmask.
I won't disagree that EP and Dread are better, I guess 'superior' was not the right word to describe what we have in Terminus.
Ultimately, what I am trying to put across would be that having Terminus means that we're able to deal with eg. Elves or DnT sufficiently and that EP or Dread would not be required.
As for Leyline, we'd need 3-4 in the SB don't we? What's more non-black splashes have been running 2-3 SEs as options that can be utilised in more situations.
Could you give us a few pointers on how to beat Lands with your list? To me it seems especially game 1 is nigh unwinnable without a maindeck Blood Moon.
Also, have you ever considered going up to three Counterspells maindeck? They are in my experience the most universal answer the deck has, albeit a bit slow sadly.
I just counter stuff and play mentor or jace , it is hard to die by his combo if you keep right the fetch. Absent is very good against depths ,post board just side disenchant w/t and surgical ,don't keep all the terminus we have already 6 spot removal as answer to the combo.
if the deck doesn't start with exploration it doesn't so much against us.
I played 3 counterspell at the beginning of the test, but three are sometimes cluncky and I want the deck perform at his best.If you look at my decklist the mana curve is less high than other miracle list.
Uh..., I wouldn't generalize too much vs. Lands. If I remember correctly, Lands defeated old Miracles at GP SeaTac in the Top 8 within 5 minutes. Lands can sometimes have very, very explosive openings, not necessarily involving Exploration, but has turn 1 Diamond. If Miracles runs 20 lands and was unable to keep up, played the incorrect fetch and/or basic, it's entirely possible to get blind-sided by a Crop Rotation or a strange sequence involving Gamble. Absent is good, but the requirement of WW can be challenging at times. Sometimes Lands player wants you to get that WW source so he can ghost quarter.
IMHO, again no numeric evidence provided, Lands players today seem to move away from Boseiju, Boil, Choke, but more focused on Chalice, Sphere, and some Decay, as they dedicate most of SB toward combo hate. There're a lot of hide-and-seek sub-games/bluffs in this MU and there's this passive-aggressive undercurrent coming from Lands player. A sizable Entreat mid-game is a lot assuring than Mentor + tokens.
Why are you cherry-picking a single example from an event two years ago? There were a lot of other questionable plays from that match that you don't ever seem to discuss either.
Just found some pretty hard MUs: monored stompy, eldrazi, aluren.
I cant beat aluren. If I dont die to the combo I just die to the creatures.
Whats is your generel sideboard plan aganinst aluren?
Thinking of building an Esper version with Probe, Strix, and Cabal Therapy. Mostly just because I have the appropriate fetches and cards for that build. Has anyone tested that plan at all? Worth a shot?
Monored Stompy hasnt been too bad for me. Try and delay Chalice for 1 and keep the board empty of creature threats so that you can hold onto the board a JTMS. From there it should be fine. Also they're pretty threat light. If you can remove the Chalice casting Portent on them when they're in topdeck mode should buy you 2 turns on average.
Same experience here, I've played against Red Stompy quite often during my leagues, and it really comes down to one simple question: do i have an answer for Chalice? If yes, then we can win pretty easily with Mentor/JTMS. If not, than i'm probably going to die from Chandra or Sin Prodder before i can stabilize. Playing UA/EE MD helps quite a lot in this MU for exactly this reason, they are another answer to Chalice if we're not able to FoW in time.
Can't give any advice on Aluren unfortunatly, i didn't play against it since the Top ban, sorry.
Hi Angelo,
Do you run into problems whereby you find your deck is short of win-conditions? Would you prefer mentor or entreat in this new topless miracle lists?
@everyone-
what is your game and sideboarding plan for 4 control and aluren?
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