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Thread: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

  1. #1
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    Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    It's an interesting topic that deserves its own thread:

    Puresteel Paladin + Sunforger

    Puresteel Paladin
    Creature - Human Knight
    Whenever an Equipment enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card.
    Metalcraft - As long as you control 3 or more artifacts, each Equipment you control has equip 0.
    2/2

    Once the combo with Metalcraft active is established, you can fetch Seething Song and Manamophose for free draws and extra activations.

    Current known ways to go infinite:

    - Wheel of Sun and Moon is already in play enchanting you --> infinite draw + tons of mana, probably ending in a lethal Banefire

    - Another variant involves: Skyshroud Elf, Emrakul, Firestorm and Eladamri's Call

    Step 1: Get WWR from lands, activate Sunforger, grab a Seething Song
    Step 2: Second activation, grab Manamorphose, add GW to your mana pool. (RRRRGW now in it)
    Step 3: Third activation - get Eladamri's Call, fetch Elf and play it (RR left)
    Step 4: Filter one mana into W, activate to grab another Seething Song, filter the mana, generate more mana by fetching mana sources.
    Step 5: Use another Call to fetch Emrakul, grab Firestorm, discard Emrakul to it, shuffle your graveyard back (requires a Firestorm in your yard if you want to repeat the entire thing)
    Step 6: Repeat generating mana and drawing cards until instant win (exact wincon debateable).

    There might still be better combos out there. The best way to establish Metalcraft fast in a decent manner is also going to be an important topic.

  2. #2
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    You're going to want manamorphose 4 maindeck, 2 research and development maindeck, four wishboard cards for Research and Development. Double Negative should be 1 of maindeck and 1 sideboard, as well as Odds and Ends,

    I am thinking a WUr deck, with enough blue for FOW.

    I would definitely advise against trying to force some game winning combo into it, but more just a compact combo that fits in easily to enhance an aggro equips deck with counter tricks/research tricks backing up the efficient equips gameplan. I think this is literally the only use that research has
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    I was brainstorming this combo a bit and came up with this - (rough, rough draft)

    4 Arid Mesa
    2 Savannah
    2 Plateau
    1 Taiga
    4 Wooded Foothills

    4 Puresteel Paladin

    4 Orim's Chant
    4 Desperate Ritual
    1 Empty the Warrens
    3 Eladamri's Call
    1 Silence
    2 Grapeshot
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Seething Song
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Sunforger
    4 Steelshaper's Gift
    4 Lotus Petal

    I feel that the best won condition is going to be 2x grapeshot since it mean you do not need to run wheel of sun and moon or any other enablers to be able to win. You simply need to be able to activate Sunforger 9 times. The Empty and rituals and rituals are your other win condition, since when you don't have the combo you can just be a Belcher deck and make 10 1/1s on turn 1.

    This deck seems like it will never be better than Tendrils or Belcher, but it seems fun.

  4. #4

    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Another way to go infinite:
    Final Fortune & Enlightened Tutor->Wheel of Sun and Moon (or Elixir of Immortality
    and then, on the next, and subsequent turns:
    draw cast Whel of Sun and Moon, and sunforge for Final Fortune & Angel's Grace to get infinite turns.

    Another possibility is that
    Eladamri's Call->Painter's Servant provides access to all instants of CMC 4 or less like Turnabout and Brain Freeze.

    The other thread already mentions ramping into and hard casting Emrakul the Aeons Torn.

    Barren Glory finishes are possible, via Academy Rector and Renounce, but, at least at first flush, it looks terrible.

  5. #5

    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    i'm certainly put imperial recruiter to fetch the paladin and keep it WR
    seems quite funny deck with boil in side fetchable g2 you could beat high tide at least haha

  6. #6
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    @Scatterbrain: Grapeshot is a sorcery, so you can't grab it with Sunforger. And you have no way to draw/tutor for it.

    @Perm: Isn't Abeyance way more effective while staying in color to proctect the combo?

    Does fetching Research // Development even work? The red part of the card is 5cc, so I'm not sure.

    @P-E:
    Recruiter is a decent way to grab both Paladins and Stoneforge Mystic. Main problem is the absurd price tag, however.

    Bit I agree with Perm that a compact combo is probably the best way to go. The Wheel combo might be the most fitting one yet. 1-2 copies of Wheel (which isn't that bad against graveyard-based decks, too), Enlightened Tutors (which can grab important artifacts/artifact lands as well), 4 copies of Manamorphose and a single copy of Grapeshot (or two for redundancy). Once the combo is established, grab Manamorphoses until you have drawn your deck and finish them off with a giant Grapeshot.

    Edit: It also makes including a single copy of Abeyance easier to use. With Wheel in play, you can play/fetch it over and over again until they can't counter it anymore. Then you go off the turn it resolves, assuming you have to do so.
    Sunforger is also able to E Tutor for Wheel to go off the next turn, assuming you have 4 mana available.

    A tutorable way to destroy annoying artifacts (e.g. Chalice for 2) or enchantments (Counterbalance) might be good, too. I'm thinking about Orim's Thunder or Abolish.

  7. #7
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Bit I agree with Perm that a compact combo is probably the best way to go. The Wheel combo might be the most fitting one yet. 1-2 copies of Wheel (which isn't that bad against graveyard-based decks, too), Enlightened Tutors (which can grab important artifacts/artifact lands as well), 4 copies of Manamorphose and a single copy of Grapeshot. Once the combo is established, grab Manamorphoses until you have drawn your deck and finish them off with a giant Grapeshot.
    I appreciate that you do not focus on the combo as this is far from a good 2 card combo (tons of mana+Metalcraft requirement), let alone it is at present a 3 card combo. The major need is to to develop a solid aggro backbone. However, as compact as the minicombo sounds (1 Manamorphose, 1 Wheel and 1 Wincon are only 3 slots), the aggro plan is further diluted by 3-4 ETutor (card disadvantage), 1-2 Sunforger and 4 Paladin (an awkward fact that the knight is not a good aggro piece). This is some real design challenge.

  8. #8
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc View Post
    This is some real design challenge.
    It certainly is, but that's part of the fun.

    But what would you suggest as the aggro backbone? Vial is obviously a given. Serra Avengers? Jotun Grunts for recycling? Aside from getting Stoneforge Mystic and Paladin, Imperial Recruiter could also grab a Mirran Crusader for some brutal equipment beats.

    Grim Lavamancer + Basilisk Collar would also be nice in the setup, but I'm starting to doubt that you could run enough stuff to feed him regularly, even if you run burn to support it. The number of fetchlands you can run is limited due the need of artifact lands. He also doesn't go that well with equipment beats.

  9. #9
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Stoneforge Mystic seems like it should be in the deck somewhere. Grabs Sunforger and can cheat into play.

    Also maybe to help Metalcraft you could add in a couple of artifact lands.
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    By the

    Wheel of the sun and moon is just too limited of a card. So it basically combos with three other cards to produce an effect that just draws out your deck. WHy not just play an ad nauseam deck instead? What we should be looking for is something that supplements our aggro equips strat. Any card that we might like to draw our deck. I wouldn't be against it as a 1-of in the maindeck, and tutors used with it. But pretty much every instant besides, say, STP should be a 1 of, with a wishboard with research (which can be castd with sunforger, along with development)
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

  11. #11

    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    15 creatures
    4 stoneforge mystic
    4 puresteel paladin
    4 mother of runes
    3 mirran crusader

    13 spells
    3 manamorphose
    3 seething song
    3 swords to plowsheres
    1 disenchant
    3 eladamri's call

    11 artifacts
    4 Šther vials
    1 sword of light and shadow
    1 sword of feast and famine
    1 sword of fire and ice
    1 lightning greaves
    2 jitte
    1 sunforger

    21
    3 mox opal
    4 great furnace
    4 ancient den
    4 arid messa
    4 taiga
    2 plateau
    2 wooded foothills

    this is what i think the list could look like
    it doesnt go all for combo kill with sunforger but instead for manamorphose and sunforger and call for mystic to make the sunforger paladin net you a mystic a equipment and 4 cards and it can if needed hit with crusader with a sword on turn 3 becourse of seething song by limiting the combo peices to call manamorphose and song you dont end up with unuseable combo parts in hand without being able to go off and crusader with a sword and a sunforger hits harder than a progenitus each turn

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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    @Scatterbrain: Grapeshot is a sorcery, so you can't grab it with Sunforger. And you have no way to draw/tutor for it.

    @Perm: Isn't Abeyance way more effective while staying in color to proctect the combo?

    Does fetching Research // Development even work? The red part of the card is 5cc, so I'm not sure.

    @P-E:
    Recruiter is a decent way to grab both Paladins and Stoneforge Mystic. Main problem is the absurd price tag, however.

    Bit I agree with Perm that a compact combo is probably the best way to go. The Wheel combo might be the most fitting one yet. 1-2 copies of Wheel (which isn't that bad against graveyard-based decks, too), Enlightened Tutors (which can grab important artifacts/artifact lands as well), 4 copies of Manamorphose and a single copy of Grapeshot (or two for redundancy). Once the combo is established, grab Manamorphoses until you have drawn your deck and finish them off with a giant Grapeshot.

    Edit: It also makes including a single copy of Abeyance easier to use. With Wheel in play, you can play/fetch it over and over again until they can't counter it anymore. Then you go off the turn it resolves, assuming you have to do so.
    Sunforger is also able to E Tutor for Wheel to go off the next turn, assuming you have 4 mana available.

    A tutorable way to destroy annoying artifacts (e.g. Chalice for 2) or enchantments (Counterbalance) might be good, too. I'm thinking about Orim's Thunder or Abolish.
    From what i understand your are allowed to get Research // Development with Sunforge.
    1 part is Red, its instant and 1 part is CMC less then 4.

    TBH the final fortune and angelsgrace seem to be the best combo for a aggro deck. Final Fortune does have it function outside of the combo after all.

  13. #13
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    What about something along the lines of like, Blood Lust/Fatal Frenzy/Double Cleave? Lust a Puresteel Paladin to 6/1, Fatal Frenzy him for 12/1 Trample, Double Cleave him, re-attach the Sunforger, and you've got a 16/1 Double Strike Trample guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    That move does require 8 mana thought.

  15. #15
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    What about something along the lines of like, Blood Lust/Fatal Frenzy/Double Cleave? Lust a Puresteel Paladin to 6/1, Fatal Frenzy him for 12/1 Trample, Double Cleave him, re-attach the Sunforger, and you've got a 16/1 Double Strike Trample guy.
    Fists of the Anvil might be better than Blood Lust.

    Should work:

    1. Start with the typical from lands.
    2. Grab Seething Song, grab Manamorphose, resulting in RRRRWW.
    3. Grab another Manamorphose (RRRWWW). Now you can pull all three spells required.

  16. #16

    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    yhea but cleave can go into the song/call/morph combo so it goes like

    (wwr in pool) fetch song
    (wrrrrr in pool) fetch manamorphose
    (wwrrrr in pool) fetch song
    (wrrrrrrrr in pool) fetch mana morphose
    (wwrrrrrrrr in pool) fetch manamorphose
    (wwwrrrrrr in pool) fetch eladamri's call for stoneforge
    (wwrrrrr in pool) play stoneforge for sword of what ever
    (wrrrr in pool) play sword of what ever
    (wr in pool) fetch for double cleave
    equip paladin so he is a 8/4 double strik with protection from what ever creature the opponent has becourse of the sword and swing for 16 (shoot him in the head for 4 if the sword is fire and ice)

  17. #17
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusian View Post
    yhea but cleave can go into the song/call/morph combo so it goes like

    (wwr in pool) fetch song
    (wrrrrr in pool) fetch manamorphose
    (wwrrrr in pool) fetch song
    (wrrrrrrrr in pool) fetch mana morphose
    (wwrrrrrrrr in pool) fetch manamorphose
    (wwwrrrrrr in pool) fetch eladamri's call for stoneforge
    (wwrrrrr in pool) play stoneforge for sword of what ever
    (wrrrr in pool) play sword of what ever
    (wr in pool) fetch for double cleave
    equip paladin so he is a 8/4 double strik with protection from what ever creature the opponent has becourse of the sword and swing for 16 (shoot him in the head for 4 if the sword is fire and ice)
    That does sound workable while reducing the junk in the deck.

    Would it be worth it to splash green and run a full set of Call, though?

  18. #18

    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    i think that 3-4 eladamri's call is a good call and it does tricks with vial too and it can tutor for any part of the combo when it works with stoneforge

  19. #19
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    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Now that the entire spoiler is known, we should discuss the new cards:

    Batterskull
    Artifact - Equipment
    Living weapon
    Equipped creature gets +4/+4 and has vigilance and lifelink.
    : Return Batterskull to its owner's hand.
    Equip

    Looks like a good tutor target for Stoneforge Mystic.

    Should Mental Misstep be run as well?

    I found a way to make Tacosnape's combo more efficient - Colossal Might gives 4 power and trample, ending in a 10/2 trampling double striker. That's a two card combo that requires only 2 activations, meaning you can also cut down the number of Seething Songs.

  20. #20

    Re: Brainstorming: Sunforger Combo

    Naya Charm supports both the aggro and combo strategies and provides a lot of utility.

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