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Thread: [Deck] Painter-Stone

  1. #641
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    So, I am a long time Shortcake (R/w painter) player who has just recently made the switch to a U/R/b based deck. There were a couple of other people wanting to see the list and I thought it makes more sense to post it on this forum than the imperial painter forum as the base is pretty much the same. So, this is where I am at with my list right now:

    // Lands
    2 Great Furnace
    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain
    1 Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Seat of the Synod
    1 Badlands
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn

    // Creatures
    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Baleful Strix
    1 Trinket Mage

    // Spells
    4 Grindstone
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Mox Opal
    2 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    2 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    4 Force of Will
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Intuition
    4 Brainstorm

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 Blood Moon
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 Trinisphere
    SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
    SB: 2 Kolaghan's Command
    SB: 1 Sudden Demise
    SB: 1 Notion Thief
    SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb

    I think I am 14-2 with the deck so far. I had a loss to burn which I think is just a bad MU (haven't found a painter deck that likes burn) and a loss to Shardless BUG where I just got tempo'd out and didn't see a blood moon. I have tried straight u/r painter in the past and, although the speed to combo is much better than shortcake lists, it just felt really fragile. The planeswalkers in this deck give a very good alt win condition and make the deck much more resilient. I can't stress how good Daretti in particular is in this deck. I would like to see a third ensnaring bridge somewhere in the 75 along with a fourth grave hate piece but not sure where to put it. I haven't gotten to actually play with notion thief yet and it may just be cute. That would probably be the first card to go in the SB. For those who expressed interest, please give it some play time and let me know what you think. I am always open to suggestions.

  2. #642
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Just finished a 50 ppl tournament today with mono U painter
    Went 3-2-1
    Played with 2 back to basics MD, JTMS thopter spy network and 3 blasts SB
    beat 2-0 lands, goblins and 4c delver
    Lost 1-2 to monored storm and 0-2 to BUG delver
    Draw with 4c delver

    This deck's a blast of fun to play. Fully satisfied with 3 daze MD

  3. #643

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    List?

  4. #644
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by drude1 View Post
    For those who expressed interest, please give it some play time and let me know what you think. I am always open to suggestions.
    I played four games with your list, got 2-2.

    Lost hard against Enchantress (I think they had drawn have their library, then Emrakul turn 4)
    Lost 0-2 against UW Control (with Intuition + Accumulated Knowledge)

    Won against Combo Lands.
    Won against Esper Stoneblade.

    The losses were also because the deck was colorscrewed. Having Ancient Tomb + Great Furnace + Mountain in hand, while only having UB spells...

    I'd cut the Swamp for another Fetchland, because black is only the tertiary color. I never needed Daretti, but I think he's good.

  5. #645
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by compacta_d View Post
    List?
    MD
    12 island
    1 academy ruins
    3 ancient tomb
    2 flooded strand
    2 polluted delta

    4 painter's servant
    1 spellskite
    1 pithing needle
    4 grindstone
    3 relic of progenitus*
    2 ensnaring bridge

    4 whir of invention
    2 back to basics*
    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    4 FOW
    3 daze
    2 spell pierce
    2 counterspell*

    SB
    2 JTMS*
    2 thopter spy network
    2 llawan
    3 hydroblast
    2 ratchet bomb
    1 tormod's crypt
    2 surgical ext.
    1 phy. revoker

    the *slots are those that could be switched between MD and SB

    other notes:
    - never missed a probe (i don't think you really need them in this deck)
    - not to sure about 3 relics MD and JTMS in side (i'm going to try and switch them)
    - counterspell felt too heavy, maybe should be replaced by swan song / flusterstorm / 4th daze / misdirection
    - 1 artifact blue land?
    - up to 5/6 fetch?
    - thirst of knowledge / predict to additional CA vs B based?
    - never missed a blast MD and not always sided them in
    - 1 aether spellbomb MD?

  6. #646
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by sco0ter View Post
    I played four games with your list, got 2-2.

    Lost hard against Enchantress (I think they had drawn have their library, then Emrakul turn 4)
    Lost 0-2 against UW Control (with Intuition + Accumulated Knowledge)

    Won against Combo Lands.
    Won against Esper Stoneblade.

    The losses were also because the deck was colorscrewed. Having Ancient Tomb + Great Furnace + Mountain in hand, while only having UB spells...

    I'd cut the Swamp for another Fetchland, because black is only the tertiary color. I never needed Daretti, but I think he's good.
    I can see where enchantress could be a problem and probably the best reason to keep notion thief in the board. r/w painter always had canonist to slow them down. Maybe this deck needs a similar effect. Then again, I don't know how much I would morph this deck to make enchantress a better MU.

    As for color screw, yes, it can always happen with a 3 color deck and I could certainly get behind adding another fetch land. Having said that, I would never keep a hand with 2 red and a colorless source and only blue and black spells in my hand. I also like the one-of basic swamp as it is much easier to fetch your basics and then drop a blood moon out of the board. Yes, black is a tertiary color but an important one later in the game. If anything, I would probably cut one of the ancient tombs or maybe one of the artifact lands for another fetch.

    I have played u/w control a couple times now and have not really had much of a problem with that deck. You just have to concentrate on controlling their early threats and landing a planeswalker. You probably are not going to win the MU with the combo unless you hit it really early. However, it isn't hard to control their few threats and try to bait them with pieces of your combo. Grindstone without painter is actually a reasonable win-con against them as well.

    thanks for trying the deck though. I appreciate the input.

  7. #647
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by hellhound View Post
    MD
    <snip>

    other notes:
    - never missed a probe (i don't think you really need them in this deck)
    - not to sure about 3 relics MD and JTMS in side (i'm going to try and switch them)
    - counterspell felt too heavy, maybe should be replaced by swan song / flusterstorm / 4th daze / misdirection
    - 1 artifact blue land?
    - up to 5/6 fetch?
    - thirst of knowledge / predict to additional CA vs B based?
    - never missed a blast MD and not always sided them in
    - 1 aether spellbomb MD?
    Good call on the probes/Dazes.

    I like the idea of maindeck Jaces over 2 Relics. That still leaves one to search with Whirr if you need it. You just lose some psuedo-acceleration from Improvise.

    Counterspells are slow, but I'm undecided between Flusterstorm/Misdirection/4th Daze. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

    Not sure about Thirst, since you don't want any of your artifacts in the yard. You could consider Trinket Mage if you want card advantage. He's a good chump blocker, can attack under Bridge, and counters edict effects. Makes Seat of the Synod and Spellbomb better as well.

    Do the BEBs even deserve spots in the SB?

    I think the 1-of Spellskite in the MD is a bit weak too.

  8. #648

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    Good call on the probes/Dazes.

    I like the idea of maindeck Jaces over 2 Relics. That still leaves one to search with Whirr if you need it. You just lose some psuedo-acceleration from Improvise.

    Counterspells are slow, but I'm undecided between Flusterstorm/Misdirection/4th Daze. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

    Not sure about Thirst, since you don't want any of your artifacts in the yard. You could consider Trinket Mage if you want card advantage. He's a good chump blocker, can attack under Bridge, and counters edict effects. Makes Seat of the Synod and Spellbomb better as well.

    Do the BEBs even deserve spots in the SB?

    I think the 1-of Spellskite in the MD is a bit weak too.
    I had similar thoughts.

    I liked counterspell.

    daze seemed chunky to me as you want UUU for whir.

    Main deck tezzeret instead of jace? Or does the dividing of win cons help? maybe a 1/4 split?

    flusterstorm has been good for me.

  9. #649
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    Hello, looking forward to (slowly) acquiring the pieces for this deck.

    Speaking of that, I have two card choice related questions:

    1) Would y'all recommend some combination of Mishra's Bauble and Predict in the main? If so, where in a UR list?

    2) What would y'all recommend for an alternate win-con for thes side against Leyline of Sanctity or (should I really be cursed) Eldrazi Titans? Personally, I'm entertaining 1x Emrakul 1.0, 1x Myr Battlesphere, and 1x Thornbite Staff: the idea of milling myself with the main combo (if that is possible), then using an active Goblin Welder to bring back Staff and equipping it to Welder next turn just so I can mill again and create an infinite army seems hilarious to me. Quite possibly win-more though, as the staff may be an unnecessary aspect, since generating value off of MBS is just as sweet over time.

    EDIT: Actually, for q2, I'm thinking Possessed Portal and Myr Battlesphere; play some stax while I swing in.
    Last edited by EpicLevelCommoner; 11-01-2017 at 02:33 PM.

  10. #650

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    Hello, looking forward to (slowly) acquiring the pieces for this deck.

    Speaking of that, I have two card choice related questions:

    1) Would y'all recommend some combination of Mishra's Bauble and Predict in the main? If so, where in a UR list?

    2) What would y'all recommend for an alternate win-con for thes side against Leyline of Sanctity or (should I really be cursed) Eldrazi Titans? Personally, I'm entertaining 1x Emrakul 1.0, 1x Myr Battlesphere, and 1x Thornbite Staff: the idea of milling myself with the main combo (if that is possible), then using an active Goblin Welder to bring back Staff and equipping it to Welder next turn just so I can mill again and create an infinite army seems hilarious to me. Quite possibly win-more though, as the staff may be an unnecessary aspect, since generating value off of MBS is just as sweet over time.

    EDIT: Actually, for q2, I'm thinking Possessed Portal and Myr Battlesphere; play some stax while I swing in.
    I've only been dabbling with the archetype for a short while after top got banned but here are my thoughts.

    I wouldn't run Bauble or Predict in the deck. Bauble doesn't really do anything other than enable opals a little bit more now that top is banned. UR Painter isn't really a deck that cares about card quantity, so predict is kind mediocre. You're looking for A + B and between brainstorm, ponder, the search effects and grindstone + goblin welder you should be able to cycle through your deck pretty easily.

    I wouldn't be too worried about Leyline, I think that the only deck that you'll commonly find them run in is Sneak and Show. You have access to arguable the most vindicates in the format naturally, Painter + Blasts are great and if those effects are in abundance in your metagame you can always gear your sideboard to beat them i.e. adding bounce spells or potentially splashing a color like W for Wear/Tear and additional hatebear effects. I don't know about the best but some of the better win conditions are the walkers Chandra/JTMS/Tezz since they attack from a different axis or if you're running wurmcoils, just beating them down. Like I said before you can cycle through your deck pretty fast so it's not difficult to find your graveyard hate.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  11. #651
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Bauble is probably just worse then Pyrite Spellbomb too. Both the Nihil Spellbomb and the Pyrite Spellbomb are actually pretty good in a deck with 4 Goblin Welders. Additionally Pyrite can take care of some trouble some creatures or work as a machine gun with Goblin Welder

  12. #652

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    So question for the crowd that runs the Grim Monolith + Transmute package. I don't own a full playset of Transmutes, would running the wurmcoil + grim monolith package still be decent?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  13. #653

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    So question for the crowd that runs the Grim Monolith + Transmute package. I don't own a full playset of Transmutes, would running the wurmcoil + grim monolith package still be decent?
    I'm at the point of being convinced Whir of Invention is better than Transmute Artifact.

    Tap not sac.

    Similar cost actually. Most times at UUU it's actually cheaper.

    Instant speed > Sorcery.

    Card often reads :UUU Instant. Search your library for an artifact and put it onto the battlefield.

  14. #654

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Hi,

    Painter is my heart deck. Since the top ban i Nevers played it.
    Last Time i played grixis painter at the eternal in Europe.
    Are you sur grixis painter can perf ?

  15. #655
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by compacta_d View Post
    I'm at the point of being convinced Whir of Invention is better than Transmute Artifact.

    Tap not sac.

    Similar cost actually. Most times at UUU it's actually cheaper.

    Instant speed > Sorcery.

    Card often reads :UUU Instant. Search your library for an artifact and put it onto the battlefield.
    +1

    I've had success jamming a few TNN's and a Jitte in the main. Whir of Invention is great to fetch Jitte which can also take pressure off of painter servant.

  16. #656

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    +1

    I've had success jamming a few TNN's and a Jitte in the main. Whir of Invention is great to fetch Jitte which can also take pressure off of painter servant.
    I like that a LOT.

  17. #657
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    I've only been dabbling with the archetype for a short while after top got banned but here are my thoughts.

    I wouldn't run Bauble or Predict in the deck. Bauble doesn't really do anything other than enable opals a little bit more now that top is banned. UR Painter isn't really a deck that cares about card quantity, so predict is kind mediocre. You're looking for A + B and between brainstorm, ponder, the search effects and grindstone + goblin welder you should be able to cycle through your deck pretty easily.

    I wouldn't be too worried about Leyline, I think that the only deck that you'll commonly find them run in is Sneak and Show. You have access to arguable the most vindicates in the format naturally, Painter + Blasts are great and if those effects are in abundance in your metagame you can always gear your sideboard to beat them i.e. adding bounce spells or potentially splashing a color like W for Wear/Tear and additional hatebear effects. I don't know about the best but some of the better win conditions are the walkers Chandra/JTMS/Tezz since they attack from a different axis or if you're running wurmcoils, just beating them down. Like I said before you can cycle through your deck pretty fast so it's not difficult to find your graveyard hate.
    Understood: for reference, here is the tenative list I'm entertaining.

    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Grindstone
    4 Goblin Welder
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Mox Opal
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Opt
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Transmute Artifact
    4 Force of Will
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Island
    4 Seat of the Synod
    2 Great Furnace
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors

    Any recommendations, particularly over the Probes and Opts (or Preordain, depending on if I think chaining cantrips then responding to LED is worth or not)?

    Also, and forgive me for what may be baseless conjecture on the subject of Whir vs Transmute, but I believe it depends on how many LEDs you run: LED can't act as a ritual for Whir unless you happen to draw Whir after cracking LED in response to a cantrip, whereas LED works very well with Transmute in that regard (a Mox Opal can become anything in the main with some mana left over, 2 LEDs and a Transmute turn anything into Wurmcoil engine).

    In a similar vein, Gamble may be better with an active Welder, as it has a cheaper mana cost than both Whir and Transmute and doesn't require you to deteriorate a potentially solid board state. For example, T1 Welder, T2 Grindstone, LED, Gamble (Servant)-->LED activate, Grindstone activate-->Welder activate (Grindstone-->Servant) is a win turn 2, albeit a fragile and conditional one.

    So, to summarize, Whir is probably better without LEDs, Transmute is probably better with LEDs but without Welder, and Gamble is probably better with both LEDs and Welder.

  18. #658
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post

    In a similar vein, Gamble may be better with an active Welder, as it has a cheaper mana cost than both Whir and Transmute and doesn't require you to deteriorate a potentially solid board state. For example, T1 Welder, T2 Grindstone, LED, Gamble (Servant)-->LED activate, Grindstone activate-->Welder activate (Grindstone-->Servant) is a win turn 2, albeit a fragile and conditional one.
    That's actually a super sweet interaction. It also puts into my head running a Punishing Fire package as (in theory) you don't care about lifegain from grove and you can use that as an anti-hatebear / clock suite. Alongside the classic host of countermagic you pack, seems legit.
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  19. #659

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Doishy View Post
    That's actually a super sweet interaction. It also puts into my head running a Punishing Fire package as (in theory) you don't care about lifegain from grove and you can use that as an anti-hatebear / clock suite. Alongside the classic host of countermagic you pack, seems legit.
    I have LEDs and never really wanted them in this deck. I feel like (not tested) that intuition with welder is probably still better.

    I like that interaction. It is faster, something like that you WOULD want probe to see if coast is clear to super fast wombo combo them.

    LEDs tap for 1 when casting Whir. Still fast mana, still not bad. Different interaction.

  20. #660

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by compacta_d View Post
    I'm at the point of being convinced Whir of Invention is better than Transmute Artifact.

    Tap not sac.

    Similar cost actually. Most times at UUU it's actually cheaper.

    Instant speed > Sorcery.

    Card often reads :UUU Instant. Search your library for an artifact and put it onto the battlefield.
    When we are talking about whirl are we talking about the UR or U versions? I can see whirl being significantly better than transmute especially when you don't have goblin welder. I don't know about the UR version, I guess in most situations it's probably equivalent to an instant speed transmute but just having the ability to go UU entomb is pretty big when you have an active welder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    +1

    I've had success jamming a few TNN's and a Jitte in the main. Whir of Invention is great to fetch Jitte which can also take pressure off of painter servant.
    In the mono U version? Jitte seems kind of weak when you have 8 creatures in your deck out of which 4 are very mediocre in combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    Understood: for reference, here is the tenative list I'm entertaining.

    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Grindstone
    4 Goblin Welder
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Mox Opal
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Opt
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Transmute Artifact
    4 Force of Will
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Island
    4 Seat of the Synod
    2 Great Furnace
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors

    Any recommendations, particularly over the Probes and Opts (or Preordain, depending on if I think chaining cantrips then responding to LED is worth or not)?
    I don't think that the number of LEDs really effects which tutor effect you want to run. I'd run 1-2 LEDs regardless, it just gives you so many more angles for wins. I've won a bunch of games just because I was able to use LED to combo off before my opponent got their hate pieces online. Same thing in postboard games except you have to be way more cautious about going all in. At the very worst you can do things like crack LED for mana maintaining priority when casting a spell.

    Instead of running the opts or gitaxian probes i'd run intuitions, more blasts, cards that will keep you alive like ensnaring or planeswalkers. We don't really have any engine that combos with gitaxian probe and against most decks you should know what you have to play around anyways. If you want to run more cantrips preordain is significantly better than opt. In game 1 you just want to be as fast/consistent as possible and in game 2 you transform into the midrangey/controlly combo deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

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