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Thread: [Deck] Painter-Stone

  1. #661

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I will probably test this (this weekend) :

    3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    1 Saheeli Rai

    4 Painter's Servant
    2 Baleful Strix
    4 Goblin Welder


    4 Force of Will
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Intuition
    1 Transmute Artifact
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Grindstone
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Mox Opal


    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    2 Great Furnace
    3 Seat of the Synod
    1 Vault of Whispers
    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 Badlands
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Inventor's Fair


    Sideboard


    1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Kolaghan's Command
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Sudden Demise
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Flusterstorm

  2. #662
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanhur View Post
    I will probably test this (this weekend) :

    3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    1 Saheeli Rai

    4 Painter's Servant
    2 Baleful Strix
    4 Goblin Welder


    4 Force of Will
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Intuition
    1 Transmute Artifact
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Grindstone
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Mox Opal


    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    2 Great Furnace
    3 Seat of the Synod
    1 Vault of Whispers
    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 Badlands
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Inventor's Fair


    Sideboard


    1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Kolaghan's Command
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Sudden Demise
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Flusterstorm
    Your will have to let us know what you think about Saheeli. Her ultimate should just win you the game (although I would maybe play 1 of spellskite with Saheeli) but it's just so hard to get to (5 turns) and her other abilities kinda suck/she doesn't protect herself.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

  3. #663

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by drude1 View Post
    Your will have to let us know what you think about Saheeli. Her ultimate should just win you the game (although I would maybe play 1 of spellskite with Saheeli) but it's just so hard to get to (5 turns) and her other abilities kinda suck/she doesn't protect herself.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
    I am not really fan about Saheeli, but i had one slot main deck and i do not know what can i play. Maybe Dack fayden? With welder and bridge it's maybe fine.

  4. #664

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I'm usually talking mono U.

    I have welders and blasts. Need tarns and volcs.

    Plan is to run mostly mono U list, fit the 4 welders in and 3-4 blasts main deck.

    Deck easily has room for it.

    Still on whir over transmute even with welder.

    If your deck is majority blue, UUU instant is better than 1UU sorcery+sac.

    I'll try some LEDs, but if you transmute crack LED, that's a huge force/daze check. Most of my opponents are usually on blue as well and I won't be passing that check.

    Cracking LED to fire grindstone is safer if they're tapped out, but not great with a hand full of cards.

    I think mono blue vers probably just plays much slower and different than the multi colored versions. I don't plan on changing THAT part of it by adding the red. Welder gives more resistance to abrupt decay and better ways to destroy pithing needles etc.

    I WILL probably add an intuition/Reanimate back up target though.

  5. #665

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Has anybody tries Padeem, Consul of Innovation?

  6. #666

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 14 Artifact
    4 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Grindstone
    1 Bottled Cloister
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Cursed Scroll
    1 Pyrite Spellbomb

    // 15 Creature
    4 Goblin Welder
    4 Painter's Servant
    1 Combustible Gearhulk
    1 Hope of Ghirapur
    4 Scrapheap Scrounger
    1 Hex Parasite

    // 4 Instant
    4 Pyroblast

    // 21 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Great Furnace
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Badlands
    5 Mountain
    1 Inventors' Fair
    4 Mishra's Factory

    // 2 Planeswalker
    2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

    // 4 Sorcery
    4 Gamble
    Not the worst attempt imo.
    Never played this archetype before but in the one match I tried I won game 1 by Welder grinding, and when my opponent played Leyline of the Void in G2 I won by looting all my Welders/Crucible away while attacking with Smuggler's Copter.

    It does feel kind of weird to be playing Ensnaring Bridge and Scrapheap Scrounger in the same deck and perhaps there is a problem of trying to do too many things at once.

  7. #667
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Took my grixis painter list to a local ďbig cashĒ tourney over the weekend. It was 5 rounds of swiss cutting to top 8. I ended up in top 4 before losing to a standard ďHonda CivicĒ grixis delver list.
    The deck felt very powerful and resilient. I won through games of people trying to beat me by surgical extracting a part of the combo or needling grindstone. I would just beat them with 5/5ís from Tezzeret or other creature beatdown typically. My losses came at the expense of my mana base, which I will have to address. Anyway, thought I would write a little report. First, here is the list I played:

    // Lands
    1 [MR] Great Furnace
    3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    1 [UNH] Island
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    2 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [UNH] Swamp
    1 [B] Underground Sea
    2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
    1 [B] Badlands
    3 [KTK] Polluted Delta
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [UNH] Mountain

    // Creatures
    4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
    4 [UL] Goblin Welder
    2 [C16] Baleful Strix

    // Spells
    4 [TE] Grindstone
    3 [IA] Pyroblast
    2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
    2 [SOM] Mox Opal
    1 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 [C15] Brainstorm
    2 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    2 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    2 [TE] Intuition
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [DTK] Kolaghan's Command
    1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [CH] Blood Moon
    SB: 1 [EMA] Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 [DGM] Notion Thief
    SB: 1 [C13] Sudden Demise
    SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
    SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience

    As for the actual tournament, it went something like thisÖ
    Rnd 1 vs U/W/r stoneblade (2-1)
    Game 1 I comboíd off very quickly before he really had a chance to do anything. He countered one or two things but I had redundancy
    Game 2 he had a million counterspells and removal spells and we were eventually just racing between me trying to naturally grind him out and him ticking up a Jace. The Jace won.
    Game 3 was also a battle. We went to time and I had grindstone down but he kept killing my painters and countering my planeswalkers. In our last turns he tapped down to just one mana open on his turn so I went for a painter without backup and he had nothing. Game win.

    Rnd 2 vs Bomberman/Mentor combo (0-2)
    Played against a guy named Joe. I know he is a good player but I have no idea what he is on. Turn one he drops an ancient tomb and plays a walking ballista on 1. I assume he is on some sort of big eldrazi list (although thatís not his style). Turn 2 he does it again but I have welder in hand and played a pyrite spellbomb on turn 1 so I force his second ballista and take out his first one so my welder can survive. Over the next few turn he plays a million bobbles, Bob, and finds auriok salvagers, buys all his ballistas back and eventually goes off. For future reference, counter the salvagers.
    Game 2 I mulligan to an okay hand but not enough mana. I put pithing needle on ballista so my welder can stick around but he drops mentor and makes a bunch of dudes before I can find enough mana to do anything. Lose.
    *Iíve actually played this MU before elsewhere and havenít had problems with it but I knew what was coming and had the mana to participate.

    Rnd 3 vs Lands (2-0)
    This match-up is still basically an auto-win. Game 1 was actually close. He made a 20/20 Merit Lage quickly but I had a welder and strix out early and then found a Daretti so was able to keep swapping out a daretti token for the strix, draw a card and block with the strix until I found the painter and comboíd out.
    Game 2 I had an early Blood Moon which he did get rid of eventually but I just comboíd out again by that time.

    Rnd 4 vs G/B/r NicFit brew (2-1)
    By now Iíve been able to scout enough so I knew what he was on (generally). Game one I was able to combo out quickly before he really did anything.
    Game 2 I actually brought in Blood Moon because I just didnít think he was expecting them. I mulled and had that, blast and a bunch of land in my hand. He ended up fetching for a couple non-basics but hit my blood moon with thoughtseize before I could play it. He then dropped an early pernicious deed and I was stuck. He ended up playing green sun zenith into a couple of DINOSAURS and beat me down.
    Game 3 He got a painter into my graveyard early and surgicaled it away then hit my grindstones (??) with slaughter games. I played a blood moon to strangle his mana a little and then dropped Tezzeret and made 5/5s and he was dead. He did try to get out of it with a burning wish but I had a FoW for the win.

    Rnd 5 was able to I.D. into top 8.

    Top 8 against Reanimator/Storm (2-1)
    My opponent was Dana who again I know is a good player and likes to mix it up. I know he is on some sort of Black splash blue Reanimator/storm combo, kind of like a TinFins variant.
    I got rolled game 1. I think I actually got out a bridge but he quickly reanimated at griselbrand, drew a million cards and stormed me out.
    Game 2: I obviously bring in the leylines but I donít see one in opening hand. I mull to 6 and still donít see one but have FoW, welder, flusterstorm, painter and land and decide to keep. I drop turn 1 welder and he actually passes on turn 1. I drop turn 2 painter on blue to turn on FoW and any card plus flusterstorm for permission. He draws a few turns and does nothing. I eventually eot notion thief with FoW and flusterstorm still in hand and just beat him down 5 points a turn until he is dead.
    Game 3 I again donít see leyline but have combo and FoW in hand so I keep. I end up countering a couple things early and start to assemble combo quickly. He really isnít doing anything. I try to combo out once and he bounces my painter in response. I try again the second time, this time with blast back up and he has nothing. Win!

    Top 4 against Grixis Delver (0-2)
    This match was horrible. I basically had a bunch of 3 and 4 drops in my hand and get wasted out of the game before doing anything game 1. Game 2 I had dual lands and blood moon in hand and some permission. My plan was to lock him out. So, turn 1 I play a land and pass. He fetches a dual and attempts to play a deathrite but considering my plan I force it. Turn to a play another land and pass. His turn 2 he plays ANOTHER deathrite and wastes one my lands. From here he wastes cantrips and wastes me some more and plays some threats. I never get to 3 mana and just die. I think if I would have had fetches into basics vs my duals I would have gotten there, but what do you do.

    So again, my losses basically were to lack of mana. I didnít have trouble with color screw but I just didnít get to enough lands. I think I would try to add a couple more cheap cantrips to even that out. I think the first thing to go would be the K.command. Itís a powerful card but probably not necessary at the expense of finding the combo or the resources to play the combo. I am actually considering trying a Search of Azcanta main as it interacts well with welder and eventually just starts drawing me cards in the mid and late game. . It might just be a little slow and would obviously have to come out when Iím on the blood moon plan. Itís also interesting to me that opponents try to attack my graveyard as much as they do. People are going as far as bringing in Leylines against me which I guess turns off welder but doesnít do much beyond that. Otherwise I would probably just try to fit 2 copies of ponder in there to even out my draws.
    The sideboard seemed pretty good and leyline/Helm is the only thing that I can think of against the big eldrazi decks. I donít know about Sudden Demise and Toxic Deluge. I might replace one of them with the k.command but I also like having mass removal. I would also like to have some sort of canonist effect as well that is an artifact but not white. Iíll have to look at my options. Again, any ideas or input would certainly be welcome.
    HmmmÖ. This got kinda long. Sorry.

  8. #668
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    Has anybody tries Padeem, Consul of Innovation?
    This card actually doesn't seem bad. I've never played with it but I think it would be worth trying. It's spendy for legacy but it's effect is nice and isn't easily hit by removal. At 1/4 it's actually not a horrible wall either.

  9. #669

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Got T8 at a 43 person event with a Grixis list over the weekend. A little tired of new-Miracles so decided to give this deck a shot again. With all the Surgicals and Delver/Pile running around, I decided I wanted a backup plan:

    12 Creatures
    4 Baleful Strix
    4 Goblin Welder
    4 Painter's Servant

    5 Planeswalkers
    3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    2 Darretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

    9 Spells
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Force of Will
    2 Intuition

    12 Artifacts
    4 Grindstone
    3 Thopter Foundry
    2 Sword of the Meek
    2 Mox Opal
    1 Nihil Spellbomb

    22 Lands
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Badlands
    2 Seat of the Synod
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Great Furnace
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain

    Sideboard
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 By Force
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Force of Will
    1 Tormod's Crypt

    All I wanted to do was play against fair decks. Alas, that was not the case. The ThopterSword package felt alright and adds some cute interactions, especially alongside Goblin Welder. However, it may be too cute for its own good, especially because the inclusion of Strix and Foundry led me to cut Ancient Tomb because too many opening hands were very clunky with it in the deck, which in turn slows down possible Grindstone kills.

    Matchups:
    R1: 2-1 ANT.
    Lost G1 on her turn 2, she probably overboarded and I just put the Grind combo on the table G2 and G3.

    R2: 2-1 Infect.
    Lost G1 due to no Strix. G2 and G3 Strix(es) holds the fort while I assemble the Grind combo with permission. I never saw a Blighted Agent, so that was fortunate.

    R3: 2-0 Maverick. -ThopterSword really shone here.
    G1 Tezzet digs me into redundant Painters after Qasali Pridemage takes out the first one. G2 I get him with ThopterSword.

    R4: 2-1 Sneak and Show.
    Lose G1 to typical Show and Tell things. G2 I manage to Spyglass Sneak and put a Bridge down. A Surgical reveals he has no Echoing Truths in. G3 he starts with Leyline of Sanctity in play, and goes for an early JtMS but I have the Pyroblast. On his followup Show he puts in Sneak while I put in Spyglass and see his hand of 3 fatties. I name Sneak, thankful he was going to try to kill me that turn. He Needles Welder soon after and I Revoke Griselbrand, beginning my Revoker + Welder beatdown. Eventually he Shows again to put in Emrakul, but I put in Bridge, then Shows another time to put in Griselbrand. At this point, I know his only out is to constantly discard Emrakul to handsize and hope I don't have any more win conditions. Close, but I have 1 Pyroblast left somewhere in my deck to blast his Leyline, 1 Tezzeret, and 1 Foundry. Tezzeret draws out his in-hand Force and we stare back and forth until I eventually Surgical his Forces and land Thopter Sword, eventually making enough Thopters to overcome Griselbrand's lifelink.
    R5+6: ID.
    We split top8 for ~50 credit each.

  10. #670

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by drude1 View Post
    Took my grixis painter list to a local ďbig cashĒ tourney over the weekend. It was 5 rounds of swiss cutting to top 8. I ended up in top 4 before losing to a standard ďHonda CivicĒ grixis delver list.
    The deck felt very powerful and resilient. I won through games of people trying to beat me by surgical extracting a part of the combo or needling grindstone. I would just beat them with 5/5ís from Tezzeret or other creature beatdown typically. My losses came at the expense of my mana base, which I will have to address. Anyway, thought I would write a little report. First, here is the list I played:

    // Lands
    1 [MR] Great Furnace
    3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    1 [UNH] Island
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    2 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [UNH] Swamp
    1 [B] Underground Sea
    2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
    1 [B] Badlands
    3 [KTK] Polluted Delta
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [UNH] Mountain

    // Creatures
    4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
    4 [UL] Goblin Welder
    2 [C16] Baleful Strix

    // Spells
    4 [TE] Grindstone
    3 [IA] Pyroblast
    2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
    2 [SOM] Mox Opal
    1 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 [C15] Brainstorm
    2 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    2 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    2 [TE] Intuition
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [DTK] Kolaghan's Command
    1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [CH] Blood Moon
    SB: 1 [EMA] Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 [DGM] Notion Thief
    SB: 1 [C13] Sudden Demise
    SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
    SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience

    As for the actual tournament, it went something like thisÖ
    Rnd 1 vs U/W/r stoneblade (2-1)
    Game 1 I comboíd off very quickly before he really had a chance to do anything. He countered one or two things but I had redundancy
    Game 2 he had a million counterspells and removal spells and we were eventually just racing between me trying to naturally grind him out and him ticking up a Jace. The Jace won.
    Game 3 was also a battle. We went to time and I had grindstone down but he kept killing my painters and countering my planeswalkers. In our last turns he tapped down to just one mana open on his turn so I went for a painter without backup and he had nothing. Game win.

    Rnd 2 vs Bomberman/Mentor combo (0-2)
    Played against a guy named Joe. I know he is a good player but I have no idea what he is on. Turn one he drops an ancient tomb and plays a walking ballista on 1. I assume he is on some sort of big eldrazi list (although thatís not his style). Turn 2 he does it again but I have welder in hand and played a pyrite spellbomb on turn 1 so I force his second ballista and take out his first one so my welder can survive. Over the next few turn he plays a million bobbles, Bob, and finds auriok salvagers, buys all his ballistas back and eventually goes off. For future reference, counter the salvagers.
    Game 2 I mulligan to an okay hand but not enough mana. I put pithing needle on ballista so my welder can stick around but he drops mentor and makes a bunch of dudes before I can find enough mana to do anything. Lose.
    *Iíve actually played this MU before elsewhere and havenít had problems with it but I knew what was coming and had the mana to participate.

    Rnd 3 vs Lands (2-0)
    This match-up is still basically an auto-win. Game 1 was actually close. He made a 20/20 Merit Lage quickly but I had a welder and strix out early and then found a Daretti so was able to keep swapping out a daretti token for the strix, draw a card and block with the strix until I found the painter and comboíd out.
    Game 2 I had an early Blood Moon which he did get rid of eventually but I just comboíd out again by that time.

    Rnd 4 vs G/B/r NicFit brew (2-1)
    By now Iíve been able to scout enough so I knew what he was on (generally). Game one I was able to combo out quickly before he really did anything.
    Game 2 I actually brought in Blood Moon because I just didnít think he was expecting them. I mulled and had that, blast and a bunch of land in my hand. He ended up fetching for a couple non-basics but hit my blood moon with thoughtseize before I could play it. He then dropped an early pernicious deed and I was stuck. He ended up playing green sun zenith into a couple of DINOSAURS and beat me down.
    Game 3 He got a painter into my graveyard early and surgicaled it away then hit my grindstones (??) with slaughter games. I played a blood moon to strangle his mana a little and then dropped Tezzeret and made 5/5s and he was dead. He did try to get out of it with a burning wish but I had a FoW for the win.

    Rnd 5 was able to I.D. into top 8.

    Top 8 against Reanimator/Storm (2-1)
    My opponent was Dana who again I know is a good player and likes to mix it up. I know he is on some sort of Black splash blue Reanimator/storm combo, kind of like a TinFins variant.
    I got rolled game 1. I think I actually got out a bridge but he quickly reanimated at griselbrand, drew a million cards and stormed me out.
    Game 2: I obviously bring in the leylines but I donít see one in opening hand. I mull to 6 and still donít see one but have FoW, welder, flusterstorm, painter and land and decide to keep. I drop turn 1 welder and he actually passes on turn 1. I drop turn 2 painter on blue to turn on FoW and any card plus flusterstorm for permission. He draws a few turns and does nothing. I eventually eot notion thief with FoW and flusterstorm still in hand and just beat him down 5 points a turn until he is dead.
    Game 3 I again donít see leyline but have combo and FoW in hand so I keep. I end up countering a couple things early and start to assemble combo quickly. He really isnít doing anything. I try to combo out once and he bounces my painter in response. I try again the second time, this time with blast back up and he has nothing. Win!

    Top 4 against Grixis Delver (0-2)
    This match was horrible. I basically had a bunch of 3 and 4 drops in my hand and get wasted out of the game before doing anything game 1. Game 2 I had dual lands and blood moon in hand and some permission. My plan was to lock him out. So, turn 1 I play a land and pass. He fetches a dual and attempts to play a deathrite but considering my plan I force it. Turn to a play another land and pass. His turn 2 he plays ANOTHER deathrite and wastes one my lands. From here he wastes cantrips and wastes me some more and plays some threats. I never get to 3 mana and just die. I think if I would have had fetches into basics vs my duals I would have gotten there, but what do you do.

    So again, my losses basically were to lack of mana. I didnít have trouble with color screw but I just didnít get to enough lands. I think I would try to add a couple more cheap cantrips to even that out. I think the first thing to go would be the K.command. Itís a powerful card but probably not necessary at the expense of finding the combo or the resources to play the combo. I am actually considering trying a Search of Azcanta main as it interacts well with welder and eventually just starts drawing me cards in the mid and late game. . It might just be a little slow and would obviously have to come out when Iím on the blood moon plan. Itís also interesting to me that opponents try to attack my graveyard as much as they do. People are going as far as bringing in Leylines against me which I guess turns off welder but doesnít do much beyond that. Otherwise I would probably just try to fit 2 copies of ponder in there to even out my draws.
    The sideboard seemed pretty good and leyline/Helm is the only thing that I can think of against the big eldrazi decks. I donít know about Sudden Demise and Toxic Deluge. I might replace one of them with the k.command but I also like having mass removal. I would also like to have some sort of canonist effect as well that is an artifact but not white. Iíll have to look at my options. Again, any ideas or input would certainly be welcome.
    HmmmÖ. This got kinda long. Sorry.
    Any new upgrade?

  11. #671

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I've been thinking it's possible the 4 missing cards were Tormods crypt and 3 blasts the whole time with 4 card missing from the SB.

    I've been playing with Tezz and bridge maindeck and been great. Moving to SB to bring in those 4.

    Played 4 ratchet bombs in the 75 with some success. Pulling 2 for Perilous Voyage SB.

    Mono U is much less all in and the awkward tempo is difficult for me as a very aggressive player. Not used to having to counterspell and combo at same time.

  12. #672
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    Any new upgrade?
    Yeah, I've made a few different changes. First, like I had mentioned, I wanted more draw/cantrips so I ended up cutting the k.command, a Daretti and an opal for 2 ponder and a search for azcanta. I really liked the changes as I evened out my draws more and lowered my curve. Daretti is very strong, as is k.command, but at 3 cc mixed colors they were occasionally stranded in my hand. I also increased the island count. The next issue I discovered is that the leyline/helm combo was hard to hit. So I've liked the black leylines in the board but was counting on either naturally drawing into the 1 helm to combo with or having welder + intuition (although I did have 1 game where I won by intuitioning for 2 welder and the helm and was able to drop welder and weld in helm next turn). I realized that that wasn't a great way to hit the combo and decided to try a transmute artifact. I've really liked them so far. I decided to cut the ponders and try 2 transmutes and added the third strix back into the deck. I was netting way more cards by swapping strixes from the board with welders than what I was getting from ponder. Search for Azcanta has also been really good as it often adds a land on a critical turn and combos well with welder. Having said that, I could also see cutting that and another card (an intuition?) for the ponders again. With transmute, I also switched e.e to ratchet bomb. So, the current list I am on is this:



    // Lands
    1 [MR] Great Furnace
    2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    2 [UNH] Island
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    2 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [UNH] Swamp
    1 [B] Underground Sea
    2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
    1 [B] Badlands
    3 [KTK] Polluted Delta
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [UNH] Mountain

    // Creatures
    4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
    4 [UL] Goblin Welder
    3 [C16] Baleful Strix

    // Spells
    4 [TE] Grindstone
    3 [IA] Pyroblast
    2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
    1 [SOM] Mox Opal
    1 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 [C15] Brainstorm
    2 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    1 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    1 [TE] Intuition
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb
    1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
    2 [AQ] Transmute Artifact
    1 Search for Azcanta

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [CH] Blood Moon
    SB: 1 [EMA] Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 [DGM] Notion Thief
    SB: 1 [C13] Sudden Demise
    SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
    SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience

    The foundry/sword combo is also interesting but not sure how I would fit it in. It seems good against burn due to the life gain but if I'm digging for a combo I probably need to concentrate on one or the other. Will try to test it some though.

  13. #673

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by drude1 View Post
    Yeah, I've made a few different changes. First, like I had mentioned, I wanted more draw/cantrips so I ended up cutting the k.command, a Daretti and an opal for 2 ponder and a search for azcanta. I really liked the changes as I evened out my draws more and lowered my curve. Daretti is very strong, as is k.command, but at 3 cc mixed colors they were occasionally stranded in my hand. I also increased the island count. The next issue I discovered is that the leyline/helm combo was hard to hit. So I've liked the black leylines in the board but was counting on either naturally drawing into the 1 helm to combo with or having welder + intuition (although I did have 1 game where I won by intuitioning for 2 welder and the helm and was able to drop welder and weld in helm next turn). I realized that that wasn't a great way to hit the combo and decided to try a transmute artifact. I've really liked them so far. I decided to cut the ponders and try 2 transmutes and added the third strix back into the deck. I was netting way more cards by swapping strixes from the board with welders than what I was getting from ponder. Search for Azcanta has also been really good as it often adds a land on a critical turn and combos well with welder. Having said that, I could also see cutting that and another card (an intuition?) for the ponders again. With transmute, I also switched e.e to ratchet bomb. So, the current list I am on is this:



    // Lands
    1 [MR] Great Furnace
    2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    2 [UNH] Island
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    2 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [UNH] Swamp
    1 [B] Underground Sea
    2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
    1 [B] Badlands
    3 [KTK] Polluted Delta
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [UNH] Mountain

    // Creatures
    4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
    4 [UL] Goblin Welder
    3 [C16] Baleful Strix

    // Spells
    4 [TE] Grindstone
    3 [IA] Pyroblast
    2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
    1 [SOM] Mox Opal
    1 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 [C15] Brainstorm
    2 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    1 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    1 [TE] Intuition
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb
    1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
    2 [AQ] Transmute Artifact
    1 Search for Azcanta

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [CH] Blood Moon
    SB: 1 [EMA] Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 [DGM] Notion Thief
    SB: 1 [C13] Sudden Demise
    SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
    SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience

    The foundry/sword combo is also interesting but not sure how I would fit it in. It seems good against burn due to the life gain but if I'm digging for a combo I probably need to concentrate on one or the other. Will try to test it some though.
    do you think that are necesary toxic deluge and sudden demise?

  14. #674

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by drude1 View Post
    The foundry/sword combo is also interesting but not sure how I would fit it in. It seems good against burn due to the life gain but if I'm digging for a combo I probably need to concentrate on one or the other. Will try to test it some though.
    I'm trying out a 1/1 split in UR (just splashing with 3 opals) as my side plan in game 1 and it's been pretty medium. I don't know if it's better or worse than just playing wurmcoil or turning into UR superfriends postboard but it's fun to have 2/3 Goblin Welders. I feel like if you want to incorporate more of it you actual need to alter the manabase of the deck heavily.

    How have the search for azcantas been?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  15. #675

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    I'm trying out a 1/1 split in UR (just splashing with 3 opals) as my side plan in game 1 and it's been pretty medium. I don't know if it's better or worse than just playing wurmcoil or turning into UR superfriends postboard but it's fun to have 2/3 Goblin Welders. I feel like if you want to incorporate more of it you actual need to alter the manabase of the deck heavily.

    How have the search for azcantas been?
    Can you share your list?

  16. #676

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    Can you share your list?
    I'm not convinced on some of the numbers yet so the 1 offs are still up in the air. Other than that I think the list is pretty solid, as silly as it sounds I was finding 4 ponders to just be too much. You already have so many ways to dig for your pieces that it's really not needed. If I was going to go to a tournament tomorrow I think I would go -Thopter/Sword +1 Ponder/+1 Dack Fayden or Spellskite.

    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Grindstone
    4 Pyroblast
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Transmute Artifact
    3 Intuition
    2 Island
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Mox Opal
    4 Force of Will
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Seat of the Synod
    1 Great Furnace
    1 City of Traitors
    1 Mountain
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 Dack Fayden
    1 Thopter Foundry
    1 Sword of the Meek

    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Lightning Bolt
    2 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  17. #677

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by drude1 View Post
    Yeah, I've made a few different changes. First, like I had mentioned, I wanted more draw/cantrips so I ended up cutting the k.command, a Daretti and an opal for 2 ponder and a search for azcanta. I really liked the changes as I evened out my draws more and lowered my curve. Daretti is very strong, as is k.command, but at 3 cc mixed colors they were occasionally stranded in my hand. I also increased the island count. The next issue I discovered is that the leyline/helm combo was hard to hit. So I've liked the black leylines in the board but was counting on either naturally drawing into the 1 helm to combo with or having welder + intuition (although I did have 1 game where I won by intuitioning for 2 welder and the helm and was able to drop welder and weld in helm next turn). I realized that that wasn't a great way to hit the combo and decided to try a transmute artifact. I've really liked them so far. I decided to cut the ponders and try 2 transmutes and added the third strix back into the deck. I was netting way more cards by swapping strixes from the board with welders than what I was getting from ponder. Search for Azcanta has also been really good as it often adds a land on a critical turn and combos well with welder. Having said that, I could also see cutting that and another card (an intuition?) for the ponders again. With transmute, I also switched e.e to ratchet bomb. So, the current list I am on is this:



    // Lands
    1 [MR] Great Furnace
    2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    2 [UNH] Island
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    2 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [UNH] Swamp
    1 [B] Underground Sea
    2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
    1 [B] Badlands
    3 [KTK] Polluted Delta
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [UNH] Mountain

    // Creatures
    4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
    4 [UL] Goblin Welder
    3 [C16] Baleful Strix

    // Spells
    4 [TE] Grindstone
    3 [IA] Pyroblast
    2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
    1 [SOM] Mox Opal
    1 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 [C15] Brainstorm
    2 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    1 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    1 [TE] Intuition
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb
    1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
    2 [AQ] Transmute Artifact
    1 Search for Azcanta

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [CH] Blood Moon
    SB: 1 [EMA] Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 [DGM] Notion Thief
    SB: 1 [C13] Sudden Demise
    SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
    SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience

    The foundry/sword combo is also interesting but not sure how I would fit it in. It seems good against burn due to the life gain but if I'm digging for a combo I probably need to concentrate on one or the other. Will try to test it some though.
    Which are in your opinion the best and the worst pairings?
    can you share your sideboarding plan?
    regards

  18. #678

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    Which are in your opinion the best and the worst pairings?
    can you share your sideboarding plan?
    regards
    I can't answer the 2nd question but for the first. The worst matchups are by in large any deck that plays the shuffling Eldrazi and decks that play a massive amount of removal with the exception of 4c Control, you can usually go under 4c game 1 and then just overwhelm them with threats game 2. Other than that the tempo matchups can be a little shaky but you can often times grind them out of removal/counterspells.

    I can't speak for the grixis versions but in general I think that you are favored in the combo matchups and against some of the slower control decks. I think that the best matchups are Lands, Eldrazi and other nonblue decks since you can basically get away with whatever the hell that you want.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  19. #679

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    I can't answer the 2nd question but for the first. The worst matchups are by in large any deck that plays the shuffling Eldrazi and decks that play a massive amount of removal with the exception of 4c Control, you can usually go under 4c game 1 and then just overwhelm them with threats game 2. Other than that the tempo matchups can be a little shaky but you can often times grind them out of removal/counterspells.

    I can't speak for the grixis versions but in general I think that you are favored in the combo matchups and against some of the slower control decks. I think that the best matchups are Lands, Eldrazi and other nonblue decks since you can basically get away with whatever the hell that you want.
    What do you think about delver decks?

  20. #680

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    What do you think about delver decks?
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    I can't answer the 2nd question but for the first. The worst matchups are by in large any deck that plays the shuffling Eldrazi and decks that play a massive amount of removal with the exception of 4c Control, you can usually go under 4c game 1 and then just overwhelm them with threats game 2. Other than that the tempo matchups can be a little shaky but you can often times grind them out of removal/counterspells.

    I can't speak for the grixis versions but in general I think that you are favored in the combo matchups and against some of the slower control decks. I think that the best matchups are Lands, Eldrazi and other nonblue decks since you can basically get away with whatever the hell that you want.
    I've had mixed results but that is what happens when you play an A+B combo deck against delver. I think that RUG is the most favorable as they only have 2 ways of disrupting you (removal + counterspells). As for Grixis and BUG, they're harder but winnable. The key is just playing around wasteland and grinding through their disruption. These are the matchups where having a backup plan of either turbo wurmcoil, tezz, etc really shine. If you find an opportunity to go under these decks before they get setup, that's also a reasonable way to win.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

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