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Thread: [Deck] Painter-Stone

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    [Deck] Painter-Stone

    PRIMER U/R Painter

    I. Overview/Author Notes
    I.a Design Evolution
    I.b Side History
    II. Strategy/Variants
    II.a How does the main combo work?
    II.b Caleb Durward Variant
    II.c Noham Maubert Variant
    III. The Deck (Caleb Durward Variant)
    III.a Combo
    III.b Tutors/Draw
    III.c Accelerants
    III.d Protection
    III.e Lands
    III.f Variant Decklists
    III.g Other notes and Observations
    IV. Meta Choice Slots
    V. Side Board Options
    VI. Additional Notes and Rules (Common Judge Questions for this deck)
    VII. Play Notes
    VIII. VS Decks
    VIII.a AGGRO
    Merfolk
    Goblins
    Zoo
    Affinity
    Dredge
    Rock/Junk
    VIII.b CONTROL
    Counter Balance
    Landstill
    MUD/Forgemaster
    Burn/RDW/Angry Red
    Death and Taxes (Green and White Variants)
    VIII.c COMBO
    Enchantress
    Sneak Attack/Show Tell
    Doomsday
    Charbelcher
    ANT/TES
    Cephalid Breakfast
    Aluren
    VIII.d UNIQUE
    Maverick
    Elves (combo/Aggro)
    Reanimator
    Team America
    NO Bant or Bant Aggro
    Post Eldrazi Ramp
    VIV. Situational Analysis (Requires a Judge for clarification on these)
    XX. Reading Materials/ References



    Acknowledgements:
    Caleb Durward -- Thanks for designing this deck and wonderful articles.
    PanderAlexander -- Alexander Kwan -- Thank you for your inputs and posts.
    Ivanpei -- Thank you for your inputs.
    Sloshthedark-- Thanks for the inputs.


    Eagles Nest -- Legacy with you guys continues to be a blast. I believe our meta is the most diverse, containing nearly every Legacy Deck available. Because of this I was able to taste every possible combination/hybrid/strategy in legacy.

    Chardso-- Thanks for lending me the cards initially bro. Could not have made this without ya.


    I would like to make it clear that I am in no way responsible for the creation of current U/R Painter Servant deck. I am just a Legacy analyst and Deck Theorist.



    I. Overview/Author Notes


    The Painter’s Servant and Grindstone combination has been around for a very long time. It is probably one of the few combos’ that is still being utilized in Vintage environments today.

    However in the current legacy environment there are successful deck variants that try to utilize this combo using various colour shells such as Mono W or R there are others that utilize a U/R/W or W/B or U/R shell with some on and off success.

    In the past year and a half I have been reading, observing, testing and researching various Painter Grindstone decks that could optimally challenge most of the legacy Meta. My own personal designs have lead me to mono U, R, U and even combination designs such as U/R, W/R painter variants.


    I.a Design Evolution

    The Painter/Grindstone combination itself is far from perfect. Powerful as it might be, it is susceptible to multiple variables. Which lead to 4 major lines of design:

    1.) Control/Stall -- Designs that were control in nature and would effectively control the board or protect one’s self from most variables until the combo pieces were assembled.
    2.) Speed –Designs that act as tool boxes to find the major pieces as fast as possible to execute the combo finish.
    3.) Synergy -- Built/Designed to harness the synergy of the cards to one another. What could be normally a useless/ordinary card becomes an extremely powerful piece of the solution.
    4.) Substitution/Alternate – Built to utilize painter/grindstone as one of the major kill conditions but not the only kill condition.

    Deck design types that have shown good standings in legacy tournaments that utilize this combo are as follows:

    Mighty Quinn
    (Mono W variant, utilizing humility, isochron sceptre and enlightened tutor to stall and assemble combo)

    o Notable for its ability to stall and answer creature based threats and swarms. It is Mid-range type deck that improves its board position over time by utilizing W’s multitude of protection. Alternate kill condition would utilize token generators that will swarm opponents.
    o http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=198753

    Imperial Recruiter
    (Mono R variant, utilizing imperial recruiter and punishes multi coloured decks)

    o Notable for its ability to “punish” decks utilizing more than 1 colour and “recruiting” creature tool box that allow it to effectively assemble the combo or provide a beat down of the opponent if all else fails.
    o http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=120182

    Bomber Man
    (Ken Adams Variant, utilizing Imperial recruiter + Auriok Salvagers as a alt win con)

    o Notable for its “flexibility” on either finishing the opponent with its Bomber man Route or Grindstone.
    o http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=667121

    I.b Side History

    Historically the first successful* U/R Painter Grindstone variant was in fact piloted and designed by Noham Maubert who placed Top 16 in the Bazaar of Moxen 4 series in Europe. However the more popular and faster variant today is credited to Caleb Durward.

    I would like to make it clear that I am in no way responsible for the creation of current U/R Painter Servant deck. I am just a Deck Theorist and Analyst.

    The recognition for the currently most successful build and design belongs to Mr. Caleb Durward. Success in my opinion is gauged if the deck reaches top 16 in a tournament that has more than 100+ players.


    II. Strategy and Variants

    The main strategy of Painter Grindstone decks is to utilize the synergy of Painter’s Servant and Grindstone. Its main win condition is to mill your opponent by assembling the Painter/Grindstone combination as quickly as possible.

    How does the Main combo work?
    1.) With Painter’s Servant in play. All cards are of the colour of your choice even those not in play.
    2.) Grindstone’s ability states that if the 2 cards milled are of the same colour, you repeat this process.
    3.) As a result the opponent’s (and your self’s) entire library/hand/graveyard is now the colour you choose (in addition to their original colour(s)). By activating grindstone’s ability you mill the entire library immediately.

    To enable this strategy there have been a multitude of deck variants that aim to either protect, accelerate, and/or optimize the synergy of cards that will complete the combo and deal the finishing blow.

    Caleb Durward’s Deck U/R Variant Synergy Points
    Deck list: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=798337
    1.) Utilization of Goblin Welder, Intuition and artifact lands. By casting Intuition you will be able to find your key combo pieces almost immediately. While with the Goblin welder in play you can effectively exchange one artifact in play for an artifact in the graveyard. Synergizes with the artifact lands that allow you to exchange them for key cards that have been placed into the graveyard.
    2.) Painter’s Servant and Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast combination. Upon naming blue as the color of choice. All of your opponent’s cards are blue (so is yours), and because of that your REB and Pyro’s are more effective as a 1 mana vindicate or counterspell. (while allowing you to pitch any card to FOW)
    3.) Use of Sol lands, Mox Opal, LED. The key strategy of this deck is to be able to utilize the combo as quickly as possible. Artifact lands + other artifacts in the deck can easily yield metalcraft while the LED acts as a accelerant trigger for you to pull the combo off faster. Synergizes well with the synergies in 1.)
    4.) Greater focus on combo activation than protection
    5.) Unique side board switch that utilizes a Show and Tell- Emrakul package.

    Noham Maubert Deck Variant Synergy
    Deck list: http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/magic...r-of-moxen.php (search for UR Painters)
    1.) Control variant that has more counter spells and board control (EE’s and more Main deck REB & Pyro blasts)
    2.) Utilizes the Sensei top and Counter Balance soft lock
    3.) Greater focus on protection and control than combo activation
    4.) Slower but more control type variant.


    III. The Deck: U/R Painter’s Servant

    Aka: The Grind Show, WeldServant, PaintGrindstone, Painter, Painted Stone, PG-123*, Show Stone*
    *I have done research on this deck for several months and it does have various names that do have some sense of logic behind them. PG-123 (Painter Grindstone kill in T1, T2, T3), Show stone (due to the show and tell side board).

    The U/R variant we will be discussing is the U/R Variant by Caleb Durward:

    III.a Combo
    Painter’s Servant
    • The main utility of the deck with this you can grind your opponent to oblivion.
    • Turn Red elemental/pyro blasts into one mana vindicates.
    • It also allows you to pitch lands or excess cards to Force of Will when needed.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 4


    Grindstone
    • It not only provides you a win condition, but you can mill yourself for key cards and weld them in with the Goblin Welder.
    • You can also mill away useless cards for better ones, in synergy with brainstorm and/or sensei top.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 4

    III.b Tutors/Draw
    Sensei’s Divining Top
    • Improves your draws and help search for key cards
    • Synergizes well with grindstone to help grind away useless or key cards to be welded in.
    • Synergizes with goblin welder as a draw engine
    • Recommended Deck Count: 4


    Brainstorm
    • There is very little I can say about this card. It is amazing. Helps dig and hide cards.
    • Always remember that you can cast brainstorm and in response sacrifice the LED to allow you to keep the draw.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 4


    Intuition
    • This card allows you to search for every key piece of the combo and use the Goblin Welder to weld them.
    • You may sacrifice LED in response to casting this (if your short on mana) to get the card you need and still have floating mana.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 4

    Trinket Mage
    • Finds your combo piece and acts as a bear for beat down situations.
    • Recommend Deck Count: 1-2

    III.c Accelerants
    Mox Opal
    • Synergizes well with the deck especially its composition of Artifact lands and others.
    • Achieving Metal Craft is as easy as Turn 1 or Turn 2.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 2-3
    Lions Eye Diamond
    • Gives you a black lotus like ability to blast away your opponent as quickly as Turn 1 with a Nuts hand.
    • Recommended Deck count: 2-3

    III.d Protection
    Force of Will
    • There are many articles online that suggest that nobody plays legacy without this card. Honestly? There probably right.
    • Protects the combo and helps you delay opponents until you find the right pieces.
    • Recommended Deck count: 4


    Red/Pyro Blasts
    • Who doesn’t want a 1 mana vindicate? Synergies extremely well with Painter’s Servant.
    • Helps fight against blue decks.
    • Usually broken into Red Elemental and Pyroblast to fight against Meddling mage or card that will eliminate all copies of that card from you deck.
    • Recommended Deck count: 1 of each

    Goblin Welder
    • If a welder is in play you have a high % chance of winning (obviously keep it alive).
    • You can weld key pieces into play even from your graveyard. Your counters are saved for more critical scenarios.
    • They can weld in not only your stuff but it can also be used to weld exchange opponents artifacts.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 3-4

    III.e Lands
    Steam vents/Volcanic Island
    • Recommended Deck Count: 3-4

    Seat of Synod/Great Furnace
    • Artifact lands to get metalcraft going and synergizes well with the welder.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 4 Seat & 3Furnace

    City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb
    • Sol lands that will give you the boost you need to win the game or power cast something.
    • These lands will give you the “push” you need to win as early as T1 to T3.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 5-6 (ratio of 3:3 or 3:2 or 4:1 depending on player choice)


    Island/Mountain
    • On a heavy wasteland environment you might want to Up count the basic lands of your deck. However in most cases a single island would suffice due to the artifact mana.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 1-2 (A single island and mountain, most cases just 1 island would be fine)

    Island Fetch lands:
    • Completely up to the player. Some use various fetchlands to confuse the opponent on the type of deck he/she is playing. Another is to avoid needle/revoker effects on a particular fetchland.
    • Recommended Deck Count: 4-6 (Island fetching types)

    III.f U/R Deck Build Variants Decklists
    Caleb Durward (Original Designer of the Deck and piloted the deck in multiple Starcity Events):

    Alex Kwan (1st Place @ Starcity Legacy Los Angeles 2011):

    John Cuvelier (Top 4 @ Starcity Legacy Orlando 2011):
    Variant: [url]http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38342/url]

    Wilson Hunter (Top 8 @ GP Providence Legacy 2011):
    Variant: [url]http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/14826/url]


    III.g Other build notes & observations:
    • Some builds reduce LED count to 1, to add Mental Missteps, Transmute artifact, and/or GY hate (singleton)
    • Some builds mix Mox opal and Lotus petals 2:1, 1:2, 2:2
    • Some builds remove Trinket mages, RedE/Pyro and a Dual in lieu of a more Robots build (2wurmcoil + 1 myr battle sphere + 2 Splinter Twin)
    • Some builds have SB conversions that change or alter the deck's win conditions eg. ShowTell/Emrakul or Bomberman or Splintertwin/pester/exarch or Transmute robots
    • Some main deck Mind-Break Trap and reduce FOW and Trinket Mage count.
    • Some main deck 1-2 Transmute artifacts (using a thopter-sword/ensnaring/robot build) variant


    IV. Meta Choice Slots

    You may have anywhere from 2-8 card spaces left in your deck, depending on what you choose to reduce from the Maindeck. Ultimately the additions and/or replacements of cards are choices made by the player to better suite their local game, Meta environment or play style.

    As a note of caution usually a minimum of 3 pcs of a particular card should be placed to maximize Intuition. You never want to sideboard in 2pcs Show and Tells and 2pcs Emrakuls (unless you are fairly confident you can jedi mind trick your opponent into giving you the card you need.)

    Trinket Mage
    • Helps find the combo piece or SB pieces
    • Provides a nice Bear to hold off the opponent until you get what you need.


    Misdirection/Divert/RedElemental/Pyroblast
    • Adds another unique counter to your arsenal
    • Protects you from a Thoughtsize or hymn late game or early (depending on how you wish to use it)
    • Nothing more priceless than seeing your opponent’s face when you misdirect a Thoughsize/swords/vindicate in a tight/critical game.


    Ponder/Preordain
    • Adding more draw effects to dig into the combo pieces faster.

    Mental Misstep
    • Adds to your ability to protect your main combo via "free" counters, and pitchable to FOW.
    • Currently this card is now a MB staple with a count ranging from 3-4


    Spell Pierce/Daze/ Spell Snare
    • Adds more counter protection and control to your game.
    • Choose according to your play style and meta


    Tormod’s Crypt/Nihil Spell bomb
    • Usually added in to a Emrakul or Dredge heavy environment. Nothing worse than assembling your combo turn 1 only to find out he’s a sneak attack player.

    Gamble/Muddle the Mixture
    • There will be meta’s that have Leylines of Sanctity maindeck (dunno why but it has happened) effects and prevent you from utilizing your Intuitions.
    • A poor replacement would be Gamble but it still gets the job done sometimes..(if you’re lucky...)
    • Another replacement is Muddle the Mixture. Adds a nice search effect if you think you don’t have enough + Counters stuff too.
    • For those who cannot afford Intuitions. These are cheaper alternatives but they do take longer.


    Transmute Artifact
    • Adds a unique variation to your deck. By utilizing existing/excess artifacts and can effectively design a "tool kit" around this card.
    • Note the oracle text of this card (people will ask this ALOT -- Wilson Hunter)


    Wurmcoil Engines/Myr Battle sphere/Inkwell Leviathan
    • Adds a unique ground game to your deck. You can disguise your deck as a Forgemaster deck when needed.

    Counter Balance
    • Counter Balance and divining top provides a “soft lock” combo that will enable you to dodge removals if needed.
    • Counter Balance is an interesting choice as it wonders against storm type decks.


    Grim Monolith
    • There are those who try to shy away from LED’s due to their limitations/drawbacks the option of Grim Monoliths are a suitable substitute for the budget weary.
    • Do not think that the monoliths are only for budget conscious people, combined with Transmute artifact and the right "tool kit" can essentially make your deck very flexible against a multitude of opponents.


    Ensnaring Bridge/Meekstone
    • If you are having alot of trouble against creatures this might be a suitable card of choice.

    Lotus Petals
    • There are those who try to shy away from too many Moxs or LED’s due to their limitations/drawbacks the option of Lotus petals are also available for the budget weary.

    V. Sideboard Choices

    Please note that you are not limited to just these choices. There are many other sideboard options available to you. The below listed SB Options are merely suggestions and variants that were tested and used in various games.

    Alternate win condition [Variant 1: E.A.T-SH.A.T] Show and Tell + Emrakul Aeons of Thorn
    • Works very well against a heavy aggro meta.

    Alternate win condition [Variant 2: Robotech] Pestermite/Wurm Coil Engine/Myr Battle Sphere/Sundering Titan + Splinter twin or Transmute artifact
    • Transmute artifact + Grim Monolith variants provide U/R users with interesting tech that they can utilize in various situations. Balanced finish but not an Ultimate finish. (clarification: Ultimate finish = opponent dead, Balanced finish = opponents are in a disadvantage and can eventually lead to their deaths)

    Alternate win condition [Variant 3: Bomberman] Auriok Salvagers + Pyrite spell bomb + LED = infinite damage + draw
    • The deck itself has the components needed to create this "bomberman" combo. It is a very powerful combo in the right meta environment and will finish your opponents instantly if left unchecked.

    Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon
    • Punishes your rich multicoloured opponents and will make all your lands produce only R. Or use Magus to beat down your opponent if all else fails.
    • Fortunately your combo needs colorless mana to work.


    Echoing Truth
    • Bounce effects are fun. Especially if you need to save one of your creatures or bounce alot of the same 1/1’s

    Tormod’s Crypt/Nihil Spellbomb
    • Even when survival leaving the environment. Reanimator type decks are starting to emerge. Always place 2-1 ratio to get around pithing needle/revoker when needed.
    • Emrakul.... good on youre side. Bad if not.


    Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
    • The more vindicates and counters the better.

    Pithing Needle/Revoker
    • Pesky Pridemage? Survival coming back? Caldebra? This is one way of putting a wrench into their gears.

    Washout
    • Imagine a situation where you name one color. You wash out. Who do you think will recover fast enough on the same turn.
    o Tomb/traitor, Painter, Mox, LED, Grindstone.....


    Ensnaring Bridge/Meekstone
    • If things start to get beefy. It might be good to have one of these guys out when you need a little time.

    Hurklys Recall/Shattering spree/Ancient Grudge
    • Too many artifacts? Well this can help give you a turn to breathe.

    MindBreak Trap
    • Elves, Affinity, TES/ANT/Storm, Charbelcher


    Llawan, Cephalid Empress
    • Makes any zoo or aggo deck want to cry. Amazing synergy with the Painter.

    Misdirection/divert
    • I think this was covered already, nuff said.

    Spell Skites
    • Makes burn and removal target your guy! Blocks the Pridemage and other weenies with is 0/4 man-beef body :D


    VI. Additional Notes/Rules: (Judges please correct me if I am wrong)
    • Painter’s Servant effect still works with Humility in play.
    • Sacrificing LED in response to a draw effect. Allowing you to draw the card and have floating mana.
    • Using Sensei’s draw card ability and then welding another artifact into play will net you a card (as the top will allow you to draw and then look for its second effect which is place itself into the top of your library, but since its no longer there that effect is ignored)
    • You are unable to use Intuition when there is a card that Prevents you from targeting the player.
    • LED can be sacrificed during a split second spell as long as the controller has priority
    • LED sacrifice cannot be stopped by stifle or pithing needle (as it is a mana ability)
    • Transmute artifact is unique as the sacrifice is only applicable if the spell resolves. Thus if the spell is countered there is no need to sacrfice the artifact in question.


    VII. Play notes

    I have listed several decks here and play strategies that you can employ. Generally the basic strategies are as follows:
    • Imagine this deck like a Golden Gun. One bullet is all you to end the game. But if you miss be prepared to get shot at.
    • Try to avoid a wasteland. You want to get to your critical turn 2 and 3 to finish the game. Fetch the basic if needed.
    • Remember the rule of 3. Intuition is only useful if you have 3 of the same card. You really don’t want to find yourself needing an Echoing truth only to find 2 pcs.
    • The use of the LED will leave you vulnerable. Unless you have no choice you might want to hold off using it unless in response to your opponent’s attempt to kill the painter.
    • Remember card interactions and check if you need to grind yourself to find the right card.
    • It is tempting to “GOD Hand” your opponent and try to go all in on T1 or T2. Be mindful of what could be in your opponent’s deck before you go all in.
    • Look at your Meta and revise your MD accordingly.
    • There is no 100% win. There will be times your opponent has a nut draw or draws the right answers for you. Do not despair. Smile, as you will also have times like that.
    Please understand that there is no 100% win. There will be times your opponents just has everything going for them and you could not win. There will be times you will just draw the right cards and dominate. There will be variable win conditions as this is because it all depends on the experience and skill of the player.


    VIII VS DECKS

    NOTES
    Excellent: 65% or greater win percentages
    Good: 51-64%
    Variable: 50/50 toss up (again depends on skill and experience)
    Requires SB: Less than 49% These are match ups that are just plain BAD and sometimes hard to win at all.

    VIII.a AGGRO Types

    Merfolk
    • Not a difficult match up. Just remember DAZE.
    • Prepare for a counter war and leave mana open.
    • SB: Plug in your Pyro and Red E blasts and you’ll be fine.
    • Excellent win %


    Goblins
    • It is actually more difficult than it seems. They will play fast, which means you have to play a faster hand.
    • Difficult with their ability to deny our manabase (waste/rashidan port)
    • Mid-Long game benefits goblins. *Cant counter Gempalms.
    • SB: Show and Emrakul mode.
    • Good win %


    Zoo
    • Alot of creature removal and fast/efficient creatures. Too many to handle and too many threats on your combo pieces (gets even worse post sb for them)
    • You need to end this quickly or else you will find yourself in a jam.
    • SB: Show and Emrakul mode.
    • Variable win %

    Affinity
    • Revoker will get annoying.
    • Mull Agressively. You will need a hand that kills by T3-T4 or your dead.
    • SB: Show and Emrakul mode (but they can still overwhelm you)
    • Good win %


    Dredge
    • Knowing what to counter is critical. You want to slow them down as much as you can so you can combo before them.
    • You want to finish this game quickly look for a T3 or 4 win.
    • Post SB: Nihil + tormod will help alot
    • Excellent win %


    Rock/Junk
    • Possibly the most difficult aggro match up. Due to hand disruption and creature kill abilities.
    • SB will not help much as most designs incorporate a Mainboard karakas.
    • Play smart know what to bait. If you get out a welder and let it stick you should have no problems.
    • Variable win %
    VIII.b CONTROL

    Counter Balance
    • This deck was designed originally to be faster than CB
    • Play smart and prepare for a counter war
    • SB: REB, PYRO, EMRAKUL/Show mode
    • Excellent Win %


    Landstill
    • Do not think this will be a problem. Unless they have Blessings MB.
    • Prepare to beat down your opponent or weld in your win conditions.
    • Prepare to have your manabase attacked.
    • Excellent Win %


    MUD/Forgemaster
    • No experience on this deck archetype.
    • From a theoretical stand point it is very winnable and probably will not be difficult.
    • Excellent Win %


    Burn/RDW/Aggo Red
    • They are very fast. You will need to protect and run your combo quickly.
    • Protection before activation will probably be a must.
    • Price of progress will leave you in the redzone if the game progresses
    • Variable win %


    Death and Taxes (white and Green variants)
    • If you let this deck reach mid game or board control there is no way for you to win.
    • Quickly win and do it with protection.
    • Good win %
    VIII.c COMBO
    Combo decks fighting combo decks is a toss-up. It is like comparing two people shooting uzi’s at each other. Someone is gonna get shot, just depends if it’s a head shot of a flesh wound.

    Enchantress
    • Win quickly and use REB/Pyro on the right enchantments that will give you the window to victory.
    • Emrakul variants MD makes our lives very difficult. (low 20% win probability)
    • Non Emrakul variants (high 60%)
    • Requires SB


    Sneak Attack/Show Tell
    • It will seem unwinnable. But if counter the right spells and play tight you can go old fashioned weenie beat down.
    • Post SB you’ll be fine with the GY hate and extra Red blasts.
    • Force for Sneak and RedE/Pyro for Show and tell
    • Keep mana open for Spell Pierce and Daze.
    • Requires SB


    Doomsday
    • Same as the Sneak Attack/Show Tell
    • Counter the ones the count.
    • SB: GY hate
    • Requires SB


    Hightide
    • I think this comes down to who can get going first.
    • Counter wars will be critical once your opponent reaches 4 islands.
    • SB: Pithing, Reb/Pyro, Show and Tell/Emrakul package
    • Variable win %


    Charbelcher
    • Its all about the nut draw.
    • Variable win %


    ANT/TES
    http://www.blip.tv/file/4954351?utm_...layer_embedded
    • Variable win % (but maybe less due to speed battle)


    Cephalid Breakfast
    • Again its all about who can get started faster.
    • Variable win %


    Aluren
    • Never had the pleasure of going against one of these decks.
    • In theory we can win easily
    • Good win %
    VIII.c UNIQUE

    Maverick
    • Equipment based deck that is reliant on various swords for victory.
    • If its Turn 6 and you haven’t won. You’re in trouble.
    • Variable win %


    Elves
    • Combo
    o Variable win % due to emrakul package
    • Aggro
    o Excellent win %
    • Depends on the version. If it’s the Emrakul version you’ll have a rough time without GY hate.


    Reanimator
    • Good win %
    • SB will boost it to Excellent win %


    Team America
    • Counters, Fire and Ice, and Tharmo puts you in a dicey situation.
    • Add more REB’s and Pyro to protect your pieces and take out the threats.
    • It’s a little of both aggro and control making it very difficult on our lives.
    • Variable win %


    NO Bant or Bant Aggro
    • Watch out for this deck, it is faster than it seems.
    • Protect your combo and try to win early.
    • Natural Order is scary but try to concentrate on getting your pieces together.
    • You’ll be on a clock, hope your draws get you what you need in time.
    • Variable win %


    Post Eldrazi Ramp
    • Not very winnable, but with GY hate your chances of winning nearly double.
    • SB: Pithing takes care of the candle stick, REB blows up posts, while GY hate removes the Eldrazi’s
    • Requires SB


    Note: I will post SB + and – once I done more research on the various opponents. If you guys are wondering if I tested against all these decks with competent people. My answer is NO. I cannot be the judge if an individual is competent in using a deck or not. However I did simulations and watched videos/games of people who have gone against these decks above.

    VIV. Situational Analysis (Requires a Judge for clarification on these)

    1.) Welding in a pithing needle (naming Quasali Pridemage) in response to a Quasali Pridemage sacrifice?
    Q: Is the pridemage still able to sacrifice itself?

    The ability is already on the stack so nope. But one thing that has happened to me in tournaments is I'll cast pithing needle, my opponent asks me what I name and I say Quasali, he'll try to activate Quasali but I inform him he can't. Same situation with cabal therapy, opponent can't respond after asking you what you name.


    2.) It is currently my turn, I cast intuition for 3 Painter’s Servant.
    a. My opponent obviously picks Painter’s Servant and I place that in my hand.
    b. As I was about to cast Painter’s Servant, he casts Expirate on me removing Painter’s Servant.
    Q: Does the Painter in my hand get removed? Or do I still have priority to cast it. (Lets say it was done before B? Or After B)

    You're the active player, so you have priority. He can't just cast extirpate out of no where, you can cast your Painter first then he could respond to it with Extirpate but it will not stop your Painter from resolving.


    3.) I have metal craft. I play my Mox opal, tap it for mana, then I play another mox opal.
    Q: Can I still tap the newly entered mox opal for mana before destroying both opals due to legendary rules?

    Nope, legend rule, can't respond to it =\


    4.) I transmute my Muddle the Mixture and in response to that I use LED.
    Q: Do I still get the card I transmuted it for? Does this work?

    It is an activated ability so you can still respond with LED without passing priority.


    5.) Can I cast Intuition then sacrifice my LED in response?
    Q: Do I get the card I Intuition for?

    Yep, just like the Infernal Tutor/LED in TES, you can respond to your own spell but it is important to announce you are retaining priority.


    6.) Does humility affect Emrakul in the graveyard?
    Q: If yes then does that mean I get to shuffle?

    Nope, our answer to him is Tormod's.


    7.) I use my LED to activate my grindstone (My hand: Force of will + land), my opponent responds to my grindstone activation via stifle. Can I still counter that stifle?


    XX. Reference

    You may refer to Mr. Durward’s experience in testing the initial designs for the U/R build here
    http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...he-world-blue/

    Mr. Durward and Mr. George Blankenship experience in the tournament.
    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...nting-memphis/
    Whose success with the deck was eventually pushed beyond the top 8 by Alex Kwan

    See Starcity Games articles on Alex Kwan’s experiences at The Source.

    For those who are interested in the U/R Painter variant by Noham Maubert (search for UR Painters)
    http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/magic...r-of-moxen.php

    For those who wish to review play styles and matches of the winners
    http://scglive.blip.tv/?sort=custom;...=posts;page=16
    Search for Alex Kwan, Caleb Durward, and George Blankenship

    Reading Materials & To Watch
    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...mbo-in-legacy/
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ed_Stone.html/[/INDENT]
    Last edited by TheProfessor; 06-07-2011 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Additional variants + card additions (MM + Transmute artifact + alt wincon ver 3)

  2. #2
    3-point-shooter

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    Re: [PRIMER] U/R Painter

    Excellent primer, finally a home for this highly successful variant, good job Mr. Professor!

    I have very similar feels on your match-up analyses. Also, this thread is very help to learn how to combat Emrakul by assembling a three-card-combo
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...uls-Progenitus

    Some inputs on the rule part:
    VIV.
    1) No trick for you. Qasali's ability resolves (and it is no longer on the battlefield) before Pithing Needle enters the battlefield.
    2) No trick for Extirpate. However, you need to cast your Painter before passing priority (After Intuition resolves on your turn, you get the priority first).
    3) No trick for Mox Opal. The Legendary rule forces you to sacrifice before you will get a chance to activate even mana abilities (This has been enforced since Tolarian Academy.).
    4) and 5) You get the tutored cards, just as the same way how Infernal Tutor/Brainstorm+LED works.
    6) Emrakul in the graveyard is a creature card, but not a creature, hence not affected by Humility.
    7) Mana pool is emptied after each phase. The phase after upkeep is the draw phase.

  3. #3
    Tom MacDonald
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    Re: [PRIMER] U/R Painter

    5.) Can I cast Intuition then sacrifice my LED in response?
    Q: Do I get the card I Intuition for?
    What you need to do is cast intuition and retain priority, you then sacrifice your Lion's Eye Diamond (Before Intuition resolves) This Will causa e you to discard your hand and put 3 mana into your pool, intuition will then resolve. so yes, you can end up with the card and the 3 mana.
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  4. #4
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    Re: [PRIMER] U/R Painter

    You should actually post the list as well, not just link to it. That's my only criticism. Otherwise, good job!

    -Matt

  5. #5
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    Re: [PRIMER] U/R Painter

    Amazing job Marc, that is one of the most detailed and indepth primers, it will be very good for new people trying to get in to the archetype.

    As for the questions, just like the other guys answered but to reiterate:

    1.) Welding in a pithing needle (naming Quasali Pridemage) in response to a Quasali Pridemage sacrifice?
    Q: Is the pridemage still able to sacrifice itself?


    The ability is already on the stack so nope. But one thing that has happened to me in tournaments is I'll cast pithing needle, my opponent asks me what I name and I say Quasali, he'll try to activate Quasali but I inform him he can't. Same situation with cabal therapy, opponent can't respond after asking you what you name.


    2.) It is currently my turn, I cast intuition for 3 Painter’s Servant.
    a. My opponent obviously picks Painter’s Servant and I place that in my hand.
    b. As I was about to cast Painter’s Servant, he casts Expirate on me removing Painter’s Servant.
    Q: Does the Painter in my hand get removed? Or do I still have priority to cast it. (Lets say it was done before B? Or After B)


    You're the active player, so you have priority. He can't just cast extirpate out of no where, you can cast your Painter first then he could respond to it with Extirpate but it will not stop your Painter from resolving.


    3.) I have metal craft. I play my Mox opal, tap it for mana, then I play another mox opal.
    Q: Can I still tap the newly entered mox opal for mana before destroying both opals due to legendary rules?


    Nope, legend rule, can't respond to it =\


    4.) I transmute my Muddle the Mixture and in response to that I use LED.
    Q: Do I still get the card I transmuted it for? Does this work?


    It is an activated ability so you can still respond with LED without passing priority.


    5.) Can I cast Intuition then sacrifice my LED in response?
    Q: Do I get the card I Intuition for?

    Yep, just like the Infernal Tutor/LED in TES, you can respond to your own spell but it is important to announce you are retaining priority.


    6.) Does humility affect Emrakul in the graveyard?
    Q: If yes then does that mean I get to shuffle?

    Nope, our answer to him is Tormod's.


    7.) My opponent floats mana during my upkeep. I then declare battle phase. Then I end combat step.
    a.) I then cast my painter's servant, my opponent uses his floating mana to counter it.
    Q: Doesn't floating mana "go away" after battle phase is concluded? Doesn't he have to use that mana prior to end of combat step?


    He can't do that, mana doesn't float through the phases like that.
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    Re: [PRIMER] U/R Painter

    Thanks Alex! Especially comming from you lol

    Oh thanks for answering the extra questions section. I'll revise the primer accordingly :D

    Wanna start writing articles for SCG? I can write as a ghost writer hahaha



    Sorry Question #6 was not meant for this primer lol

    I was compiling my list for commonly asked judge questions/interactions.

    That particular question was for a sneak attack deck.

    The question was if emrakul was sneaked in. at end of turn does he still need to be sacrificed? (due to sneak attack's conditions).

    But since he goes into the graveyard, does humility still affect it preventing it from re-shuffling youre graveyard/library?

  7. #7
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    Re: [PRIMER] U/R Painter

    . Same situation with cabal therapy, opponent can't respond after asking you what you name.

    Somewhat misleading, in a way. Many times when you're playing against blue decks, wait until you get confirmation of it resolving before you name. I've had tricky opponents where I've cast Needle or Cabal Therapy and named the card, but then they counter it. Why? They never said it has resolved yet, and I had "jumped the gun." Yeah right. Point being, wait until confirmation of resolution before naming. You don't want to give free information before anything is actually set in stone.

    -Matt

  8. #8
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    Not so sure about that: red offers pyroclasm, one of the best sweeper right now, and black has massacre, virtue's ruin, perish and damnation.

    Moreover they are full of point removal, artifact and planeswalker destruction: they only lack enchantment removal.

    I think that a mix of those can cover your necessities.

    And btw, I like the idea of combo control too! But in another deck... ;-)

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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I was thinking that the lists running Transmute Artifact and Painter/Stone were attempting to maximize the use of that combo and adding other complimentary "Plan B"s. When I look at such lists, that's my only conclusion anyway; hence why I directed the two new threads over to here.

    Using Transmute Artifact for value rather than combo is a different take, and like merfolkofpt has alluded, fits better in the UB Tezz deck as a psuedo-Tinker/tutor.
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  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Random question: why are people playing the Imperial Recruiter version instead of the U/R one?

    The U/R version seems to me so much solid.

  11. #11
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by emt37 View Post
    Random question: why are people playing the Imperial Recruiter version instead of the U/R one?

    The U/R version seems to me so much solid.
    Novelty factor?
    Budget (as much as that makes sense... $600 playset is still cheaper than FOW + Volcs + Fetches)
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  12. #12
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by emt37 View Post
    Random question: why are people playing the Imperial Recruiter version instead of the U/R one?

    The U/R version seems to me so much solid.
    Each has strengths and weaknesses it depends on your style. I would argue the opposite but to each his own. Painter is just awesome in general

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Each has strengths and weaknesses it depends on your style. I would argue the opposite but to each his own. Painter is just awesome in general
    How can the U/R version be less solid than the Painter version?

    Sure, you do not have Blood Moon, but you still have way more tutors, counters and brainstorm (you could even use thirst for knowldege).

    Also Blood Moon is situational as hell (and the Imperial Painter auto-loses against show and tell decks while with the U/R version you can easily tutor a Tormod's Crypt/Nihil Spellbomb).

  14. #14

    @new thread discussion
    I really don't see a huge difference between TA builds and not. We are still a UR build using cantrips, counters, and tutors. TA is just another tool. Having a single discussion of the merits of different builds in one thread is beneficial to all playing UR painter.

    But I have a question about SB
    I really like leyline of sanctity. How do others feel about this? Against discard and storm it just buys us sooo much time. And protects an "all in" hand.

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Ish View Post
    But I have a question about SB
    I really like leyline of sanctity. How do others feel about this? Against discard and storm it just buys us sooo much time. And protects an "all in" hand.
    It's an interesting idea, but I can't really get behind it. Unlike other decks, I don't think we want to mulligan for the Leyline. Also, I don't think discard is our main problem. We have enough ways to play around discard: hiding with Brainstorm/SD.Top, recurring with Welder/Academy Ruins, tutoring up more stuff with Transmute Artifact and Intuition. Most discard decks (Jund, BUG) are also weak to Blood Moon and I also want Spellskite in these matchups, and against Esper, I definitely want Spellskites and REBs from the board. So the question is: what to cut from the board and what to take out from your main deck when brining in leyline?

    Now against Storm, it sounds more promising, especially since they will bring in Abrupt Decay as the main form of interacting with us and might be cold to it if they don't bring in bounce effects, and Goblin Tokens are ususally not fast enough against us.
    I just don't see it being good enough to take four slots in the board. Against Storm, I have been very happy with 3 Flusterstorms, 2 more REB effects and a singleton Thorn of Amethyst to tutor with TA.
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  16. #16

    This is why I love this forum. Great thoughtful response! I can really see the downside to having leyline of sanctity, and I love the thorn idea side.

    havnt had a real chance to test with spellskite, seems good though I think.

    I playing this deck after being on mono red iPainter for some time now. My recent matches have been plagued by basic lands though! Not sure blood moon is as powerful as it was a few months ago. But here we can play it in the side anyway for those greedy manabases.

  17. #17

    Here's my current list for comment:

    Creatures:10
    4 Goblin Welder
    4 Painter's Servant
    2 Wurmcoil Engine

    Spells:30
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Mox Opal
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Grindstone
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Grim Monolith
    4 Transmute Artifact
    3 Intuition
    4 Force of Will

    Lands:20
    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    2 Great Furnace
    3 Island
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Seat of the Synod
    2 Volcanic Island

    Sideboard:15
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Spellskite
    1 Thorn of Amethyst
    3 Blood Moon
    1 Ensnaring Bridge

  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    #game.
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  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Congrats to Koby on another t16 for UR painter. The list looked neat. Was just 2 intuition enough for you? What about the izzet charm, did it work out?

    As for that other list that just got posted, i am super happy having gone down to 0 LED (I have three monoliths that do almost identical work) and 3 Transmutes for the 21st land, but that seems like a personal preference. I also still would not play a maindeck with 0 tormod's crypts but again that is personal preference.

  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by merfolkotpt View Post
    Congrats to Koby on another t16 for UR painter. The list looked neat. Was just 2 intuition enough for you? What about the izzet charm, did it work out?

    As for that other list that just got posted, i am super happy having gone down to 0 LED (I have three monoliths that do almost identical work) and 3 Transmutes for the 21st land, but that seems like a personal preference. I also still would not play a maindeck with 0 tormod's crypts but again that is personal preference.
    Thanks, I've debated the LED, but has saved me a few times due to 0 cost, or needing to dump an artifact.

    As for the crypt. I also agree! I have since gone, -1 Top, +1 Crypt or Nihil Spell Bomb


    Also: Congrats Koby!!! My friend just pointed me to your T16.

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