"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I think that shores are slightly better here since they give you give you choke protection + enable you to cast an EE for 3 with the help of an opal to get rid of a choke. I would imagine a more optimal build would involve fetches, duals and brainstorms but that is probably an entirely different deck.
My question is why would you not build this deck with chalice and whir??? Antiquities war is actually a sweet and powerful alt. Win con but I would definitely play chalice in this deck. Just replace the preordain with whir.
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Not with whir in your deck.
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It's also running opals and a chrome mox. I would cut one of the opals and add another island. Just remember, this change would be for the ability to run one of the most busted cards in magic. There are decks (eg. Most delver strategies, miracles and for sure death's shadow) that are totally neutered by chalice. Why wouldn't you run it in your 7 Sol land deck. Even on turn two chalice is nut. I've been playing this some online (even with the grindstone bug) and I just think chalice is huge. Whir is also good for that surprise combo of out of nowhere or surprised tormod's crypt against graveyard strategies.
In other news, had anyone else been playing with antiquities war up to this point? I need to start paying more attention to newer cards. This thing is bonkers.
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I think even WITH moxen the UUU is tough.
It was tough in the Whir build with only 3 non islands.
Someone refresh me on the chalice list. Wasn't it playing 13-14 lands and some number of azcantas on top of that? That seems like it'd be enough to cast whirl atleast semi consistently. Imo the biggest issue with the chalice list is what Megadeus said, that's you are playing chalice in your combo deck where one of your pieces is 1 cmc.
Let me be clear, if you have chalice on turn one you are playing it, just like you play a turn one blood moon in shortcake even though your tutors are white. You have other answers in the deck to either combo out later by getting a grindstone with whir or eating the chalice with Sai if you need to. Or you win with antiquities war which is probably 70% of your wins anyway given it's basically a one card combo. Chalice is such a strong effect that it takes over games on its own just like blood moon sometimes does. You guys play what you want. But I would be happy to play against any of you not playing chalice in your mono blue painter deck when I do have chalice in mine.
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I've been going back and forth on Search for Azcanta in my chalice builds. I do like it, and it's certainly good against Grixis and Miracles, but it's also quite slow. I've been liking Flusterstorm (yes, even in a deck with Chalice) because the deck struggles against discard in general and Hymn to Tourach especially. It also protects your combo and does work against other combo decks. Overall I think either is defensible and it depends on your playstyle and what you expect to face.
As far as the anti-synergy between playing Chalice and Grindstone in the same deck, it's a question of whether having access to Chalice is better than whatever else you could be doing [in mono-blue], and I think there's a strong argument that it is. The reason for this is that you have 5 ways to put Grindstone into play through a Chalice, and Chalice is probably the strongest prison card in legacy at the moment. In many cases, if it doesn't prompt an outright concession, it buys you enough time to put together even a 'clunkier' combo via a Whir or Transmute.
You can also end up in situations where if your opponent destroys your Chalice to unlock other cards in their hand, you can play your Grindstone and either win on the spot or follow up with another Chalice.
If I had to register something tomorrow, it would probably be something along these lines:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grindstone
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
4 Painter's Servant
3 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Whir of Invention
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
14 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Academy Ruins
1 Seat of the Synod
Sideboard
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Back to Basics
2 Echoing Truth
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Walking Ballista
1 Spellskite
1 Meekstone
I would like to try Sai and The Antiquities War in a similar build to this, having played them both in a non-painter build recently. If you do, you obviously want to up the cheap artifact count, which in turn lets you play Mox Opal and possibly Thoughtcast over Thirst for Knowledge. I haven't played this list, but I think it's a reasonable starting point.
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grindstone
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Welding Jar
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Mox Opal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Painter’s Servant
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
1 Walking Ballista
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtcast
3 The Antiquities War
2 Whir of Invention
2 Transmute Artifact
8 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Academy Ruins
Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Back to Basics
2 Echoing Truth
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Walking Ballista
1 Spellskite
1 Meekstone
Fyi, bug is fixed!
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I actually like a couple elements of your Antiquties War list so gave it a try. First, the bad... I would get rid of the one of walking ballista and swap out the e.e for a ratchet bomb. I think those two cards are only good when you have trinket mage to go find them. they aren't very good when you are tutoring them into play with whir/transmute/tezz. You probably also still need a bridge main.
The good... I actually really like the mix of whir/transmute/tezz over 4 x whir. In fact, I played a couple matches against Miracles and tezz is just pure nut. Would consider playing 2 main or 1 main and 1 SB. I also REALLY like thoughtcast in the deck and think it's totally fine to shave an antiquities war, grindstone, etc to make room for them.
I'm actually trying Null Brooch in the SB for Miracles and other combo decks. Not sure it will be at all good but just fun spice.
So far undefeated but only playing in the practice room so far. Not sure the deck is quite ready for prime time yet.
This is clearly a transcription error. The correct card is Darksteel Citadel.
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