[Deck] Painter-Stone

[Cyanhur]

That's not how kcommand works though. Once the spell resolves both actions happen at the same time. Since both modes can independently target you should be able to redirect both modes to my spellskite since he's a valid target for both modes both portions of the card should be redirected.

Hisa's post just confirms that the card is indeed bugged on mtgo.

That strange a friend confirm me we cant because we have to keep 2 target and not the same.

[compacta_d]

That strange a friend confirm me we cant because we have to keep 2 target and not the same.

If a spell is modal and has "target" twice printed, then spellskite can change each target.

If the spell or ability only says "target" once, like elder deep fiend, or Forked bolt, then it does NOT work.

Worth noting you can target anything on the stack with spellskite.

[Cyanhur]

If a spell is modal and has "target" twice printed, then spellskite can change each target.

If the spell or ability only says "target" once, like elder deep fiend, or Forked bolt, then it does NOT work.

Worth noting you can target anything on the stack with spellskite.

Okok thanks!

I saw you drude1 yesterday and many painter player on your stream.
What is the best choice when the meta game is many grixis 4c or delver deck?
Blue painter calice or Hisa deck?

[drude1]

Hey, for those of you watching the stream today here is the second list I was playing...


// Lands
2 [MR] Great Furnace
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [UNH] Island
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [B] Underground Sea
2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
1 [B] Badlands
4 [KTK] Polluted Delta
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [UL] Goblin Welder
2 [C16] Baleful Strix

// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [IA] Pyroblast
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [C15] Brainstorm
2 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 [AL] Force of Will
1 [AQ] Transmute Artifact
1 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 [XLN] Search for Azcanta/Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin
2 [KLD] Smuggler's Copter
4 [CH] Blood Moon
3 [KLI] Lotus Petal

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 [AL] Helm of Obedience
SB: 2 [C15] Fiery Confluence
SB: 2 [EMN] Collective Brutality
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague


I might switch out the engineered plague for something else such as spellbomb or cursed scroll. Want to have creature removal that hits deathrite.
Anyway, I should be on again either late tonight or tomorrow morning. Twitch account is Rude_Eternal.

[Darklingske]

I've been trying the grixis list for a few FNM's and honestly, it made me feel horrible. Never in any game have I had the feeling of being in control or ahead. It was more like I was always on the backfoot and struggling to remain in the game. Welder get's bolted or pushed almost immediately. Walkers didn't survive long with flying delvers and the second part of the combo always got countered. It just didn't feel strong. I was playing against Grixis Delver, UR-Delver and BUG-delver for the most of the time and maybe those are just bad MU, but if that is the case, then I don't think Grixis Painter is a smart choice in the current meta here. I'm switching again to the mono-U list.

[CptHaddock]

What problems are you having in the matchups? What does your list look like?

UR Delver is just a glorified burn deck with counterspells so if you're playing a grindy version of the deck the matchup shouldn't be favorable. BUG and Grixis Delver have been fine for me, the 19 land grixis delver decks that are playing multiple copies of snapcaster and kcommand are unwinnable but that variant is so fringe in the metagame at large. These matchups just come down to slowing down and developing in the early game and you absolutely have an advantage in the late. Or if you see an opportunity in the early game just take it. If you're having trouble with these matchups i'd recommend playing a couple spellskites in your main, and a couple of removal spells in your board.

I'm not really sure what you are gaining by playing mono blue painter unless you are playing the chalice version.

[drude1]

I've been trying the grixis list for a few FNM's and honestly, it made me feel horrible. Never in any game have I had the feeling of being in control or ahead. It was more like I was always on the backfoot and struggling to remain in the game. Welder get's bolted or pushed almost immediately. Walkers didn't survive long with flying delvers and the second part of the combo always got countered. It just didn't feel strong. I was playing against Grixis Delver, UR-Delver and BUG-delver for the most of the time and maybe those are just bad MU, but if that is the case, then I don't think Grixis Painter is a smart choice in the current meta here. I'm switching again to the mono-U list.

I haven't played the mono blue painter list so I don't know how it plays out, but welders are just redundancy for the combo and the walkers are win cons if you can't combo with painter (eg. emrakul). Also just remember that if nothing else Tezzeret just turns into a 5/5 creature that can go on the offensive. If he lives a turn then you usually have two 5/5's that can just win the game. I'm not sure how playing the mono blue list fixes the problems you otherwise complained about. They can still just as easily counter the second part of your combo or save all that creature removal they were playing on the welder to just kill your painter. Now if you are playing chalice then obviously you can shut off a bunch of their cards right away which has its own advantages and disadvantages. I know that this is really going to sound like I am tooting my own horn, but the reason I've been playing a grixis painter list with 4 main blood moons is basically for the same reason. I wasn't having very good luck with the grixis control painter list either but 4 blood moon creates the same problem for your opponents that chalice does. But you can also play your own 1 drops. I've been having much more success with that list. It also feels like you are just dropping bombs on your opponent a lot more as well. Just something else you could try.

[Darklingske]

I haven't played the mono blue painter list so I don't know how it plays out... I'm not sure how playing the mono blue list fixes the problems you otherwise complained about. They can still just as easily counter the second part of your combo or save all that creature removal they were playing on the welder to just kill your painter. Now if you are playing chalice then obviously you can shut off a bunch of their cards right away which has its own advantages and disadvantages.
I know that this is really going to sound like I am tooting my own horn, but the reason I've been playing a grixis painter list with 4 main blood moons is basically for the same reason. Just something else you could try.

It could just be own subjective feelings (probably is) but I felt more at ease with the mono-U list and more in control overall.
I haven't tried moon in a grixis list. Isn't it too much of a negative effect for our 3 colour manabase to run 4 main?
I'm gonna run the mono-U list with Chalice now. Maybe I'll find the ideal configuration (for me) some day, but until then, I'll keep testing and switching it up. And please,do keep testing all the different builds and posting the results. I'm having so much fun with the different lists (be it with or without frustrations and bad beats)

[kombatkiwi]

Caleb Durward was streaming yesterday with a mono red list with 4 mono-red Daretti

It was 4 moon and 0 Chalice
4 Welder
7(?) Artifact fatty (Wurmcoil, Sundering Titan, Battlesphere at least x2 each, I think at one point he was also trying Combustible Gearhulk but I don't think that card is good)
4 Painter 4 Grindstone 4 Lotus Petal 2-3 Mox Opal, Great Furnace
Sol Lands
4 Faithless Looting seemed like a very important card and in the end he was even trying 1-2 Tormenting Voice

Overall quite similar to the deck drude1 is playing
If you imagine -2 Tezzeret -1 Azcanta -1 Black Daretti +4 Red Daretti
-4 Brainstorm +4 Faithless Looting
-2 Copter +2 Tormenting Voice
- Counterspells +Big Artifact Creatures, and there you go.

Faithless looting has much more synergy with Welder than Brainstorm, and after that decision it makes some sense to add big bomb artifact creatures and Daretti
In mono R there isn't an obvious good substitute for Baleful Strix, and so it's probably slightly harder to make Copter work (Bomat Courier???). Tormenting Voice didn't seem very good but overall the rest of the deck seemed decent

[shadowgripper]

I've recently picked up this deck as of a couple weeks ago. I've always had a soft spot for Painter. One of my first legacy decks was mono-red painter, mostly all in on the combo with some disruption. I've tried other builds of Painter, such as a more prison-based deck or a hyper combo deck (like mono-blue), but all of those fell short of consistently picking up matchups wins... or they just weren't my style.

Then I discovered Hisa's list on the forums here (list for ref: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/946496 ) and fell in love. It plays like a midrange deck that creates a lot of value and threatens a combo kill, as well as presenting a unique disruption package. I took the list to a weekly event and went 4-0. I then made some changes, adjusting the manabase to accommodate more Baleful Strix and kept doing well.

I played the below list at a legacy event yesterday, going 5-0 in swiss, then ID to top 8, then lost immediately afterwards against Storm.

Grixis Painter
4 Goblin Welder
4 Baleful Strix
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Pyroblast
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Mox Opal
3 Grindstone
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm

3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Seat of the Synod
1 Great Furnace
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Inventors' Fair

Sideboard
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Flusterstorm
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Collective Brutality
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 Blood Moon
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid

I still like the list, but want to adjust the manabase to support the color package better. I want to swap the Tomb, Furnace, and Mountain for another Delta, a Vault of Whispers, and a Spire of Industry. My updated list is kept current, here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/947408

Let me know your thoughts. Not sure how to make the Storm matchup better.

- Zac

[CptHaddock]

Let me know your thoughts. Not sure how to make the Storm matchup better.

- Zac

I think that is a big problem with that list. This deck has always had game against decks like storm in that you can race them and by actively taking out things like intuition and transmute artifact in favor grinding cards you slow yourself down a lot. I feel like if that is your approach you actively need to have cards in your sideboard to disrupt storm. I'd play more discard, flusterstorms, you also have the option more artifact based hate like phyrexian revoker. Drude's original list has the helm/leyline combo so you have another combo to race against combo, that is also a pretty good plan.

[Hisa]

I think that is a big problem with that list. This deck has always had game against decks like storm in that you can race them and by actively taking out things like intuition and transmute artifact in favor grinding cards. I feel like if that is your approach you actively need to have cards in your sideboard to disrupt storm. I'd play more discard, flusterstorms, you also have the option more artifact based hate like phyrexian revoker. Drude's original list has the helm/leyline combo so you have another combo to race against combo, that is also a pretty good plan.

This is absolutely correct. By reducing the speed of the combo and trading it for a better fair game you lose a lot of points vs fast combo. The storm matchups are not unwinable, but you're definitely behind. I think this is true of any midrange control deck.


I don't like Helm combo in this deck, especially if you're cutting Ancient Tombs. It's good in Tezzerator and the like because of the 7+ sol lands (and mox opal / diamond) which lets you reliably cast and activate t2 or t3. The manabase in the midrange version of this deck isn't designed to do that, and helm is way less scary on t5. It also takes up infinite sideboard slots.

[waz]

Picked up the deck again and it felt almost as smooth as before. Really nice work Hisa.

I tried 1 of Hope of Ghirapur in place of the Greaves. Never saw it in the small tournament I ran the deck in, but in a practice game against czech pile, it allowed me to t2 combo. As well, I like that it can suit up a copter, and is another 1 drop artifact for opal.

[Hisa]

Picked up the deck again and it felt almost as smooth as before. Really nice work Hisa.

I tried 1 of Hope of Ghirapur in place of the Greaves. Never saw it in the small tournament I ran the deck in, but in a practice game against czech pile, it allowed me to t2 combo. As well, I like that it can suit up a copter, and is another 1 drop artifact for opal.

Thank you.

I was messing around with HoG before the Top ban. I like it too, and its very good against storm, especially if you have Welder.

[Hisa]

So, the Imperial thread is discussing Grim Lavamancer. I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it, as it gets punished by GY hate (which is probably coming in anyway), but it crews copter and seems like it could be great against Dilbert, DRS, Pyrobro et al. So I'll probably test a couple in the board, see how it goes.

[waz]

It's an interesting way of getting around the search for azcanta issue of putting cards in the graveyard which fuels an opponent's DRS.

I was considering a relic for that purpose.

[NinjaSonic]

Has anybody else tried Caleb's list? I love Painter's Sevant and have been going back and forth between Grixis and the mono red list but wasn't a fan of the lists on the Imperial Painter threads.

[Cyanhur]

Hi,

maybe this spoiler can do something with U painter?


The Antiquities War
3U Enchantment — Saga

(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)

I, II — Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal an artifact card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.

III — Artifacts you control become artifact creatures with base power and toughness 5/5 until end of turn.

[Hisa]

Hi,

maybe this spoiler can do something with U painter?


The Antiquities War
3U Enchantment — Saga

(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)

I, II — Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal an artifact card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.

III — Artifacts you control become artifact creatures with base power and toughness 5/5 until end of turn.

I am way more excited about Damping Sphere.

https://i.imgur.com/owZCxNK.png

[merfolkotpt]

Damping sphere is interesting to me too, though the shell feels like it would need to change also.