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Thread: [Deck] Painter-Stone

  1. #921
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    @Kaono: you sell Retrofitter Foundry quite well, even though it looks bad I'm getting a copy for testing now..

  2. #922

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by tired_papasmurf View Post
    Has anyone tried combining the power-packed taste of the two Painters decks that placed highly at that one SCG event into UW? Something like the below? I like the idea of the Canonist+Copter package, and Antiquities War is just a house that turns both those cards on. Obviously without Welder the pitch to Copter isnt as good.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Plains
    2 Island
    2 Seat of the Synod
    1 Ancient Den
    1 Tundra

    3 Sai, Master Thoperist
    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Trinket Mage

    4 Mox Opal

    4 Grindstone
    3 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Meekstone

    4 Antiquities War
    2 Thoughtcast
    4 Force of Will
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    I’ve been trying a UW version also.
    First big problem is having enough blue sources for force of will.
    Frank Carsten says you need minimum of 13 creatures for 2 copters and 19 for 3.
    I can’t get off whir of invention so that’s why it’s there. Gets around opposing chalice and instant speed catches so many people for the mill win.
    I’d like to get more out of smugglers loot and maybe even intuition but I don’t know what benefits from the graveyard exist for this archetype outside welder?

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Island
    3 Seat of the Synod
    2 Tundra

    3 Sai, Master Thoperist
    4 Painter's Servant
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Trinket Mage
    1 walking ballista

    4 Mox Opal
    3 Grindstone
    2 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Engineered Explosives

    3 whir of invention
    3 Antiquities War
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    2 ponder
    1 Meekstone

    Sb
    2 ensnaring bridge
    1 walking ballista
    2 flusterstorm
    1 pithing needle
    1 disenchant
    2 hydroblast
    1 tormods crypt
    3 swords to plowshares
    2 ethersworn cannonist

  3. #923

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I still trying my Grixis grind list, with some modifications.

    Current List:

    1 Academy Ruins
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Badlands
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain
    2 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Seat of the Synod

    3 Goblin Welder
    4 Baleful Strix
    3 Painter's Servant
    1 Imperial Recruiter
    2 Trinket Mage
    1 Walking Ballista


    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Lightning Bolt
    1 Abrade
    1 Kolaghan's Command
    2 Pyroblast

    1 Search for Azcanta

    1 Grindstone
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    2 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Aether Spellbomb

    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    1 Dack Fayden
    1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

    Sideboard:
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Abrade
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Meekstone
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Pithing Needle


    Some reports:
    4 rounds tournament (3-1)
    (1-2) Merfolks
    (2-0) D&T
    (2-0) UW Stoneblade
    (2-0) AK Miracles

    6 rounds tournament (4-2)
    (2-0) BG Depths
    (1-2) Elves
    (2-0) BR Reanimator
    (2-1) D&T
    (2-1) Burn
    (0-2) Goblins

    And I still losing for tematic creature decks. -.-!

  4. #924
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I played four rounds with my Grixis Painter list yesterday, and did satisfactory - matchups were UR Storm (2-0), RUG Delver (1-2), Grixis Control (2-0), Eldrazi Stompy (2-1). I've really come to appreciate the Thopter/Swords combo as a secondary win condition, with Transmute Artifact providing the flexibility required to make it work reliably, if needed. I'm considering a miser Retrofitter Foundry as a Trinket Mage target, it seems both cute and powerful :>

  5. #925
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Went 3-0 and 2-1 in two separate side events at the GP today with UW. Beat UB Shadow, Lands, Infect, Turbo Depths, and Esper Control and got beat by Junk Planeswalker NicFit.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    2 Seat of the Synod
    1 Ancient Den
    1 Inventor's Fair

    3 Sai, Master Thoperist
    4 Trinket Mage
    4 Ethersworn Canonist
    4 Painter's Servent
    1 Hope of Ghirapur

    4 Grindstone
    3 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Meekstone
    1 Tormod's Crypt

    3 Lotus Petal
    1 Mox Opal

    4 Force of Will
    4 The Antiquities War
    2 Reverse Engineer

    Sideboard:
    1 Blue Elemental Blast
    2 Divert
    1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
    1 Thopter Spy Network
    1 Tezzeret, Artiface Master
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Disenchant

    Comments about this build:
    - I don't own multiple Mox Opals (I picked up a second with the winnings); I feel like those Petals should be Opals.
    - The Crypt on the main is super adorable, but it actually won me G1 against Esper Control by shutting off Snapcaster for Swords in the yard. I don't know if it's actually better than the 4th Copter, but it's super good against Snapcaster and since there's so many control decks leveraging it I don't know if I want to take it out of the main.
    - I never ran into trouble in terms of colored mana, and the Fair over performed IMO by getting combo pieces. Wasteland was a nightmare just because the deck's desperate to get to 4 mana and shit out its hand.
    - Deck is still weak to super aggro starts, like T1 Delver, T2 Delver and flip both. But if given time to set up shop it feels amazing since every piece always felt relevant or a must-counter. This might be because I didn't naturally draw the Crypt when I didn't need it...
    - This version felt like beatdown was Game Plan 1, combo/slam War was Game Plan 2
    - The Trinket Mage package over performed in Game 1's in my opinion. Getting the Meekstone for Shadow, explosives to clear blockers, etc.
    - I liked Reverse Engineer way better than I did Thoughtcast. The third card makes all the difference, and with the Sol Lands there was almost no way I didn't have the mana. I only cast it once over 6 games though, I never really drew them.
    - Divert was my attempt to fight Hymn, and I don't know if this deck wants to be holding up the blue mana (and not advancing the board). It was a terrible late game draw, since my opponents had plenty of mana by then and Canonist incentivises them to pay for the Divert (since they cant use the rest of their mana anyway)
    - That Tezzeret shouldn't be on the side; the only matchup I felt okay to bring it in was the NicFit deck. Every other one felt like it could easily attack it to death. Padeem and Thopter Spy Network were much better, since they demand answers and can't just be attacked.
    - War makes me feel like I can bring the Cage in against Snapcaster Mage decks and it doesn't just feel terrible. Plus it's an easy swap to take out the Meekstone (usually).

  6. #926

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I’ll be running Grixis Painter (Artificer’s Intuition) at Eternal Weekend.

  7. #927

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    I’ll be running Grixis Painter (Artificer’s Intuition) at Eternal Weekend.
    Sounds fantastic! Care to share?

  8. #928

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I can get a list posted later. I've been working on at least ten (no joke) iterations of the deck list, because it has been extremely difficult to build a strong list around the card. I've also been testing iterations with Lazav, the Multifarious with Phyrexian Dreadnought.

    But the one thing I've noticed is that whenever Intuition sticks, it's incredible.

  9. #929

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by tired_papasmurf View Post
    Divert was my attempt to fight Hymn, and I don't know if this deck wants to be holding up the blue mana (and not advancing the board). It was a terrible late game draw, since my opponents had plenty of mana by then and Canonist incentivises them to pay for the Divert (since they cant use the rest of their mana anyway)
    Just run Welder shenanigans with Metrognome. It's really good with The Antiquities War: 5/5 Gnome beats!

    Also as an aside: Retrofitter Foundry with Welder and cards like Sai/Roterothopter/etc. can be deadly. I don't think people truly understand how some of the top decks in the format are so thin on threats. Look at Grixis Control and UB Shadow: both of those decks run hardly any creatures. Sticking that card can be incredibly good against a lot of those decks that can't push through damage.

  10. #930
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I'm also very curious about your Artificer list, Michael, any other clues you can give us? Lazav and Dreadnought, that would be wonderful... Hope to see you on coverage this weekend!

    I tried to put together an Artificer list myself, to get an impression of what could be done. It (Artificer's Intuition) seems very good for finding bullets such as Ballista, Explosives and Needle. And Grindstone for the combo, obviously. And as a discard outlet for a few big artifact creatures, I was thinking of trying one each of Sundering Titan, Inkwell Leviathan and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. And then I wanted a Reanimate or two, maybe a Recurring Nightmare, to get back an answered Welder or Painter, and also for recursion of Baleful Strix, and then for the occasional reanimation of those big artifact creatures. I also ran two Copters and 4 Strixes, since Welder + Copter + Strix work well together (and Copter is another discard outlet for Welding in the big artifact creatures). I also decided to go for Thoughtseize and Pyroblast for interaction spells. So... Anything reasonably close?

    Hmm Expedition Map enables tutoring for lands too, that could be useful. Like Academy Ruins. I also like the idea of a Mox Opal [edit: I meant 4] and one each of the artifact lands, that way Artificer's Intuition becomes a mana fixer and you get more live late game draws.

    Edit: another card I feel like trying is Phyrexian Processor. Vs combo decks and control decks this can be played as a one or two turn clock.

  11. #931

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    I'm also very curious about your Artificer list, Michael, any other clues you can give us? Lazav and Dreadnought, that would be wonderful... Hope to see you on coverage this weekend!

    I tried to put together an Artificer list myself, to get an impression of what could be done. It (Artificer's Intuition) seems very good for finding bullets such as Ballista, Explosives and Needle. And Grindstone for the combo, obviously. And as a discard outlet for a few big artifact creatures, I was thinking of trying one each of Sundering Titan, Inkwell Leviathan and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. And then I wanted a Reanimate or two, maybe a Recurring Nightmare, to get back an answered Welder or Painter, and also for recursion of Baleful Strix, and then for the occasional reanimation of those big artifact creatures. I also ran two Copters and 4 Strixes, since Welder + Copter + Strix work well together. I also decided to go for Thoughtseize and Pyroblast for interaction spells. So... Anything reasonably close?
    Very close.

    I don't have a definitive list set yet, because there are multiple iterations I'm testing before finalizing the list for the weekend. However, my list will maximize the utility of Goblin Welder, will leverage the Painter's Servant-Grindstone combination, include some defensive components like Explosives and Meekstone and will use Planeswalkers like Daretti and even Liliana, the Last Hope. (Milling an artifact and bringing it in with Welder is really fun, as well as ticking up to take out your own Strix to provide card advantage with Welder.) Liliana also brings back Welder, Painter and Strix.

    Dack Fayden is another card I'll likely play. I'm starting to believe it's probably just wrong to not play The Antiquities War in any capacity. Against any of the top decks, the card is game-winning. I am absolutely fitting in a Foundry in the list to tutor for, and will likely run a few cards to juice it up as a scary win condition.

    Inkwell has been the only giant creature in the list. They're otherwise bad without Welder or Intuition, and since I'm not sure if I'm playing Faithless Looting yet, I may just keep it as a singleton with a Sundering Titan in the board. I do also think it's wise to play Pyroblast with Painter. Decks like these can be cold to Show and Tell, so having a hard-counter for it is huge without holding back for Force (assuming Painter isn't on board to pitch anything to it).

    I'm also jamming Dread of Night into the board in multiples, because yeah: fuck that deck.

  12. #932
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I see, that sounds great, thanks for the clues! I've played a lot of Daretti (II) before, it's great, I try to always play one, Liliana seems fantastic too, I could never manage to fit her in though. And I agree about the Antiquities War, it seems to good not to play..

  13. #933

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    The one card I'm keying in on is Retrofitter Foundry. If you resolve it early against any of the format's top decks, it's very tough to beat because either makes huge creatures fast, or it generates advantage over multiple turns. Consider this: If this was on the stack against you and you were playing a deck with Force of Will, would you consider countering it? The answer is likely more on the"yes" side, because you don't really need to play your hand out - just make dudes.

    Also, back to Pyroblast: Back to Basics is real. Like, very real. Four maindeck Pyroblast answers fast Delvers, Back to Basics, offers protection for your key spells and stops Show and Tell. It's really too good not to play, especially with Painter. It also blows up Null Rod with a Painter in play.
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 11-01-2018 at 03:06 PM.

  14. #934
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Really looking forward to seeing this list Michael and hearing how Eternal Weekend went for you. Love me some Artificer’s Intuition!

  15. #935

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Went 6-5 at Eternal Weekend. Overall, I had a lot of fun playing the deck. I drove all day yesterday and am working today, but here is a short-list of my experience trying this out:

    1. Artificer's Intuition is a card that felt powerful when it resolved. It filtered a lot of dead draws (i.e. artifact lands, redundant Moxen) into utility.
    2. Baleful Strix and Goblin Welder were very good.
    3. The mana configuration of the list I played was flawed, and likely cost me several rounds.
    4. In the situations where Intuition was in hand or resolved, I actually felt like I wanted Transmute Artifact more, believe it or not.
    5. Retrofitter Foundry was incredible. Every opponent had to read it when it resolved. The problem with my deck was that it was only included as an auxiliary win-condition with Hangarback Walker and Sai, I think a more dedicated Foundry approach would be better - meaning a deck featuring its strength as opposed to tossing it in as a backup.
    6. I opted for REB over Force in the deck. The reasoning behind this was to combat resolved Delvers, improve its utility with Painter as a hard-counter/vindicate (for Back to Basics and Counterbalance) and act as a hard counter to Show and Tell. In hindsight, Force - in conjunction with Blasts - would have been better.

    I'm kind of shelving the Artificer's Intuition exploration for a little bit. I think it's a fun concept, and it can be competitive. The problem is that my configuration - even with rigorous testing - only batted slightly over .500. This was due in large part to confusing craftsmanship, mana misconfiguration and a deck that was trying to do too much. It wasn't bad, it was just the deck felt unstable.

  16. #936
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Sorry to read it didn't exactly work out for you this time. Still, I've be very curious to see the list you registered! :)

  17. #937

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    I played in two side events and X-0ed with the deck, but more importantly than that, I tried taking notes identifying flaws with it in active competition. I was more concerned with what was wrong with it than what was right.

  18. #938
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Went 6-5 at Eternal Weekend. Overall, I had a lot of fun playing the deck. I drove all day yesterday and am working today, but here is a short-list of my experience trying this out:
    Thanks Michael - are you able to share the list you did play? Did you run the Lazav package? Which planeswalkers did you run?

  19. #939

    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabs View Post
    Thanks Michael - are you able to share the list you did play? Did you run the Lazav package? Which planeswalkers did you run?
    I'm at work now so it's hard to write it out. I did not run Lazav, and the planeswalkers I ran were 2x Daretti I.I., 1x Dack Fayden and 1x Liliana, the Last Hope.

  20. #940
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    Re: [Deck] Painter-Stone

    Thanks again. Any time you get to detail more about the deck, the reasoning for your choices and the games themselves would be greatly appreciated but I get that you're putting the ol' AI down for a bit

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