ivan, I feel its wrong to not even play 1. Playing 1 lets you intuition for it and combo pieces and just win. I can't think of why I wouldn't want one.
Also, on the Bomberman combo in the board - it may be shaky, but it has to be better than SnT/Emrakul, no? SnT/Emrakul are completely anti-synergistic with the rest of the deck sans the colors.
@Ivan: Well LED is something I would like to have. I know its more of a conditional "win now" type card. But you cant really deny its ability to turn 1 or 2 your opponent. However I do understand the hesistation due to the number of interactions that opponents can do to painter.
Personally I like the bomberman move... but I do agree that its is VERY hard to get all 3 pieces out especially in a legacy environment.
I actually experienced games where I was forced to beat my way to victory lol :p But yes using a blast and misstep would be better in many occasions.
@EddieO: How many people played in that tourney? What place you got bro?
I think the ultimate challenge for a transmute type deck is Junk. So more testing on junk :D
What I REALLY want to test that deck against is the new Supreme Blue, Team America, and Junk as those decks usually give me the most fits.
Maybe on MWS or MTGO? Anybody wanna test this?
I'm panderalexander on AIM and Yahoo, I would like to see how the deck fairs against those tier decks and am down to playtest.Originally Posted by TheProfessor
Agree that I'd love to have 1 MD but it is very antisynergistic with Misstep, REB and Force. If you want to protect your painter from removal, LED doesnt work with counters. I think LEDs would be great in a Spellskite MD version though. But if you do that, your combo MU is going to be suspect because you are dropping too many counters. I'll retest LED with Spellskite and have a look at the results.
There was only 29.....not the best turnout, especially since the prizes were pretty good. My non-aggressive play cost me, which was I topped with 4 mana, led, and grindstone in play. I see a transmute artifact.....I should flip the top, but I worry if he bounces my painter in response, now I lost my top.....so I decide to wait..... He ends up top decking echoing truth for my bridge and kills me with emkrul......shows me his hand, thoughtseize and a land.....lame.
Spellskite is really all that and a bucket of chicken.......the only thing it can't stop is Krosan Grip really.....
I am probably gonna drop to 1 LED......I felt 3 was too much, but 2 seemed fine. I think if I drop 1, 1 blast, and 1 other card, I can maindeck 3 Spellskite.....which of course frees up 3 slots in the board. I certainly would not play without an LED though. It's synergy with so many parts of the deck is key.
I am not a fan of the Bomberman sideboard route......it certainly doesn't shore up our worst matchs up like zoo or junk. I also question the Magus of the Moon option.....why not blood moon? Sure makes it more useful against decks like Zoo.....Magus is just too easy to get rid of really.
I'd love to play the deck online, but don't have the money to spend anymore for online cards. Maybe 1 day if I sell my extra recruiters. I do have Imperial Painter built online and have won my fair share of daily events with it......some days I wish my online stuff even remotely rivaled my real life collection.
Later EddieO
This deck is looking very solid right now in the metagame. I like the Show and Tell package against decks that give us the most trouble (like chalice stompy decks and revokers and null rods out of the board), but decks like Junk and Team America that present a stronger force in the metagame and are not great matchups are not affected by the Show and Tell package in the same way. I am starting to think that a playset of Magus of the Moon might be beneficial to put in the SB due to the popularity of Team America right now. Resolving one against them is gg if you do it early enough and if they don't run certain less-used removal. We should really punish them for running no basics since we have the tools to do so.
Piloted this deck to a 4th place finish last night (small tournament, 22 people).
I ran 1 Tormod's Crypt and 4 Mental Misstep in the main.
Round 1 vs Sneaky Show
G1. He has a turn 1 Emrakul.
G2. I get Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack and aggro him out.
G3. I mill him out with Tormod's Crypt on the stack.
1-0 (2-1)
Round 2 vs Tezz Affnity
G1. I resolve Goblin Welder and melt all his robots. I combo shortly after.
G2. I get a turn 2 Show and Tell into Emrakul.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 3 vs Combo Elves
G1. He drops too many dudes for me to handle.
G2. Repeat.
2-1 (4-3)
Round 4 vs GW Maverick
G1. I nut draw him.
G2. How does GW beat combo anyway?
3-1 (6-3)
All in all I'm pleased with the deck. I feel like I didn't stand a chance against Elves just because they come out of the gates so quickly.
LEDs - I still like them =)
Transmute art. in standard build? in my testing it was usually an entomb resulting into unbearable board disadvantage
dropped 1 force 2 diverts, I'm on 3x Fow, 3x Misstep, 3x pyro now, feels fine but its a game-costing life hazard sometimes with the Tombs
Bomberman seems weak without the recruiters and even with them its weird and screws manabase... btw. not boarding Maguses against Gerry T? loss well deserved
Spellskite - sounds perfect, anybody tested it?
S&T - I don't like it, but see no better option, I'm thinking about Magus & spellskites, "ignoring" the Zoo and burn
Elves? - play LEDs, be faster ; )
=======
Maubert Noham decktech at BOM V. that guy is incredible, plays the same no matter what, just tunes the list though time, unfortunately finished around 100. this time.. but for your inspiration a control take on UR painter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lgnfk0ZoT4
If Transmute Artifact is resulting in board disadvantage for you, you might be playing it wrong. The sacrifice is on resolution, not part of the casting cost. So if it gets countered, it's only a 1-for-1.
Entombing robots is just one of Transmute's many uses. It works best when paired with Grim Monolith, which, granted, is not as fast as LED, but it doesn't force you to discard your protection when comboing off.
Untapped Monolith + Transmute Artifact + 1UU = put a Wurmcoil Engine into play
Untapped Monolith + (Painter or Grindstone in play) + Transmute Artifact + UU = you win in your opponent's next draw step
keys - I understand it well, its monoliths natural companion and awesome of course, I mean standard Caleb list entombing combo pieces
Naturally if you're going to be running Transmute Artifact it's assumed you aren't running a build like that; it simply can't support it. You have to have some sort of sacrificial artifacts so you don't end up generating card disadvantage like that, hence for Grim Monoliths. It'd be terrible if you had absolutely no decent means of tinkering for 0-1 with it.
And I understand that, it was just short comment on EddieO list previous page
I've top 8ed GP side-event last Sunday, 5-0+double ID and lost my 350 euro FBB Volcanics dream by luck and stupidity with Zenith-Zoo I've beaten in swiss, maybe its time to share the list:
// Lands
3 [MR] Seat of the Synod
3 [MR] Great Furnace
2 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [A] Island (2)
1 [B] Mountain (3)
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [UL] Goblin Welder
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
3 [IA] Pyroblast
3 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NPH] Mental Misstep
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [TE] Intuition
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan
SB: 4 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 3 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 2 [B] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [AL] Force of Will
Three questions as I'm trying to wrap my head around this deck:
-Is there a call (and space) for Misdirection, given the resurgence in targeted discard?
-What matchups does a transformational sideboard help against? I seem to want room for Merfolk hate in Llawan and extra blasts, BUG hate in Magus, and still want room for grave hate. Can't fit it all...
-The Trinks slots MD...is it worth retaining tutors there, or is that the space for extra removal/counters?
Thanks,
--->DJ
The transformational sideboard is against one of the two things Painter loses to:
-Redundant amounts of removal
-Your opponent playing Emrakul/Progenitus
Redundant amounts of removal are pretty poor against Emrakul. You bring it in againt Zoo and other removal-heavy decks.
1, not much, personally I see Misdirection as a too much of disadvantage, same with Force, which is a necessary evil half time
2, I board in against all kinds of Thresh, Team America, B/W aggro, non-zenith Zoo, Counter balance, Dragon Stompy, Stax, sometimes even against B/W control if i know they play extirpate, and only Emrakuls against S&T and mirror, usually it goes -3 Painter, -3 Grindstone, -3 LED, -1 Mox Opal or -4 Welder, -2 LED, -1 Grindstone and various -1
you don't need Llawan against merfolk your average draw is superior and only card that hurts you is Energy Flux, Llawan is a nice tech though but dies to same as painter, maybe with spellskites... I'm thinking about abandoning GY hate to 1 crypt or entirely, I don't need it against Dredge and it does not help with sneak attack, and placing a Phyrexian Metamorph and more needles
3, Trinkets are best as a shuffle effect unless you have toolkit for them
The problem with Zoo, Maverick, Bant is, they all play 4xKotr and just having one in hand grants them victory (S&T Kotr, rotate in Karakas their turn), so you have to S&T as fast as possible (T4 too late) and hope they don't have it, actually the rational chances of success are lesser than with painter plan
Hey guys,
I top 8ed GP Providence with this deck, and here is what I was matched up against:
1 Bye
2 Bye
3 Bye
4 W 2-0 U/R Dreadstill
5 W 2-0 NO Bant
6 W 2-1 Merfolk
7 W 2-0 Team Italia
8 W 2-0 Junk
9 W 2-0 Merfolk
10 L 1-2 NO RUG
11 W 2-1 Stoneforge Bant
12 L 1-2 Stoneforge Bant
13 W 2-1 Dredge (non-LED)
14 W 2-1 Merfolk
15 ID
Top 8
L 0-2 BUGstill
The deck was awesome, and I would not have done anything different with the list. Other than the top 8, my losses were very close game 3's. Most of my wins were by pretty large margins except for really close game 3's in rounds 6, 11, and 14. Props to all the cool dudes I played against; all of my opponents were great players and good sports, and I hope to see them again in future tournaments.
A few notable plays and situations:
-The Round 8 Junk player was on the play in Game 2 and played land, Mox, Hymn, and I Misdirected his Hymn, setting him down to one card. The game was pretty much over at that point.\
-In Round 11 Game 3, I was facing a Revoker naming Grindstone and a Goyf with a Sword of Feast and Famine. I had Painter naming blue and Grindstone in play with 4 mana available. I Intuitioned for 3 Llawans and played her on the following turn, 2 turns before I was facing lethal. I then won quickly with Grindstone
-In Round 13 Game 3 I had a Welder + Crypt online, and that combination absolutely destroyed my opponent.
-The top 8 showed that 4 maindeck Deed is such a beating, and the top 8 field as a whole contained some relatively difficult matchups. I might have been able to get Game 2 with Blood Moon if I could hit a third land, but the land never came.
I have to go to class, but I will mentionhow I felt about matchups later today. Check out my list on the Magic site. I would say the only really interesting thing about the list was 3 Llawan and 4 Bloodmoon in the board, and 1 maindeck Transmute Artifact proved to be awesome.
Last edited by Patrunkenphat7; 05-31-2011 at 10:16 AM.
Congrats. About time somebody got the memo that only 1 LED is the right play. Glad it worked!
Patrunkenphat7, congrats!
Did cutting LEDs matter when racing, or was the extra permission more important?
I think you should add Monoliths, Wurmcoil and more Transmutes, but that's just me ;). If you've ever played against a deck with multiple Progenitus (e.g. NO Show, Sneak and Show), having a maindeck secondary win condition is huge. The surprise factor is also pretty nice when opponents go all in on Needle/Revoker naming Grindstone.
I don't really agree with SB Llawan, since Merfolk is already a very winnable matchup, and as a combo with Painter it's just not all that powerful. Ensnaring Bridge is better since it's tutorable with Transmute, and recurrable with Welder.
I didn't get to go to GP Prov, but I did split top 4 at a tournament over the weekend with this list going 5-1-1 (my one loss was against Infect pump...):
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Opal (I'm currently testing out 1 LED instead of 1 Opal)
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
3 Transmute Artifact
2 Intuition
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Great Furnace
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island
Sideboard:
3 Meta spot: Magus of the Moon / Spellskite (I played with Blood Moons because I didn't have Maguses, but I think the red men are better since you might need to attack for the win if you can't find your combo pieces)
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Misdirection
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Duplicant
Has anyone tried Tezz as an alternate win con? It's a trump agasint Emrakul, grabs bridge then ramps up to attacking with 5/5s, and tutors for the combo.
Calls for banning are almost always the scrubs way out. Real men view a challenge as something to overcome, a puzzle to solve, an opportunity to be had, and the source of evolution.
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