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Thread: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

  1. #1
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    [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    This is a companion to the UW(x) Landstill thread, but is focused on the versions of Landstill that:
    1) use white as a support color, if that;
    2) typically incorporate Pernicious Deed as part of their control suite.

    Examples include BHWC/BHWW Landstill, Tacosnape's 4c list and others.


    In the coming days, this opening post will be developed with lists, questions for discussion, strategic and tactical observations, relevant tournament results and other things that make for a quality opening post in this here forum. Stay tuned!


    Tacosnape's U/b/g/w list:

    4 Tundra
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Tropical Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Flooded Strand
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Nantuko Monestary

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    3 Jace Beleren
    1 Life From The Loam

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Pernicious Deed
    3 Diabolic Edict

    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterspell
    3 Stifle

    1 Crime // Punishment
    1 Extirpate

    Sideboard:
    4 Meddling Mage
    4 Blue Elemental Blast
    3 Extirpate
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Krosan Grip

    Team Bitches & Hoes West Coast (now World Wide) Landstill Primer

    BHWC/BHWW Landstill
    (Top 8 GenCon 2006)

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    3 Fact or Fiction
    3 Stifle

    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterspell

    4 Pernicious Deed
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Disenchant
    2 Crucible of Worlds

    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Nantuko Monastery
    3 Wasteland
    1 Plains

    Sideboard
    4 Blue Elemental Blast
    4 Engineered Plague
    4 Meddling Mage
    3 Duress

  2. #2
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    "Agh my time has come" - Referance to snl celebrity jeapordy.

    oh and also "Edit" Second! first if you dont count the intro!

    That said great intro bardo and to point out both those still lists are excellent.

    I really like taco's list as it abuses the black splash more, although it does give up the raw dog power of deed, it is much better in alot of cases then 99.99% of the lists you will see here.

    As for the team list it does look a bit outdated to me. 2 md disenchant I think backs my argument, but I could be wrong.

    A personal taste for me is the 4c_wish_still that der/wasteland play. It abuses right about everything one can abuse and has a pretty fair matchup against the field, - dragon stompy and moon thresh. Two decks that feel like shifts in the metagame this winter, but are slowly being drowned as people just don't fall for blood moon anymore.

    For referance heres der/ wasteland's list.

    // Lands
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [UNH] Island
    1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
    1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
    1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
    1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
    1 [UNH] Plains
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [B] Savannah
    1 [B] Scrubland
    1 [B] Tropical Island
    4 [B] Tundra
    2 [B] Underground Sea
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    2 [ON] Windswept Heath
    1 [FUT] Tolaria West

    // Creatures
    1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

    // Spells
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    4 [IA] Counterspell
    1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
    2 [JU] Cunning Wish
    2 [SC] Decree of Justice
    2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    2 [TE] Humility
    1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    4 [AP] Pernicious Deed
    4 [OD] Standstill
    4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
    SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
    SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
    SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
    SB: 1 [RAV] Seed Spark
    SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact

    The one thing I really enjoy about this list is humility. I can personally tell you that humility not only wins games, but it can create huge virtual card advantage just by pulling a cycling speed wrath with doj the very next turn IF even neccesary. As far as general direction of the deck I don't like the recently added 4th deed to the md. It does bring a bit more consistency, but it sacrifices speed which isn't something the deck needs in my opinion. Landstill as a general principle is all about consistency already and taking away 2 early tempo killers like spell snare for a 3 drop removal spell and I believe an extra land is almost not even worth it to me.

    Now I don't mean to be negative at all, because this deck is amazing and has only done me well in games I thought were unwinnable for the landstill archtype as a whole.

    That said I hope I gave der/ wasteland's list the mad props they deserve.

  3. #3

    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    I use to play landstil too, but I don't like these lists for many reasons.

    Tacosnape's U/b/g/w list:

    The manabase is quite regular, 6 fetch, 4x duals, no basic land and 6 colorless land. Good

    then....

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    3 Jace Beleren
    1 Life From The Loam

    I can't understand these choices.

    Jace Beleren is just an utility, it allows us and our opponent to draw and it can make opponent's tarmogoyf bigger. The matter is: why are we playing jace? Maybe because we need to draw? then it's better to play fact or fiction. maybe because we need a finisher? Jace isn't the best finisher we can find. Maybe I'm dull and I can't see how strong jace is in this deck, but I don't like it and that's it.

    About Life from the Loam. Some people prefer it to crucible of Worlds. The question is: why?
    Life from the loam is "eternal", we can dredge and return it in hand but if we dredge we can't draw but as we are a control deck we must draw as much as we can.
    "if life from the loam is countered or forced to discard, we can play it from grave". Land recursion isn't such important in this deck. It is an utility and that means we can win even without lftl or crucible. lftl or crucible help us with mana screw and are useful to make manlands return in play, but it isn't a major problem. So I think it isn't worth to lose a strong card like crucible to keep a card that isn't good in this deck, only because we are afraid that the opponent can discard or counter it.

    We have 3 diabolic edict in addition to stp. This is a choice, I think, referred to an aggro meta. Landstill suffers against aggro, so I'm agree with it

    In the end, I see 1xExtirpate . Is this a personal tech, isn't it?


    BHWC/BHWW Landstill
    (Top 8 GenCon 2006)


    As to me this list is quite better, even if some questionables points like:

    -disenchant main deck(I think it's against needle, so, as to me, it's better e.e and crime\punishment),
    -mono plains (is it against magus of the moon?)
    -the third nantuko, that is useless in the early and middle game.


    I think that both these list havenět an alternative finisher other then manlands.

    What about tarmogoyf? and tombstalker? The first is quick and big, a good shield and great beater. The second is a bit slower but it can fly and sometimes it is even bigger.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Andr3a; 05-01-2008 at 06:06 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Andr3a View Post
    As to me this list is quite better, even if some questionables points like:

    -disenchant main deck(I think it's against needle, so, as to me, it's better e.e and crime\punishment),
    -mono plains (is it against magus of the moon?)
    -the third nantuko, that is useless in the early and middle game.


    I think that both these list havenět an alternative finisher other then manlands.

    What about tarmogoyf? and tombstalker? The first is quick and big, a good shield and great beater. The second is a bit slower but it can fly and sometimes it is even bigger.

    What do you think?
    This list was from 2006 Gencon and Tarmogoyf and Magus of the Moon did not exist. This list is quite outdated and would need an overhaul to match up with the current metagame.

  5. #5
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Because I haven't had a lot of opportunity to play lately, and I've done some development with the deck that I think can benefit the masses playing Landstill, I'd like to post my most recent list for discussion, as well. It's not the stereotypical list, by any means, and I expect some questions on my card choices, so I'll attempt to explain them as best as I can. So here it is:

    EPIC UBg Landstill - Adam Barnello

    4 Underground Sea
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Wasteland

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    2 Jace Beleren
    1 Life From The Loam

    3 Vendetta
    4 Pernicious Deed
    2 Diabolic Edict
    1 Crime // Punishment

    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterspell
    3 Stifle
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Moment's Peace

    Sideboard - (Tuned to Metagame):
    4 Blue Elemental Blast
    3 Extirpate
    3 Vedalken Shackles
    3 Engineered Plague

    The cards I'm sure that stand out in that list are Vendetta and Moment's Peace. So here's why.

    Vendetta - Even with 8 Fetchlands, I hate having to rely on having one in play on turn 1 for Ghastly Demise to be able to kill Goblin Lackey. You're basically utilizing a card (GD) that is terrible early, and excellent mid to late game. Why? I'm under the impression, and I don't think I'm wrong, that Landstill has one of the best late games out of any deck in Legacy. You don't need the boost there, you need it early, when you're trying to stabalize and drag the game into the lategame, where you dominate. So I've used Vendetta, which is still not StP, but better early than GD. The card isn't without flaws. It's difficult to adequately deal with a large-ish Goyf with Vendetta. However, access to Deed, Punishment, and Spell Snare takes care of that, as does Shackles from the board. Neither GD nor Vendetta can deal with Doran or Tombstalker, so that point is moot.

    Moment's Peace (aka 2x Time Walk) - This works under the same principle as Vendetta; that Landstill is best suited to play the long game. Moment's Peace buys you a million turns. Well, 4, but that's plenty. If any of you remember playing Standard and Extended when Wake was big, you can recall how frustrating it was to have to fight through multiple Fogs. Now, Wake was a little better at capitalizing on those fogs, because of DoJ, but we have the excellent Pernicious Deed to mop the floor, which is similar in overall effect.

    The one thing I'm having issues with in this deck is the lack of win conditions. However, I don't think saying "add 4 goyf" is the right solution. I'd like to see some kind of "real" win condition in the deck that exploits something other than the combat step, and isn't Jace - who is awesome, despite what you may have heard. I'll get to that in a second. I've been strongly considering the following changes to the deck:

    -2 Spell Snare
    -1 Crime//Punishment
    -1 Stifle
    -1 Wasteland

    +3 Intuition
    +1 Mindslaver
    +1 Academy Ruins

    This would allow me to effectively Intuition for the Slave lock, by getting Ruins, LftL, Slaver. I've never had an issue with throwing a million land in play, and I think the ability to lock someone with Mindslaver is something this format is desperately lacking. It's worth considering, anyway.

    On Jace - The naysayers are correct when they assume that he replaces the FoFs. They are incorrect if they think he provides card advantage to the opponent. There are three things Jace can do, all of which are desirable for Landstill:

    1) He can ramp up when you're in control of the board, and win the game on his own. This is very, very rarely the way to use him in this deck.
    2) He can go -1, -1, +2 over and over again, netting you three cards to your opponent's one card every cycle. This is the way you want to play with him. It's a permanent source of card advantage, and if you use him this way for more than a few turns, it's pretty friggin hard to lose the game.
    3) He cantrips and then they kill it, providing you with a fog. That's fine, you've just invested no cards into survivng one more turn towards your goal of the lategame.

    He's good folks. I wouldn't lie to you about it.

  6. #6
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Vendetta
    If this is solely intended as a better out to Goblin Lackey and to survive the early game, wouldn't Innocent Blood be better? It still deals with creatures early but doesn't hit you for infinite later in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Intuition
    I feel as if Intuition could be pretty good in Landstill, especially since it allows you to play a mini-toolbox via Life from the Loam [1 Wasteland, 1 Academy Ruins, 1 Engineered Explsoves etc.] and because it is pretty broken in conjunction with Moment's Peace (maybe add the third one?).
    I'm not sure if Mind Slaver is maindeck material though (stuff that's only good in the lategame is always borderline winmore - especially if there are no applications for the earlygame) - seems way too clunky, maybe in the board for the control mirrors?

    Maybe try something along these lines:

    -2 Spell Snare
    -1 Crime//Punishment
    -1 Stifle
    -3 Vendetta
    -1 Land (Underground Sea | Tropical Island | Island)

    +3 Innocent Blood
    +3 Intuition
    +1 Academy Ruins
    +1 Engineered Explosives

    I'm also not too fond of 2 Stifles... I have never really liked them and so I'm probably biased, but two seems like the worst possible number you could be running, especially since you want them early or never. You could possibly cut them totally for Moment's Peace n°3 and another removal or try to fit the third one back in.

    Variant 1:
    -2 Stifle
    +1 Moment's Peace
    +1 Vedalken Shackles (?)

    Variant 2:
    -1 Diabolic Edict (easiest cut slot as you already have quite a lot of removal)
    +1 Stifle

    Variant 3:
    -2 Diabolic Edict
    +1 Stifle
    +1 Moment's Peace

    I like that last variant most: you still play 8 'hard' removal spells (3 Innocent Blood, 1 Engineered Explosives, 4 Pernicious Deed) and have a terrific lategame-removal-plan via Intuition as well as having access to more tempo cards than either of the variants above (3 Stifle, 3 Moment's Peace).
    Team SPOD - ...land of the brave...

  7. #7
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    There's two reasons I hate Innocent Blood.

    1 - It's a Sorcery. Yuck. If I was going to play Sorcery Speed removal, why would I play Diabolic Edict over Chainer's Edict.
    2 - Vendetta targets, which is something I actually do want out of my StP replacement. Obviously Turn 1 Lackey on the draw is important to consider, which is why it's 1cc, but it's not the only consideration. I'd still like to be able to kill SGC, for example, since it's harder to Deed away, and neither Innocent Blood nor Edict will take care of it. I'd like to be the one deciding which creatures I kill, if you know what I mean.

  8. #8
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    I know it's not Vendetta, but if we're talking early removal, perhaps Funeral Charm? I mean, the opposing creature would have to have an ass of one, obviously. It's pretty versatile.
    "There's a legend round here. A killer buried, but not dead."

  9. #9
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    This thread definately shouldn't degrade into a discussion on what the best 1cc black removal spell is, but let's put it this way. In my eyes, there are a few options. I'll list the pros and cons of them here:

    Darkblast - Kills Lackey and Confidant, etc. Uncounterable. Unable to deal with bigger than X/1 guy.
    Deathmark - Kills Goyf for 1. Doesn't kill Lackey. Narrow. Sorcery Speed.
    Funeral Charm - Versatile, but kills only X/1s.
    Ghastly Demise - Dependant on Graveyard, can't kill black creatures.
    Innocent Blood - Untargetted, which is both a pro and con. Sorcery Speed.
    Lose Hope - Offers card selection. Can only kill X/1s.
    Paralyze - Tempo based, slows big guys down a TON. Sorcery speed, Grip-able.
    Vendetta - Can't kill black creatures, life cost.

    To me, the best two are Demise and Vendetta. It's a question of reliability vs. drawback, and once again in my opinion, Landstill is better equipped to use Vendetta. I think Demise is better in Thresh, though.

  10. #10
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    I really think Moment's Peace is is a solid choice. Considering the Top Eight list that placed well at Gen-Con with Crucible, how about one (or several) Constant Mists? It always seems to be played down on paper, but when that gets going (especially against aggro), there in't much they can do for more than a few turns. I mean, if you're going to maintain three open mana to flash it back anyways, you might as well leave yourself one more open until you find an answer.

    The only downside (which is plausible) of Constant Mists is that it keeps you set back on your land count. That can be a problem if you're playing control, and especially with Shackles and Deed trying to pick up goods.

    Fog in nature is a Time Walk of sorts, so I can see where Moment's Peace comes in handy. While it gets you to four lands with no combat damage in sight, it does however put you back on Brainstorm and other Instant capabilities until you get there because you need to keep that mana open. Then you'd have to wait a turn to cast Deed and another to (probably) use it.

    Has that ever been an issue for you or not?
    "There's a legend round here. A killer buried, but not dead."

  11. #11
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Moment's Peace isn't really the turn 2, turn 3 play. It's more like the turn 4, turn 6 play. Usually you have plenty of mana open.

  12. #12
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    There's also Snuff Out. It doesn't feel like a Landstill card very much, but then neither does Vendetta. Snuff Out has the following advantages:

    - Rather than , it costs
    - Costs you less life when killing a big Goyf or Terravore or Countryside Crusher or Phyrexian Dreadnought or (what else?)
    - Can be hardcast to not cost you any life
    - FWIW: Counterbalance

    and the following disadvantages:

    - Costs you more life when killing anything else (3 more, in Lackey's case)

    Also, if you want to run Funeral Charm in Landstill then Piracy Charm is better, but I suggest you don't want to use either. (MUC doesn't even use Piracy Charm for FSM's sake, and their options for removal are a lot more limited.)

    Is a singleton Wasteland better than a singleton Dust Bowl?
    SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
    SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent

  13. #13

    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    I use such a list

    4 swords to plowshares
    4 standstill
    2 crucible of worlds
    3 cunning wish
    4 pernicious deed
    3 stifle
    4 counterspell
    4 force of will
    3 brainstorm
    2 fact or fiction
    3 tombstalker
    4 mishras factory
    3 flooded strand
    3 polluted delta
    1 island
    4 wasteland
    2 tundra
    1 scrubland
    3 tropical island
    3 underground sea

    Sideboard:
    3 extirpate
    2 blue elemrntal blast
    2 hydroblast
    1 ghostly demise
    1 enlightened tutor
    1 pulse of the fields
    1 slaughter pact
    1 disenchant
    3 engeneered plague

    This is a good ballanced build.
    I use Tombstalkers instead of Tarmogoyfs becouse
    1) They remove cards for cunning wish!
    2) They make other tarmos and terravores smaller
    3) They have flying
    4) They are black
    5) They do not die with DEED!!!

    Cunning Wish + Tombstalker is a great small combo try it!
    1 island+ cunning with kill blood moon and extirpate loam
    cunning wish+ tutor= crucible, deed, standstill, plague
    cunning wish+ pact kill magus of the moon

  14. #14

    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    I use such a list

    4 swords to plowshares
    4 standstill
    2 crucible of worlds
    3 cunning wish
    4 pernicious deed
    3 stifle
    4 counterspell
    4 force of will
    3 brainstorm
    2 fact or fiction
    3 tombstalker
    4 mishras factory
    3 flooded strand
    3 polluted delta
    1 island
    4 wasteland
    2 tundra
    1 scrubland
    3 tropical island
    3 underground sea

    Sideboard:
    3 extirpate
    2 blue elemrntal blast
    2 hydroblast
    1 ghostly demise
    1 enlightened tutor
    1 pulse of the fields
    1 slaughter pact
    1 disenchant
    3 engeneered plague

    This is a good ballanced build.
    I use Tombstalkers instead of Tarmogoyfs becouse
    1) They remove cards for cunning wish!
    2) They make other tarmos and terravores smaller
    3) They have flying
    4) They are black
    5) They do not die with DEED!!!

    Cunning Wish + Tombstalker is a great small combo try it!
    1 island+ cunning with kill blood moon and extirpate loam
    cunning wish+ tutor= crucible, deed, standstill, plague
    cunning wish+ pact kill magus of the moon
    tombstalker is great in many cases because it cant be blocked most of the time and it is a 5/5 but it still the fact that most of the time casting it once is practically impossible untill turn 5-6 and by then you should have the lock down and it makes tombstalker a win more card, also tombstalker it hard to cast more than once, it forces you to have double black, and with all the wastelands running around it is really easy to keep you off double black and unless your going nutz and dropping cards in your graveyard like crazy your not gonna have alot to remove for the second one when they swords your tombstalker. tombstalker would be great in decks that are more black heavy and dont have an amazing late game as it is but when it comes to it, its a dead card in the start of hand and your just helping the part of the match that is already good as it is, if you have problems winning lategames then you obviously arnt playing the deck right. the deck has problems with the early game, everyone knows that, that is why goyf is a better choice, you dont need double black and it comes out on turn 2 when you need the creature the most. also when it comes to it the 2 main matchups in legacy.... threshold.... goblins. Threshold has easy ways to deal with tombstalker just as it is for goyf but if you play a goyf early they dont have as many opportunities as they would after they draw 10 more cards by the time you play stalker. and they can out race your tombstalker anywaze. And goblins, well they can kill you by the time you get stalker out. try goyf out it works alot better.

    If you intend to continue posting in the DtB forum, it is imperative that you learn to use the shift key and utilize proper grammar. Please clean this post up - if you intend to spend the time writing out a response, have the pride to do it well. ~ Nightmare

  15. #15
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Darkblast - Kills Lackey and Confidant, etc. Uncounterable. Unable to deal with bigger than X/1 guy.
    I'd just like to point out that if you have 2 black sources it can take out an X/2. Usually by playing it during your upkeep, dredging, and playing again. It is possible to take out bigger creatures, but rarely feasible.

  16. #16
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    // Lands
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    2 [R] Underground Sea
    4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory
    3 [U] Tropical Island
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    2 [7E] Island
    1 [MOR] Mutavault
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
    1 [US] Swamp
    1 [DK] Maze of Ith

    // Spells
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    3 [TE] Intuition
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    3 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
    3 [SC] Stifle
    4 [OD] Innocent Blood
    4 [OD] Standstill
    4 [PR] Counterspell
    1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
    1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    3 [AP] Pernicious Deed

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [OD] Moment's Peace
    SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
    SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize

    My list, tweaked to beat have a good matchup against Loam and Threshold. This explains the Tormod's Crypt which can be fetched by Intuition and the sideboard. Innocent Blood is there for Mongeese and Deed is pretty amazing against Threshold as well. This pretty much sums up the Innocent Blood vs. Vendetta debate as well I think. If Threshold is prevalent play Innocent Blood, if not play Vendetta.

    Intuition provides you with a huge degree of inevitability, very much like the way Jace does for other versions. In the lategame Cephalid Coliseum just draws you a ton of cards. But what I really like about Intuition is that it's so versatile. I search for 3 FoW's or 3 Vedalken Shackles all the time. Against graveyard reliant decks you are not helpless anymore as you can just recur Tormods Crypt, by searching Loam+Ruins+Crypt.

    Reasoning behind the Sower of Temptation is that opponents will likely board out their creature removal, thus Sower will shine. Anyway, you can always protect it if necessary.

    The deck has been quite amazing to me, but I really think Landstill is a great choice right now no matter what version you play.
    That said, I would love to hear some comments especially about the manabase. Is it optimal right now or do I need some tweaking?

  17. #17
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    I am confused by the apparent trend of cutting Fact or Fiction. Whenever I play Landstill, it is invariably because I want to play with that card. Landstill is only viable because it has a powerful draw engine, and I think Fact is almost as important in this regard as Standstill itself.

    But then, I haven't found it necessary to take up room in the deck with recursion engines, toolboxes, or other things that just serve to improve the deck's inevitability. My Landstill lists always look something like this:

    //11
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Standstill
    3x Fact or Fiction

    //8
    4x Force of Will
    4x Counterspell

    //6
    4x Tarmogoyf
    2x Mystic Enforcer

    //10
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Pernicious Deed
    2x Diabolic Edict

    //25
    3x Mishra's Factory
    2x Nantuko Monastery

    4x Polluted Delta
    4x Flooded Strand
    4x Tropical Island
    4x Tundra
    3x Underground Sea
    1x Scrubland

    lol Mystic Enforcer, right? My favorite kind of board control is the kind that cracks for six. I also like to sideboard Control Magic in this deck.
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  18. #18
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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by A Legend View Post
    I really think Moment's Peace is is a solid choice. Considering the Top Eight list that placed well at Gen-Con with Crucible, how about one (or several) Constant Mists? It always seems to be played down on paper, but when that gets going (especially against aggro), there in't much they can do for more than a few turns. I mean, if you're going to maintain three open mana to flash it back anyways, you might as well leave yourself one more open until you find an answer.

    The only downside (which is plausible) of Constant Mists is that it keeps you set back on your land count. That can be a problem if you're playing control, and especially with Shackles and Deed trying to pick up goods.

    Fog in nature is a Time Walk of sorts, so I can see where Moment's Peace comes in handy. While it gets you to four lands with no combat damage in sight, it does however put you back on Brainstorm and other Instant capabilities until you get there because you need to keep that mana open. Then you'd have to wait a turn to cast Deed and another to (probably) use it.

    Has that ever been an issue for you or not?
    I got to agree with you about Moments Peace. That card is hot in this deck. However, Constant Mists isn't. The reason is is that Moments Peace is guaranteed to drag the game into the late game by providing you with additional land drops. However, Constant Mists, though it can create a lock, doesn't do that. And it Landstill, locks are generally win more. If it gets to the point were you have Constant Mists in hand and Crucible in play, and enough mana to replay mists every turn, you've probably won.

    However, I'm not loving all the other random "Tech" that I suddenly see running around.
    Intuition isn't good in this deck, people. Intuition for FoW is an AWFUL play. You're looking at this in the long game. If you IT for FoW, you have, most likely, ZERO Force of Wills left in your deck. Same goes for Deed and the like. Intuition is only good with Loam, but even then it seems you're devoting a lot of space to a toolbox. Don't make this enchantress.

    Now, onto removal.
    Let's count what you already, most likely, run:
    3-4x Deed
    2-3x Edict
    0-3x EE

    Since you already have a ridiculous amount of late game removal, I see very little reason not to play Innocent Blood over Vendetta, at least in a version that play EE.

    Mystic Enforcer is an interesting wincon that deserves testing. I don't like Stalker because it's often smaller than Goyf and can't come down early to help you stabilize, which, for me, is the main role of Goyf in this deck.

    EDIT:
    What do you guys think of something like 2 Krosan Grip main? It doesn't seem dead in any MUs. It hits Humility/Deed/EE against Landstill, Balance and Blood Moon against Thresh, Vial against Goblins, Serenity/LED against Tendrils, and Blood Moon/3Sphere/Chalice against Dragon Stompy. It actually seems very strong.
    Last edited by Mental; 05-02-2008 at 02:26 AM.

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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    How is Intuition for 3 FoW an awful play? That seriously makes NO SENSE at all. It's not the reason Intuition is in the deck at all, I was just illustrating a purpose it might fill. Actually, Intuition for 3 FoW might completely lock up a game where you are in control. Also, it is actually stupid not to make the play if your opponent is combo-ing out or something. Then it's just nice to have an additional 3 counters. It doesn't matter what is left in your library if it makes you win the game.

    All that aside, it's actually a metagame call as I explained, as there is just a lot of Loam decks floating around here, and Intuition for Loam+Ruins+Crypt just locks up that game.

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    Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    How is Intuition for 3 FoW an awful play? That seriously makes NO SENSE at all. It's not the reason Intuition is in the deck at all, I was just illustrating a purpose it might fill. Actually, Intuition for 3 FoW might completely lock up a game where you are in control. Also, it is actually stupid not to make the play if your opponent is combo-ing out or something. Then it's just nice to have an additional 3 counters. It doesn't matter what is left in your library if it makes you win the game.
    Because if even if your FoW resolves, you're still never going to draw another one in the entire game. 4 Counterspell Landstill isn't too strong, I hear.

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