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Thread: [Deck] Angel Stompy

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    [Deck] Angel Stompy

    INTRO:
    The following is a project I've been working on since about a month before September's B/R changes. I never released the list, as I wanted to do a more thorough matchup analysis for it, which never happened due to the major changes to the format. The deck was exceedingly strong then, and it won me a Mana Drain in a local tournament, facing powerhouse opposition like MUD, Dragon, and Zilla Stompy.

    With the B/R changes, the deck lost only one card, that being Skullclamp. It was a rather vital piece to the deck's strategy, as it was its sole draw engine. While I felt this loss could likely be compensated in the new format, my attention was turned to other projects during September and October, being that the original assumption by many (including myself) was that the available artifact accelleration was likely to give rise to a format dominated by combo, which is Angel Stompy's least favorite decktype to face.

    Recent months of tournament data have proven the inaccuracy of this original assessment, and Ezrengel's Turbo-Angel thread reminded me that Angel Stompy might have some merit once more. I was still worried about the loss of Skullclamp, but Ezrengel's list was running Sword of Fire and Ice as an ostensible replacement, much like RG survival's solution to the same conundrum. I had doubts, but testing proved that the Sword was an excellent call. It is an absolute powerhouse in the deck, likely moreso than any other deck I've ever tested it in, including RG Survival. Not only did it help to shore up the deck's draw problem, but it provided more robustness to its creatures, a stronger game against RG Survival and Goblins, the ability to protect threats from Tradewind Bounce, and, most importantly, provided another means of creature destruction; one of my biggest concerns with the original build outside of the combo matchup. The reason that I say it is likely stronger in this build than in any other I've tested is because with 7 double-mana sources, the deck can commonly and consistently cast and equip a Sword by turn 3. Good times.

    Inspired by ObFreely's assertion that Mask of Memory was a powerful draw engine for mono-white, I've been testing it as well, also to great effect. The deck currently runs 3 Swords and 3 Masks, giving it an insanely strong and consistent draw engine. It is not at all uncommon to outdraw control builds running the Intuition/AK engine with this build. Combined with massive draw, the deck's extreme threat density gives it a strong game against both control and aggro.

    Lastly, because of the heavy slant towards broken artifacts and enchantments in the new format, the revised build, unlike its predecessor, is running maindecked Disenchants. Interestingly, despite what seem like a lot of changes, the deck plays nearly identically to the way it did before the B/R changes, and if anything it is more consistently brutal than before.

    On to the decklist, then card analysis and matchups:

    //NAME: UPDATED Legacy Angel Stompy (Current as of 6/10/06)
    // Mana
    16 Plains
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Chrome Mox
    // Beats
    4 Mother of Runes
    2 Savannah Lions
    4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    4 Silver Knight
    4 Soltari Priest
    4 Exalted Angel
    // Control & Draw
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Disenchant
    2 Mask of Memory
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Sword of Fire and Ice
    4 Parallax Wave
    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 4 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Disenchant
    SB: 2 Rule of Law
    SB: 4 Armageddon



    //NAME: Older Legacy Angel Stompy (Current as of 2/18/06)
    // Mana
    13 Plains
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Tithe
    // Beats
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Savannah Lions
    1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    4 Silver Knight
    4 Soltari Priest
    4 Exalted Angel
    // Control & Draw
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Disenchant
    2 Mask of Memory
    3 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Sword of Fire and Ice
    3 Parallax Wave
    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 4 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Disenchant
    SB: 2 Rule of Law
    SB: 4 Armageddon


    BASIC STRATEGY ANALYSIS:
    At its very core, the deck plays like classic White Weenie in most regards: It has a very finely tuned curve, and plays an endless stream of efficiently costed threats with inherent protection or evasion abilities, until the opponent has been overwhelmed. Unlike Classic Weenie, it also has a very robust draw engine, and the ability to accelerate into real, game-ending threats in the first few turns, creating an often unrecoverable board position for the opponent as early as turn 4. This ideology is owed to JP Meyers' White Lightning concept. However, where his concept maindecks Armaggeddon and Tangle Wire, this concept replaces those control elements with a much more aggressive strategy, fundamentally more suited to the current Legacy metagame.


    CARD CHOICES:

    Manabase:

    Plains: Yup, we need those.

    Ancient Tomb, Chrome Mox: Broken mana accellerants, allowing for early resolution of Exalted Angels, Masks of Memory, Jittes, and Swords of Fire and Ice. Fundamentally important to the deck's ideology. Chrome Mox is particularly strong because of its synergy with Tithe and Armageddon, and because it allows you to play a turn 1 Morphed Angel or Sword of Fire and Ice.

    Creatures:

    Mother of Runes: Provides protection for your threats. A strong (and not atypical) play for this deck is turn 1 Mom, turn 2 Morph, turn 3 attack with Unmorphed Exalted Angel, with Mom backup. Very strong. Also, she can act as an infinite chump blocker against a lot of aggro opponents, by simply blocking and giving herself protection from the appropriate color in response.

    Savannah Lions An evasive 1cc creature that rounds out the deck's mana curve. It's a very important inclusion, because aside from Mother of Runes, it's one of the deck's only first turn drops capable of equipping and attacking by turn 2, and Mother of Runes really wants to be playing defense, not offense. Theoretically, this slot can be Soltari Foot Soldier, Suntail Hawk, or Lantern Kami, but the extra power on the Lions can be important in racing control and in winning ground wars against other aggro.

    Silver Knight: Insanely strong in this environment. Standalone defense against most weenie creature onslaughts, with Pro:Red making it highly resilient to removal. Shuts down Goblins' and Zilla Stompy's entire creature base single-handedly.

    Soltari Priest: More Pro:Red, which as previously stated, is insanely strong in the current meta. Their inherent evasion provides excellent synergy with Mask of Memory and Sword of Fire and Ice, turning your 2cc investment into an unstoppable drawing/damage machine. So good.

    In the original Angel Stompy build, this slot was reserved for Whipcorders. The biggest reason for this is because they allowed you to play a "bait and switch" game against control and burn, forcing them to guess whether or not you were playing a face down 'Corder or Angel on turn 2, and requiring them to answer it for fear that it's an Angel. While this strategy was strong, it is less so in the current format, particularly because Mana Drain is banned, which was another significant reason for running a high morph count. In the current format, Soltari Priests are certainly the better choice.

    Exalted Angel: The deck's namesake, and one of the best creatures in the format. With your mana accelleration, you can have one of these babies attacking and gaining you massive board position as early as turn 3, often protected by Mother of Runes. Simply put, she commonly creates an unrecovable position for your opponent, and against most aggro, an early Angel = "I win."

    Control & Draw:

    Swords to Plowshares: Best creature removal in the game. Check.

    Disenchant: With the high amount of artifact- and enchantment-based strategies in the current format (e.g., Crucible, Shackles, Chalice, Survival), there are very few matchups where maindecked Disenchants aren't going to be a good idea.

    Mask of Memory: Explained in the intro. One of the deck's 3(!) card advantage engines, if you include Tithe. Has excellent synergy with your Tombs and Cities, often allowing you to attack with an equipped creature as early as turn 2. On a Soltari Priest, it's an extremely resilient draw engine.

    Umezawa's Jitte: The best equipment ever printed. Singlehandedly wins games against aggro. It speeds up your clock, removes your opponent's threats, and provides additional lifegain when necessary. Particularly strong because, unlike Mask and Sword, you don't actually need to connect to benefit from its effect.

    Sword of Fire and Ice: Also explained in the intro. More card advantage, as well as enhanced creature removal. Is insanely strong in the Goblins and RG Survival matchup, as well as in Burn and ATS. So very, very savage.

    Parallax Wave: Provides mass creature removal of sorts, and allows you all kinds of interesting tricks. Not only can it rid you of pesky hard-to-remove creatures like Wild Mongrel, Psychatog and even Morphling (by responding to untargettability with Wave until they run out of mana), but it can be used to protect your own creatures from opposing removal by phasing them out in response to their being targeted. Wave is a very versatile form of removal and defense in a single package.

    Sideboard:

    Tormod's Crypt: A speedbump against Thresh, mainly, which is all you really need to stay competitive against them. Also good against Dredge Tog, Loam-based strategies, and Salavager Game.

    Pithing Needle: Pithing Needle answers Landstill's Manlands, Goblins' Vials, and Survival's Survivals and Spore Frogs, among a great many other things. The Needle simply shores up a huge number of the deck's potential weaknesses.

    Disenchant: Extreme redundancy for matchups which could otherwise be difficult. This includes but is not limited to ATS and Ravager Affinity.

    Rule of Law: Bolsters your Solidarity/Tendrils matchups.

    Armageddon: Improves your control matchup, but its strongest function is as an additional tool against Solidarity, allowing you a second means of disrupting their win, in conjunction with Rule of Law.


    CARDS NOT CHOSEN:

    Enlightened Tutor: Yup. I know the question is on your minds. Testing with Tutors was not positive at all. First, it is inherent card and tempo disadvantage, which this deck hates. Second, all of the threats you'd use it to search for you want in multiples, meaning that replacing some of them with Tutor isn't a strong strategy. Third, with as many card advantage engines already available, you typically see at least one of whatever you'd be searching for relatively early in the game. Tutor is a no-go. Don't ask.


    MATCHUP ANALYSIS:

    Goblin Sligh: Basically a bye. Goblins can win one in maybe ten matches against you, and that basically requires a turn 1 Lackey > turn 2 SGC draw, assuming you don't have an StP in your opening 7. The 8 Pro:Red creatures and 2-3 SoFIs, along with the lifegain from Angel and Jitte make this matchup extremely strong.

    Burn: A strong matchup. The Burn player is forced into a tough position, being forced to choose between killing off your threats and aiming burn at your dome. If they neglect your threats, you can race them consistently. With 8 Pro:Red threats, as well as 2-3 SoFI and the lifegain provided by Angel, this is a tough match for the Burn player to win. In theory, you could run Pariah in the board for an essential bye against this matchup, but it's already so positive it's likely not worth the space it would take up in the SB.

    Ravager: A good matchup. Your high threat and removal contingent combined with their relative lack of removal means that you've got a strong ability to win a ground war against them. Swords to Plowshares, Disenchant, Parallax Wave, and Null Rod from the board make for a positive matchup here.

    UG Madness: A good matchup. You have a much denser threatbase than they do, and plenty of removal for their threats. Sword of Fire and Ice allows for added protection and removal. Combined with Swords to Plowshares and Parallax Wave, they rarely keep threats on the table long enough to matter. Because of their almost complete lack of removal, a single significant threat resolved on your side of the table can easily be ridden to victory.

    Wayfarer White Weenie: A very good matchup. This is essentially a mirror match, except you're faster, have higher threat density, more removal, and bigger threats.

    Pox/Poxicide/MBC: Untested. I'll update with results when I have them. Note, however, that if Mono-Black's track record of suckitude against aggro holds true, this matchup should be positive in the extreme.

    RG Survival: A positive matchup. Because the vast majority of RG's removal is red-based, your creature base is extremely resilient to their removal. The only potential non-red removal they might be running is Masticore and/or Duplicant. Testing has shown that Masticore typically hits the table too late to really make a difference, and can be removed with Swords, Disenchant, or Parallax Wave. Duplicant is the other removal, and it only answers a single one of your overwhelmingly dense threats. RG Survival has classically had a weakness to fat creatures like Exalted Angel, and this is to your advantage. Further, Sword of Fire and Ice is a house in this matchup, protecting even more of your threats from their removal, and concurrently removing their own threats. Svg.

    ATS: Not thoroughly tested. Early results seem positive. A lot of what was said in the RG matchup applies here. Besides packing maindecked answers to Survival, your speed, high threat count, and high removal contingent are all strong assets here. Sword of Fire and Ice is particluarly strong here, as it grants protection from Tradewind bounce, assuming your opponent lives long enough to resolve one.

    Landstill: A difficult matchup. This matchup is rather draw dependent, and depends somewhat on the Landstill build you're facing. It's not uncommon to outdraw them, thus overwhelming their counter defense with threats is not overly difficult. Maindeck Sealt provides some defense against Disk, and is added removal against their threatbase. Parallax Wave can also protect your threats from Disk, by phasing them out in response to Disk activation. Decree of Justice from the board allows you to effectively dodge Standstill, and in fact makes it a liability for them to cast it. Armageddon is strong here as well, for obvious reasons. Overall, you have a variety of viable strategies against the Landstill opponent.

    BBS: Not thoroughly tested. I'll update with results when I have them. Note that I have a feeling a lot of what was said in the Landstill matchup analysis likely applies here as well.

    Burning Tog: Somewhat limited testing here, but early results look positive. You have plenty of removal for their Nightscape Familiars and Togs, and their FtKs are rather subpar because of your high Pro:Red count. SoFI is a beating and a half. It's not overly difficult to outdraw them and simply overwhelm them with threats.

    Belcher: Not an overly positive matchup, but not an overly difficult one either. Results here are heavily build and draw dependent. Attack their manabase with Swords (Birds) and Seals (Moxen, Petals, etc.), and remove Welders with Swords as well. Bring in Null Rod and True Believer games 2 and 3 and you have a reasonably strong shot at winning.

    Solidarity: Not good. By far and away the deck's worst matchup. Do whatever you can to resolve a Rule of Law or Armageddon games 2 and 3 and you might win. Maybe. If you see a high concentration of High Tide combo in your meta, you should either choose a different deck, dedicate 8 slots to the SB, and possibly splash blue for maindecked Meddling Mage. All things considered, it's probably not worth damaging your other matchups just to attempt to win this one with any degree of consistency.


    QUICK AND DIRTY TOURNAMENT REPORT:
    I wrote (and never released) this report shortly after using Angel Stompy to win a Mana Drain pre-September 1. While not all of it is applicable to the current build, it at least provides a basic idea of how the deck plays out against various archetypes.

    Round 1: UG Madness - Robert (Unregged) 2-0

    Game 1: 2 unmorphed Angels attacking by turn 4, one of them Skullclamped. Quick game.

    Game 2: 3 StP's deal with early Madness outlets, 2 Parallax Waves hold off the rest of his threats while my own finish the job.

    Record: 1-0-0

    Round 2: Welder MUD - Bret (LinkXwing) 0-2

    Game 1: No land in opening hand. Mull to 6, keep a decent 1 land hand for fear of mulling too low. He gets his lock on early and I draw no more land.

    Game 2: Identical to game 1, including the draws and mulls, except he has double Workshop to lock me down even faster.

    Record: 1-1-0

    Round 3: Hulk - August (Setnakt) 2-0

    Game 1: He manages to resolve a Tog and keep it on the table after Deeding away my early threats. I resolve a Parallax Wave to keep the Tog off my back for awhile, and he's forced to use his Wish for Naturalize. A cycled Decree gives me a few chump blockers to stay in the game until he can find another Wish for Berserk. Hardcast Decree for 4 looks like it will seal the deal. He has Predict and AK in hand, with no AK's in the yard. He knows he has to dig aggressively for Deed or lose next turn. He opts to cast a blind Predict, arbitrarily naming Impulse. He reveals a Deed. If he'd AK'ed instead, he likely would have won this game. Hindsight aside, I think he made the right play.

    Game 2: An amusing game. Turn 1 I cast Mom and a Crypt, which gets FoWned. Turn 2 I cast a morph, he Drains. It's a Whipcorder. Turn 3 I cast a morph, he Drains. It's a Whipcorder. Turn 4 I cast a morph, he Drains. It's a Whipcorder. Turn 5 I hardcast Eternal Dragon, He FoWns it. Turn 6 recursion of Dragon, turn 7 recast it. The game ends shortly thereafter.

    Record: 2-1-0

    Round 4: Angel Stompy - Max (Frogboy) ID

    Frogx0r and I ID, giving us both a strong chance at Top 4. Besides, we're playing literally identical decks. The mirror would have sucked.

    2-1-1

    Round 5: Zilla Stompy - Don (AngryTroll) 2-0

    Game 1: Angel Stompy does that thing it's supposed to do against Zilla Stompy - resolve an early Silver Knight to hold off the opposing threats, and ride its other threats to victory. The game ended with me at 3 life.

    Game 2: See game 1. I ended at 2 life. Close games.

    3-1-1

    Top 4: Welder MUD - Bret (LinkXwing) 2-1

    Game 1: I actually draw a hand with lands in it this time. Good times. An early Savannah Lions goes all the way.

    Game 2: It takes awhile, but he gets his lock on.

    Game 3: A long, drawn out game, and very very close at the end. I manage to survive an opposing board containing Karn, a Trinisphere, Crucible with Wasteland recursion, Triskelion, and Chalice set at 1. Barely.

    Finals: Zilla Stompy - Lewis (?) 2-1

    Game 1: Angel Stompy does the double Silver Knight thing.

    Game 2: My early threats are kinda weak. He manages to burn me out before I can get any real solid threats online.

    Game 3: Turn 1 Mother of Runes survives to turn 2. Turn 2 StP a Lavamancer. Turn 3 Parallax Wave away Birds and Ape. Turn 4 hardcast Angel. It's a quick game from there.


    CONCLUSION:
    Not much to say here. This is basically a consistent, incredibly strong aggro option with good game against the majority of the top decks in the format. It has high threat density, answers to essentially any threat it might face, and a solid draw engine. As long as combo remains relatively weak in the format, this deck deserves strong consideration.
    Last edited by Zilla; 06-16-2006 at 09:13 PM.

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    I will vouch for him: this really is a strong deck. At the Mana Drain tournament, the top 4 was two of this deck, wMUD, and Zilla Stompy.

    In my defence, that might have been the first time I used Zilla Stompy. If not, it was one of the first times I used it. With him at 3 and 2 life, I would bet that I could have won both games if I was a good player and did more testing with Zilla Stompy before the tournament, instead of during it.

    Yeah, this deck is very strong. It is fast, the removal is plentiful, and I would agree that Exalted Angel is one of the best creatures in the format.

    Dangit, Godzilla, when we asked you to build us another format warping deck, I didn't mean this beast. I have wondered a few times what happened to this deck, usually accompanied with relief that it quietly died. It is a beating.

    What do you believe is the weakest card in the deck? It helps to have a starting place to work from.
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    Frankly, I don't think any of the cards in it are weak. I mean if I had to answer the question I guess I'd say Savannah Lions, but they're sure as hell not going anywhere. At this rate, I think that if there are any changes made, it will likely be dropping a single card already in the list for one more of a card already in the list. It's developed now to the point where only minor tweakage is worthwhile, if necessary at all.

    For the most part, the aspect likely to see biggest change is the sideboard, and that is (obviously) highly meta dependent.

  4. #4
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    I, uh, really hate to make a post that doesn't really say anything, but I pretty much vouch for everything Godzilla said in here. Prior to the BR change, it beat almost everything in the format except for having an unfavorable matchup with Workshops. Now, it beats everything Zilla ran it against, pretty much.

    The only reservations I really have are the lack of Eternal Dragon and Decrees in the maindeck. Formerly pure savagery against control, their relegation to the sideboard gives me a frowny face. I realize Decree's stock went down with Skullclamp's loss, but Eternal Dragon really was quite strong for me. Why'd it get cut?
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    This deck doesn't look very bad, though the only problem is getting hands with no Plains. I just goldfished this deck 8 times, and got no Plains hands 3 times. Do you think we can cut a few of the Tombs/Cities?
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy
    Eternal Dragon really was quite strong for me. Why'd it get cut?
    It got cut because I needed room for Isamaru, to be frank. Further because in many cases it was win-more. Occasionally it would win long games, but I've opted for a faster, more aggressive strategy with the modern build, and Dragon doesn't really fit this paradigm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carney2k4
    This deck doesn't look very bad, though the only problem is getting hands with no Plains. I just goldfished this deck 8 times, and got no Plains hands 3 times. Do you think we can cut a few of the Tombs/Cities?
    Absolutely not. It's true that the manabase occasionally requires aggressive mulls, but the payoff from the Cities and Tombs is more than worthwhile. The deck actually did used to run 12 Plains, but I often found myself getting flooded with them in the late game. If you were to remove anything for another Plains, however, I would recommend removing a single Sword, Mask, or Disenchant before ever recommending the removal of Cities or Tombs.




    Edited By GodzillA on 1100486869

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    Another problem though, is getting the WW for Knight and Priest on turn 2. After Goldfishing this deck a few more times, I found that that I kept getting 2 land hands with Tomb and Plains. This is fine when you have a Tithe, and those help really well for smoothing out the Mana Base. I took out 1 Disenchant from the MD, and added a Plains, and it is starting to get a little better. Are you sure we cant make room for a Dragon or 2? As they can help if you get a no Plains hand.
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    It looks strong, but as a hardcore Goblin player I must admit to not being so scared of your random protection from red dorks. True, I play Goblins as far more controlling than do most people (and probably slightly better than most people), with maindeck Swords to Plowshares and 3 Disenchants.

    How does this deck answer Anarchy, or for that matter Fledgling Dragon? The former has to basically turn you into Bill Paxson in Aliens: 'It's game over, man! It's game over!', and the latter is an enormously undercosted fat creature that you have, um, Swords to Plowshares to adequately deal with. True, you have a lot of outs against Goblins, but a well-played and built version of the red deck is not your easiest matchup by any means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carney2k4
    Are you sure we cant make room for a Dragon or 2? As they can help if you get a no Plains hand.
    I'm not totally sure, no. However, they were in the original iteration of the deck, so I know what they have to offer the deck; I haven't missed them much in recent testing. Truth be told, the tempo cost tends to be too egregious for them to be worthwhile, in my experience. Feel free to do some more thorough testing with them if you want, and let me know what you find.

    @Kird:
    I've done lots and lots of testing against Goblins, including the builds running the white splash. The bottom line is that whether you fear them or not, the Pro:Red dorks own your ground force. You only have 4 Swords at most, and I'd by far rather you hit my Knights and Priests with them than my Exalted Angels. As for Fledgeling Dragon, I simply answer that the same way I answer any other fat creature; I Swords it, Wave it, or block it with a Sword equipped Angel. Simply, the deck has many more answers than Goblins does significant threats. This has been confirmed by extensive testing.




    Edited By GodzillA on 1100489644

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    The build looks really good, and very fun, Dragon's are great ways to smooth out your mana if you are stuck on a 2 colorless land or 2. I am curious as to why you dropped your angel bluffs(Whipchorder)? He is a beast, they have to be able to call your bluff. Just dont do what I saw 1 guy do. "Ill pay 3, morphed Ange!.. I mean a morph." Funniest stuff ever.
    Anyways, if I had access to MWS I would goldfish it, but I guess I'll have to do it the old fashioned way, spend $$$ to buy cards, who likes doing that?
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    Sword of Fire and Ice is just as big a must-counter as Whipcorder, and it makes all your other creatures that much better while drawing cards and doing more damage. Besides, after a while, they become easier to play around. Sword's just a beating, while Whipcorder's just mostly a cute trick.

    It's quite true that both the Goblin and Burn matchups can get close, but it's generally in favor of Angel Stompy. Anarchy's powerful, but fairly slow and not that brutal unless you overextend like an idiot. Parallax Wave also stops the bleeding. There's no one card I found to be a complete auto-win against Angel Stompy in this format.

    Also, I'm getting rather irritated with people complaining about card prices in regards to testing decks. This site, and especially this forum, is dedicated to finding the optimal decklists for each deck, regardless of what price is. Use proxies if you don't have Apprentice or MWS, and keep budget builds and questions in the appropriate forums. Please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodzillA
    True Believer: Strong against almost all combo. It will buy you at least a turn against Belcher, is essentially game over if you resolve it against Solidarity (especially when backed by Mom)...
    This seems like an exaggeration. How fast is your average goldfish?

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    @NeoMike:
    Eternal Dragon: In a slower, more controllish build, Dragon is excellent. In this highly agressive build, which typically wins the game by the time you'd be recurring and hardcasting a Dragon, I would almost always rather see a Plains in my hand than an Eternal Dragon.

    Whipcorder: Frogx0r's on the money here. The Whipcorder trick is nice, but it's not absolutely essential for the deck's gameplan, particularly with Mana Drain out of the picture. Soltari Priest, on the other hand, is extremely strong in conjunction with Sword and Mask, especially in a meta rife with red-based removal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Zur
    Quote Originally Posted by GodzillA
    True Believer: Strong against almost all combo. It will buy you at least a turn against Belcher, is essentially game over if you resolve it against Solidarity (especially when backed by Mom)...
    This seems like an exaggeration. How fast is your average goldfish?
    Let me clarify: I am not suggesting that True Believer alone is an auto-win against Solidarity. That said, I don't think it's an exaggeration to suggest that it is a strong anti-Solidarity card, which was my intention. True Believer absolutely requires Solidarity to find bounce before they can go off, which can often buy you enough time to finish the job. If backed by Mom, True Believer is essentially a turn 2 lock, assuming no Force of Will. Regardless, I made it clear in the matchups section that Solidarity is one of the deck's more difficult matchups; I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

  14. #14

    Good call on Enlightened Tutor. It is absolutely horrible for this deck. Every time I had in my hand I wanted it to be something else. It slows the deck down big-time.

    I like Soltari Priest as well. Iíve run him in the past and can attribute several wins to his namesake.
    Turn 2 Shadow Dude + Heavy hitter equipment the following turn are what easy wins are made of.

    Have you given much thought to Chrome Mox?

    Upside:
    Turn 1: Play Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, and a mysterious face down critter.
    Turn 2: Plains, flip the critter and smash face. Proceed to Winnerís Circle, as you would most likely win that damage race.

    Downside:
    FoW, STP, Bolt.

    It could be a possible replacement for City of Traitors.

    It still allows for a Turn 3 face beating Angel, give the possibility, however unlikely, of flipping an Angel on turn 2, and can act as a mana fixer allowing you to have more access to White mana.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erzengel
    Have you given much thought to Chrome Mox?
    I have given thought to it, yes, but admittedly not a lot as of yet. It's certainly on my list of things to test, particularly because of its potential synergy with Tithe; Tithe can be pitched to it in circumstances where it wouldn't gain you card advantage (i.e., you have more lands than your opponent), and can also create a higher likelihood of having less lands than your opponent, thereby increasing overall card advantage potential from Tithe.

    Furthermore, it could be less of a dead topdeck in the lategame here than in other decks, as it can be discarded after a Mask of Memory draw. It's worth testing for the other reasons you mentioned as well. I have some worry about replacing Cities with them simply because it may decrease average time to hardcasting an Angel, but I have a feeling this drawback may be negligible, and I don't see much else to cut for them. Additionally, they have the added benefit of upping your double-white consistency, which is obviously good. The ability to drop two 1cc threats or a Knight or Priest on turn 1 is also appealling. I'll be testing 3x Chrome Mox over 3x City and let you know what I think after I've got some accurate results.

    EDIT: Another thought that occurred to me is the strength of first turn Chrome Mox (no lands in play)>Tithe is likely to net you two Plains right off the bat, thereby negating the card disadvantage caused by Chrome Mox. Also appealing. The more I think about it, the more I think the Mox has potential here.




    Edited By GodzillA on 1100558282

  16. #16

    What specific build of Ravager did you test against? Being three colors gives that deck a huge amount of flexibility in the "answer" cards it can run, and the choice of those can hugely determine a matchup.

    You'll forgive me for being skeptical of any deck where every matchup is in your favor.
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  17. #17

    Hey~ Wheres the Manlands match up? >_>

    Hint: Not in his favor
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  18. #18
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    How is Solidarity anything but an auto-loss? True Believer is useless in any build running Cunning Wish(imo, that means any good build). Your *only* threat is Armageddon with a strong enough threat to back that up(ie, angel), assuming they have no counter. Your odds of racing are pretty low.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattH
    What specific build of Ravager did you test against? Being three colors gives that deck a huge amount of flexibility in the "answer" cards it can run, and the choice of those can hugely determine a matchup.

    You'll forgive me for being skeptical of any deck where every matchup is in your favor.
    I tested against the UWB build running Meddling Mage, Aether Vial, etc. The matchup is good pre-board, and very good after, thanks to Null Rod. Meddling Mage is relatively inconsequential since he can be removed via Swords, SoFI, or Parallax Wave. The deck has maindeck Disenchant for the majority of Ravager's threats, and solid blockers for everything but a mid- to late-game Ravager. Simply put, its essential lack of removal combined with the fact that it's not as threat dense, compounded even further by its weakness to Null Rod makes this a solid matchup.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manlands
    Hey~ Wheres the Manlands match up?
    Not included for obvious reasons, Ethan. Namely, you're the only person on the planet with enough lack of self-respect to play it. :p

    Seriously, though - I'll agree it was a difficult matchup pre-ban. However, the deck is significantly different with the current changes, particularly as it relates to your build. For example, I have blockers for your shadow dudes now. I also have Sword of Fire and Ice as additional removal, as well as maindeck Disenchants for your Seals and Factories. Essentially, the deck has gotten more aggressive and packs more removal since you last played against it, so the results may not be the same as they were pre-ban. If you want, we'll hook up and test the matchup more thoroughly. I'm interested in the results.


    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges
    How is Solidarity anything but an auto-loss?
    I don't know, but testing shows that it isn't. Difficult, yes. Auto-loss, no. Can I win this matchup in a straight race? Typically not. I agree with you there; it requires a bad draw on the Solidarity player's part. Game 1 is often going to be a loss.

    We disagree on True Believer, though. Bear in mind that I am not asserting that True Believer is a standalone answer to Solidarity. It is, however, a speed bump - one which can buy you enough time to win the race. You're correct that Cunning Wish can get Echoing Truth or Chain of Vapor to bounce him, but this requires the Solidarity player to first dig for Wish, and then cast Chain of Vapors. This requires time, which is what you need the most. As a side note, the Wish strategy is nullified by a True Believer backed by an active Mother of Runes.

    Let me be explicit: this matchup is difficult for Angel Stompy. The matchups section clearly states that Solidarity is likely its worst matchup. Aside from Armageddon and True Believer, what are your suggestions for improvement of this matchup?




    Edited By GodzillA on 1100594766

  20. #20
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    I also disagree with your assessment of the Solidarity matchup, or at least with your assessment of True Believer. I have tested Believer myself (admittedly in WWW, not Angel Stompy), playing against Solidarity piloted by Deep6er.

    What I found was that Believer gave me practically no time at all, since Solidarity will find the Wish and generate the mana to use it while going off.

    In my testing, the closest games saw a Believer resolve on turn 2, with Armageddon backup. The problem is that 'geddon was usually either countered by Force of Will, or Solidarity went off and won in response, bouncing the Believer along the way.

    It is also important to note that Deep6er has added Evacuation to the Wish board, meaning that Mom offers little defense to the Believer.

    Pretty much the only games I won were due to Solidarity fizzling out, or the occasional resolved 'geddon on the play. Especially considering Angel Stompy's ability to resolve 'geddon a turn earlier because of Tomb/City, I think that boarding in 4 'geddons is your best bet against Solidarity. Tangle Wire is also fairly brutal to them. True Believer seems almost like wasted sideboard space.
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