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Thread: [Deck] Dredge

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    [Deck] Dredge



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    "Ichorid is as much a Combo deck as anything, so every single card choice should be scrutinized. Keep in mind that switching one card can mess up the entire workings of some versions."
    - Parcher



    Introduction to Dredge.

    Magic is a complex game that is primarily focused on interacting with an opponent(s) and involves critical thinking and important decisions in order to establish an advantage in order to ultimately achieve victory. There are so many different types of decks - especially in Legacy - where the card pool is incredibly vast and so many different viable combinations of cards and colors exist. Magic also has numerous mechanics - abilities and terms indicated on specific cards (sometimes generalized within a block of sets) that usually encapsulate a theme of some sort.

    One of the more notorious mechanics loved (and hated) by Magic players around the world is "Dredge," an ability attributed to the Golgari in the Ravnica block. In short, the Dredge mechanic is a Replacement Effect (a type of 'continuous' effect that watches for one event to happen and replaces it entirely with another event) that occurs when the owner of a card in a graveyard with Dredge opts to replace a single draw by putting a set number of cards - as indicated by the actual card with Dredge - from his or her library into their graveyard. This event occurs for every individual draw, and the card with said ability will then go directly into its owner's hand.

    Here's a basic example of how it works:

    Consider we have a Stinkweed Imp, a long-time Dredge staple. The Imp dredges for a set amount of five (5). What this means is assuming the Imp is in your graveyard, for every individual card you would draw you may replace one of those draws by placing the top five cards of your library into your graveyard - in any order you choose - and taking the Imp and returning it to your hand.

    (Also understand that replacement effects offer no window for priority to be passed. According to the Comprehensive Rules 419.6e: Skipping an action, step, phase, or turn is a replacement effect. "Skip [something]" is the same as "Instead of doing [something], do nothing." You're simply replacing one action with another.)


    Historical Influence of Dredge.

    Historically speaking, the Dredge mechanic has provided an incredible amount of controversy to competitive players around the world because of how degenerate it can truly be. Dredge is a deck that bases its core strengths on having the advantage of not interacting with its opponents and overwhelming them with an incredibly large horde of the undead. The archetype deploys a variety of angles of attack and primarily uses its graveyard as a virtual "toolbox" - an incredibly potent strategy when you consider most cards that are being placed into your graveyard at an accelerated rate systematically provide you card advantage in so many different ways anyhow.

    Dredge has certainly made its presence felt over the years since its debut in the Ravnica block years back in just about every competitive format - and has changed that much more. In Vintage, the archetype gains an incredible amount of degeneracy and consistency with the powerful Bazaar of Baghdad. In Legacy, however, there are other ways to make the deck degenerate with the current card pool using cards such as Lion's Eye Diamond and Breakthrough to dredge basically through a massive chunk of your deck.

    For reference, here is a list of some Legacy Dredge articles detailing its intricacies and chronicling its evolution over the years (there are obviously varying types of Dredge lists; these articles are provided on the basis of understanding the archetype):

    The Dark Art of Dredge Fu, by Richard Feldman.
    Recurring Nightmares: Dredge Returns.
    Idea's Unbound - Legacy Dredge by Max McCall.
    Not-Quite-Manaless Dredge With Nicholas Rausch.
    Legacy Dredge Deck Tech with Adam Prosak.
    A New Take on Legacy Dredge by Andrew Weinberger.
    1st Place - SCG Open: Atlanta - Dredge by 4eak.
    Dawn of the Deaf: Grand Prix Indy Top Eight Report.
    Dredging to Glory - 13th at SCG: Baltimore by Michael Keller.
    Legacy's Best Combo Deck by Matt Elias.
    1st Place @ Curio Cavern: Legacy Altar of Alters Event by Michael Keller.
    Dredge: SCG Columbus with Gerry Thompson (Premium).
    It's a Dredgedy - The Legacy Takeover by Erik Hegemann.
    Breaking it Down by Jason Abong.
    The Cutting Room Floor: Manaless Dredge in Legacy.
    The Cutting Room Floor: Group Therapy.

    As time goes on, more and more links will be provided to include some really great writing on the archetype. If there is something you'd like to add, please let me know.


    Video Library.

    Nicholas Rausch (Manaless Dredge) vs. Caleb Durward.
    Bryan Gottlieb (LED Dredge) vs. Adam Cai.
    Joseph Pinkley (LED Dredge) vs. Kurt Samson.
    Damon Whitby (LED Dredge) vs. Sam Roukas.
    "Hollywood" Michael Keller (Manaless Dredge) vs. James Higginbottom.
    Erik Hegeman (Vintage Dredge) vs. Stéphane Roumanille.
    Erik Hegeman (Vintage Dredge) vs. Daniel Majano.
    SCG: Deck Tech - Legacy Dredge.
    Playoteket @ Lund Sweden: LED Dredge vs. Bant.
    Deck Tech: Dredge.
    Manaless in Action: MTG Deals.



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    The Basic Core of Dredge.

    For as long as Dredge has existed as an archetype, so too have a core set of staples that have made up the basic foundation for which the deck exists. While Dredge can be an incredibly subjective archetype, there are some inclusions that will always give it the fuel it needs to do what it does best.

    Golgari Grave-Troll

    Both iconic and powerful, the Grave-Troll is the flagship card for any competitive Dredge deck. It is currently the card which dredges for the most amount at a total of six (6) cards. Generally speaking, Golgari Grave-Troll optimizes most starts in that it allows you to dig farther into your library than any of its counterparts and additionally gives you the luxury of being able to accelerate your engine at a faster rate. Most, if not all Dredge variants max out at a full set of these - as it truly is the most optimal card that dredges in existence.

    Additionally, GGT is a high-value target when considering running Dread Return, as it can be a massive creature when it enters the battlefield (counting itself), but more on that shortly.


    Stinkweed Imp

    The Imp as we've already seen maxes out at a Dredge count of five (5). It is currently the second largest dredger and is also optimal at maxing out with a full set of four. While not the most orthodox line of play, the Imp does fly, can be reasonably hard-cast, and has a built-in ability mirroring Deathtouch (a mechanic that according to rule 702.2c. indicates that a creature that's been dealt damage by a source with Deathtouch since the last time state-based actions were checked is immediately destroyed as a state-based action). While the Imp doesn't have exactly Deathtouch, its utility can certainly be of assistance in troublesome circumstances.


    Golgari Thug

    Golgari Thug is third on the list as arguably the most controversial dredger currently in existence, with a dredge count of four (4). One of the reasons the card remains controversial isn't necessarily because of its basic inclusion in Dredge, but rather due in large part to its ineffectiveness in being able to facilitate dredges at a max dredge of four. Most lists that run Golgari Thug parallel its count with Ichorid, another card that takes advantage of the Dredge mechanic and lack of interactivity.

    The Thug's built-in triggered ability has some corner-case merit, but it's usually moot in most circumstances. However, it's a rather nifty ability to utilize in instances where returning Narcomoeba's or other anti-hate measures becomes the only line of play that can bail you out of troublesome circumstances. Remember, if the Thug is placed into the graveyard from the battlefield and is the only creature card in the graveyard when that happens, he will trigger targeting himself and will be placed on top of your library. Just something to consider in the event he is cast and subsequently killed.


    Bridge from Below

    Ever since its printing in Future Sight, Bridge from Below has become the very backbone of Dredge. Being as how Dredge uses its graveyard advantageously, the ability to create a massive horde of Zombie tokens in a hurry can be just overwhelming to an unprepared opponent. This is one of the more confusing cards in the deck to understand, so let's look at it like this.

    Here's the Oracle wording:

    Whenever a non-token creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
    When a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, exile Bridge from Below.


    So, we need to understand a few things here about the card, because as some of us have seen, it is a card that requires undivided attention to detail and the ability to use the triggers to your advantage.

    Let me repeat that one more time, because it is imperative to remember: attention to detail...and use the triggers to your advantage. You must not forget that not only should you make tokens when your non-token creatures die, but also remember to strategically dump Bridges from your hand whenever possible - depending on the match-up.

    The most important thing to consider when an opponent's creature dies simultaneously with your non-token creature(s) is to stack the triggers. Again: Whenever a non-token creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield. When a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, exile Bridge from Below.

    This means understand that you may stack the triggers in your favor so you may get Zombie token(s) when the Bridge(s) trigger from the graveyard. It's happened before on the big stage and I still don't understand why people consider the deck easy to play. This is an intricate part of understanding the way the deck works, and this is the most important card to pay explicit attention to. Take a few minutes to read up on the Stack; don't be embarrassed - it's not only critical to make you a better player, but more importantly a better Dredge player!

    This is an archetype that thrives on remembering triggers, so you have to know how and when to stack them appropriately and advantageously. Always run four - always.


    Cabal Therapy

    As previously mentioned, Dredge has the ability to overwhelm an opponent with a horde of Zombie tokens extremely fast. One of the primary ways the deck is able to achieve this is by being able to sacrifice its creatures to Cabal Therapy - an incredibly powerful discard spell that requires distinct skill and a solid working knowledge of the format to master.

    Being able to discard cards from your own hand in order to get cards into your graveyard is fine, but the card's primary use should ultimately be to shred an opponent's hand and create Zombies in the process. This is a card that has been most efficient at running a full set of. Whether or not you opt to run three main or one in the sideboard is fine - at least IMO - but just understand like the opening quotation indicates that swapping out a single card for something that acts functionally different can change the entire course of game-play. This has never been more true than of a deck like Dredge where getting maximum value out of your graveyard means the difference between winning and losing games.


    Narcomoeba

    Because a very large percentage of your library is going to be finding its way into your graveyard, Dredge needs to continue finding avenues of being able to "cheat" creatures into play from the graveyard. Narcomoeba is a card that, while incredibly good when dredged off the top of your library, can be somewhat of a liability when opened in your starting hand. You never want to ideally hard-cast anything but draw spells or discard outlets, and if you find yourself in a position where you're hard-casting Narcomoeba, you're usually in trouble.

    Being able to fuel Cabal Therapy and Bridge from Below is incredibly important in Dredge, arguably most important, so consider when choosing how many Narcomoeba's you want to run you take into consideration what you're doing. Narcomoeba is purely fuel and a semi-evasive attacker, really nothing more here. However, its utility is paramount and running anything less than four can in some instances be an incorrect number.


    Ichorid

    The single most powerful recurring threat in Dredge that refuses to die. Ichorid on its own is a relatively innocuous Black creature that really does nothing more than bait removal or suck up blockers, but when you truly look at why Ichorid is included in Dredge, you'll see why it's as powerful as it should be.

    First off, Ichorid is an efficient, recurring beater that does not interact with your opponent as far as being a spell goes (assuming you don't hard-cast it, which would be relatively rare), so counter-magic is generally out the window. The card wreaks havoc on Control decks because of their inability to stop it from returning turn in and turn out, which makes it incredibly resilient and an intricate part of the deck's strategy of avoiding interactivity.

    Additionally, in conjunction with Cabal Therapy & Bridge from Below, the card can be a menace. Sometimes it is not always correct to straight-up attack with Ichorid on the basis you do not want your Bridges exiled, so simply recurring one by exiling a Black creature and naturally letting it die at the end of your turn is ideal in amassing an army of tokens. Cabal Therapy optimizes this approach as you're able to make tokens and rip an opponent's hand apart in the process. The card speeds games up in a hurry when it has fuel, which is why sometimes only running two or three is the correct number.

    These cards make up the core foundation of the Dredge archetype. There are other considerations when deciding what to run besides these staples, so let's take a look at their utility.


    The Supporting Cast of Dredge.

    Being as how there are a multitude of varying sub-archetypes of Dredge such as Manaless, Hybrid, Lion's Eye Diamond, etc., we can look at some of the cards that help facilitate the aforementioned archetypes and what makes them successful. We'll also look at some cons, as sometimes cards that are deemed "suboptimal" in one build could have tremendous value in another. Again, to reiterate: Dredge is an incredibly subjective archetype, so we need to keep an open mind as to what is deemed optimal to one player and suboptimal to others.

    Putrid Imp

    This is right at the top of the list due in large part that it is included in a vast majority of builds currently in existence. It is an intricate part in Dredge today because of the powerful amount of draw spells and the choice to eschew what is known as the "DDD" plan, or "Draw, Discard, Dredge" plan. Understand that not everyone feels as though Putrid Imp is optimal as far as giving your opponent an opportunity to interact with you goes. However, at one mana and being a Black creature it provides an incredible amount of resiliency in being able to repeatedly fuel your graveyard with the most effective dredger available, feeds to a hungry Ichorid, and gives you access to dredged Therapies in your graveyard.

    For these reasons, Putrid Imp is all but considered a staple in Dredge these days, however it isn't necessary in all variants.


    Dread Return

    Dread Return is one of those cards that gives the deck a straight-up combo finish in being able to create a massive amount of Zombies and the ability to recur a creature that either facilitates an instant win, provides incredible defensive resistance, or is absolutely huge (or any combination of these). Some people have begun shifting Dread Return to the sideboard as it has become somewhat of a "win more" card that can be situational at times and unnecessary given that the deck already has an very solid game one win percentage among most of the format.

    The sideboard where you would ideally place a specialty creature like Iona, Shield of Emeria, which can oftentimes shut an opponent off entirely. Iona is usually the most common sideboard choice for Dredge as a Dread Return target, but there are other popular choices as well.

    Here are some other of the most popular Dread Return targets used either main-deck or sideboard over the years:

    Flame-Kin Zealot
    Griselbrand
    Angel of Despair
    Sun Titan
    River Kelpie
    Sphinx of Lost Truths
    Flayer of the Hatebound
    Eternal Witness
    Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    Inkwell Leviathan
    Woodfall Primus
    Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    Ancestor's Chosen
    Iona, Shield of Emeria
    Terastodon
    Stalking Vengeance
    Sadistic Hypnotist
    Realm Razer

    There have been other choices as far as targets go, and I'm sure I've missed some others as far as utility goes. These however have been the more popular options over the last several years, with Flayer currently the newest addition as a primary target in the build that most recently Top 8'ed Grand Prix: Indianapolis.

    Some Dredge enthusiasts believe Dread Return to be the "weakest link" in the overall makeup of the archetype, however in a very specific configuration the card can be incredibly powerful, as in Manaless Dredge - a variation of the archetype comprised of a high threat-density and eschewing draw spells to go the DDD line of play.


    Lion's Eye Diamond

    While Lion's Eye Diamond requires very careful consideration when including it in your list, it also necessitates some thought as to what spells you'll opt to run with it. The Diamond is a card that is purely combo and enables some incredibly broken starts with just about any draw spell. However, the card can force you to go "all in" at times as you're discarding your entire hand in the hopes your draw spell resolves. Even if it doesn't, you still should have a dredger in your graveyard - but that doesn't mean that will be ultimately effective in how the game turns out should your draw spell be negated.

    Lion's Eye Diamond is a card that, while not very price-friendly, can be essential depending on which variation of Dredge you're opting to run. Obviously a deck that incorporates LED to its overall strategy is going to want the best draw/discard spells the format has to offer in order to complete broken opening hands. Also keep in mind that when using Lion's Eye Diamond, you know when to maintain priority so you can fuel your graveyard before maxing out with a draw spell.

    The Diamond is a card that also gets shifted sometimes to the sideboard, which can be a mistake against some match-ups. Keep in mind that LED is a very powerful spell that requires a proper setup and opening hand to go along with it. Being able to discard your hand at will is nice, but know that sometimes that is not always the best line of play - especially in a format filled with varying kinds of hate.


    Breakthrough

    If you're looking to run LED in your deck, look no further than Breakthrough - an incredibly potent accelerate that in conjunction with LED can blast through a massive portion of your deck in a hurry. However, it is not always necessary to run LED and Breakthrough together. You can always opt to eschew running LED in favor of more conventional discard outlets such as Putrid Imp and or Tireless Tribe (which has since fallen in favor of just Imp), and that can work still just as fine. Also take note that you can choose to keep a card or more in your hand depending on the amount of "X" you want to pay, although you really want the card to resolve and to dump as many cards into your graveyard as soon as possible (in most circumstances) so you don't want to open yourself to more conditional counter-magic or hold off until something like Gaddock Teeg hits the table - a very realistic possibility in Legacy today.

    You don't necessarily have to run a full set of Breakthrough, as some winning lists (like that of recent Open Champion Adam Prosak) run only two or three main and keep a third or fourth in the board for Combo. This is, however, usually not the right line of play, as Breakthrough is just incredibly powerful when it resolves. However, let it be known though that LED does in fact produce mana when your hand is discarded, which is key when you want to run the next draw spell on the list...


    Faithless Looting

    The newest and brightest star in the Dredge galaxy. This card not only draws you and allows you to discard two cards, it lets you be able to do it...again! That's right, for 2R (wink wink, LED) you can flash this card back and repeat said process. That is incredibly powerful when you consider that for all intents and purposes your primary objective is to plow through your deck as fast as you can and turn your graveyard into a smorgasbord of answers and win-conditions. Looting gets the job done very well and is seeing a very high percentage of play in Dredge currently.

    While not necessarily a staple, Looting does in fact cost a single Red mana to cast. While this might be moot to some players, it really isn't when you consider the way you set your land configuration up. A deck for instance with twelve (12) land - eight (8) Gold including four (4) Cephalid Coliseum - can have awkward starts with a Coliseum and Looting attached to it. Be aware that if you're going to run Looting, you need to be able to hard-cast it and not necessarily believe that it only works discarded and flash-backed with LED.


    Careful Study

    Careful Study might as well be a staple in Dredge at this point because of just how good it is and always has been. It costs one Blue mana, which is very good because of the aforementioned reasons in regards to Looting. It's important to consider that Study does what Looting does, except without the bonus of Flashback. Study is a very potent accelerate and hand-filterer that can help facilitate the dredging process in addition to being a mana-friendly spell.

    Incredibly good for what it does, I wouldn't run anything less than four - which I already do.


    Nether Shadow

    Nether Shadow is by far one of my favorite cards to hit the Dredge scene in recent years. Understandably, it gets around counter-magic beautifully and fuels those big Dread Return turns (say that five times fast) so you can win the game on the spot. At first it seems relatively innocuous, but any unsuspecting opponent who underestimates Nether Shadow's primary utility will certainly fall if these go unanswered.

    The Shadow's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness in that Dredge builds that want to run him generally require running Phantasmagorian. During the days of Mental Misstep, Phantasmagorian off the DDD was incredibly powerful, and still can be if played correctly today. However, Phantasmagorian-Dredge builds generally are a turn slower, and while that can be beneficial in dodging interaction with an opponent and guaranteeing a solid start, it also generally puts you a turn behind and at risk to other factors including discard and decks that are simply faster.


    Cephalid Coliseum

    Most people confuse Cephalid Coliseum as a land instead of a virtual draw spell, and while there have been many debates regarding this issue over time, I still feel as though the Coliseum is a draw spell first and a land second. You're never really going to be using it as a land more than twice in a game, and if you're playing a faster combo variation of Dredge using LED, you're probably going to be wanting to use it to draw as fast as possible, but also strategically. You don't necessarily want to just activate it if you're not ready to, although generally speaking if you have a dredger in your graveyard with Threshold (seven or more cards) then it's probably a good idea to activate it.

    Coliseum is incredibly good, but keep in mind that you want enough land with it to activate it when you need to, meaning consider how many lands you want to run if you're running Coliseum - generally somewhere in the area of thirteen or fourteen mana sources. LED mana is generally used for Looting, but it can be used for Coliseum in the event you really feel as though it is optimal to "go off."


    Ashen Ghoul

    While certainly a long-forgotten force of early Dredge incarnations - especially that of Vintage "Friggorid" - the Ghoul was at one time a very serious threat within this archetype. It still sees occasional play in varying sideboards where diversification of threats is acceptable, as the card can basically mirror the strategy of recurring threats like Ichorid and Nether Shadow. It does however require an investment of one Black mana, which can create awkward situations when attempting to bring him back. He's generally played at no more than a two-of in most sideboards and is still a relatively solid choice if you have a sideboard plan that can support his substitution.


    Firestorm

    Recently, a card was printed that completely changed the dynamic of how we as Dredge players build our sideboards. It's a card called Scavenging Ooze, and it's a bitch to deal with. Basically at this point in Legacy it is the bane of Dredge's existence as Maverick decks running Green Sun's Zenith can fetch it up in a pinch. It is imperative to have an answer to this creature at the ready, and no other card does it better than Firestorm.

    The thing about Firestorm that completely separates it from other discard outlets is that it is able to do a massive amount of damage to your opponents' creatures - and your opponents - and the fact is the discard part of the card is an additional cost, so no matter what happens the cards you selected to discard are headed to the graveyard no matter what. At one mana, this is an incredibly good answer in dealing with Ooze and clearing the way against fast decks like Affinity and Elves, where creatures can swarm the board in a hurry.

    Take note too of the fact that when you discard a Bridge from Below to Firestorm, it can potentially be exiled if you can't kill any of your own creatures upon resolution. However, sometimes it's a small price to pay if you need to wipe their board in a hurry. The card is a blowout and very hard to play around.


    Nature's Claim, Ancient Grudge, Ray of Revelation, Chain of Vapor

    Understandably, Dredge is going to have to fight through other kinds of varied hate in cards such as Tormod's Crypt, Surgical Extraction, and Leyline of the Void. While it is not uncommon at all to run into these forms of hate, it is very important that one learns how to play around them by supplementing their primary strategy with some measure of anti-hate. There have been some arguments as to what to run and how many of each you should run, but the fact is that the Dredge sideboard is even more subjective than the Dredge main-deck and therefore grants the deck-builder a bit of flexibility as far as configurations go.

    Good hate in the hands of an inexperienced opponent can allow you to capitalize on play mistakes, such as blowing a Crypt too early or 'Extracting incorrect cards. If you play around this hate with at least some level of distinct aggression, you can win the game at hand. Remember, your opponents are generally the ones that are at the mercy of an aggressive mulligan post-board in the dire hopes of trying to stay alive via hate, and that alone somewhat offsets the effectiveness of the hate in the sense that sometimes a clock is substituted immediately for hate, thus giving you a turn or two to recover.

    If your opponent cannot find a threat to nail down quickly, the game can swing back in your favor abruptly. Here is a slightly edited excerpt from the original primer where Parcher discusses his views on Grudge/Ray versus said hate:

    "In this deck, costing two is reason enough to discount a card. Ray is specifically in this category since one of it's main purposes is removing Leyline of the Void. So the Flashback often will be irrelevant. Grudge is a bit more useful since while there are a smaller number of problematic artifacts, you need to deal with the few that are played immediately. Grudge can also force the early use of a Relic or Crypt.

    The most difficult obstacle to overcome when learning to play this deck is the situations and frequency with which you must mulligan (a key point here; mulligan strategy is critical in Dredge no matter what game you're on). Not only are there specific needs for your opening hand, but they may change depending on your opponent, what game it is, and who is on the play. As a very general rule, there are four things you are looking for in your opening hand: lands, a discard outlet, a dredger, or a draw effect. Some cards count as both, but only in conjunction with others. I've found that in most cases if you don't have at least three of these four requirements then you must mulligan. If you have multiple draw spells, or are playing what you know is a good match/slow deck, this can vary a little. I can't stress enough how important it is to force yourself to mulligan hands without these needs, and to then learn when you can risk breaking that rule."


    He is one-hundred percent correct here. Knowing when to mulligan a hand that doesn't have a good enough shot at powering through hate or being able to strictly do what the deck is supposed to do should be shipped back at a moment's notice. Take into consideration though the other factors involved here that Parcher touched on, namely what you're playing against. Stock lists are bit easier to identify as far as hate goes, but it also depends on the style of the player.

    Think as long as you're realistically allowed to, goldfish and test as much as you can and you'll be just fine. It takes time to learn how to play the deck like with anything. Again, subjectivity is key here and a Dredge sideboard can consist of any number of anti-hate cards, but a good number to start with is generally eight (8). This gives you at least some flexibility to answer various archetypes and allows you some other slots to work with. Consider what is popular in your meta and what sort of hate is being used against you and adjust accordingly. Always keep your sideboard open to change; that's what makes a good deck-builder and someone who knows the ins and outs of their deck.

    Remember, Dredge is a deck people love to hate and you'll be typecast as the kind of player who thrives on running a deck like it in tournaments. You might even do well with it. If you do, expect to make plenty of mistakes with it even in victory and understand that even though the raw power of the deck can sometimes push you to wins, it is important to understand what you did right as well as wrong and what you can do to correct it.

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    Dredge Variations.

    The evolution of Dredge since its debut has certainly been both prosperous and tumultuous. Some variations of Dredge in Legacy have experienced more success than others, and now that we have a better understanding as to the cards that make up the core of the archetype we can look at the various types of Dredge decks that exist.


    Manaless Dredge

    Manaless Dredge is easily one of the greatest anomalies the format has ever witnessed. Basically, Manaless Dredge eschews running lands and focuses primarily on moving straight to the Cleanup Step where it will have discarded a dredger into its graveyard and creating little (if any) interaction with an opponent. From there, the Manaless player can proceed to accelerate a dredger using cards like Street Wraith in order to fuel its graveyard faster.

    Ideally, a Manaless deck wants to max out on the number of Ichorids and Nether Shadows in order to create a very threat-dense list that can be incredibly hard to stop. Additionally, Dread Return fills a huge role in the deck as it is fully capable of being able to not only recur its threats and make Zombies, it can bring back a serious threat in the form of a specialized Dread Return target that can win the game for said player immediately.

    Manaless Dredge has certainly evolved since the summer of 2011 when Mental Misstep was still flourishing in the format. I have personally taken the deck and attempted to transcend into the current age of Legacy where decks like RUG and BUG have become more and more predominant. My personal variation of Manaless Dredge has been quite successful, having secured multiple NELC Top 4s/8s in addition to scoring big at numerous other Invitational Qualifiers. Understand that Manaless Dredge always wants to draw first, which can be a red flag for some players fully aware of what to expect. The surprise factor is relinquished if you win the die roll, and sometimes that can be enough if your start is slow enough. Manaless Dredge has fallen out of the spotlight in recent months as people began to realize that sometimes necessitating lands can be incredibly important in not only being aggressive with your accelerates but for defense as well.

    For reference, here is my current list:


    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Thug
    3 Shambling Shell
    4 Ichorid
    4 Nether Shadow
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Phantasmagorian
    3 Contagion
    1 Sickening Shoal
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Dread Return
    3 Griselbrand
    2 Flayer of the Hatebound

    4 Dryad Arbor

    //Sideboard
    4 Reverent Silence
    3 Noxious Revival
    2 Nature's Claim
    2 Sickening Shoal
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Forest
    1 Contagion

    The list has performed very well in recent months. If you're looking to try something unique and different, look no further than Manaless Dredge.


    LED Dredge

    As the title indicates, this is a Dredge variant that goes straight-up combo and abuses the degeneracy of Lion's Eye Diamond in conjunction with the draw spells we had already talked about. While LED Dredge can certainly be incredibly fast, it can also be inconsistent at times. Most Dredge decks already mulligan very aggressively in search of the cards Parcher mentioned, so you have to understand that sometimes your opening hand will not always have the "goods."

    Since the printing of Faithless Looting, LED has become incredibly popular as far as playability in Dredge goes. Here is the list that recently Top 8'ed Grand Prix: Indianapolis by Ando Ferguson:

    1 Flayer of the Hatebound
    2 Ichorid
    3Golgari Thug
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Careful Study
    3 Dread Return
    4 Breakthrough
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    1 Tarnished Citadel
    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine

    //Sideboard
    3 Faerie Macabre
    3 Chain of Vapor
    3 Firestorm
    2 Ichorid
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Cabal Therapy
    1 Angel of Despair

    As you can see, the Flayer of the Hatebound finish is incredibly instrumental in how the deck wins its games. It runs the traditional components of any LED list but goes with the combo finish. A lot of folks right now are on the fence still about Dread Return, but Ando Ferguson certainly proved at least some people wrong here. The raw power of Lion's Eye Diamond can just be too much sometimes for opponents to handle, no matter how good or how prepared they might be.


    Quadlazer LED Dredge

    As the title indicates, the "Quadlazer" LED Dredge deck employs a very straight-forward strategy: max out on every single spell and land to add some raw consistency to the deck's plan. This list is unique in that it has the ability to basically find whatever it needs more often, running a very flat and standard number of draw spells and dredgers. This strategy has worked relatively well in the European meta-game and is seldom seen in U.S. lists (for whatever reason). It's primary strengths lie in its consistency, but it can also make sideboarding a little difficult.

    When you max out on four-ofs throughout your entire deck, it can be a little awkward when deciding on what cards to bring in post-board because you have to trim down on cards that were potentially of great use in stabilizing the deck to begin with. Removing dredgers can be a mistake, and sometimes folks tend to remove the LED's in match-ups they shouldn't, which is where cheap game losses come into play.

    For reference, here is a basic Quadlazer LED Dredge list:

    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Careful Study
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Breakthrough
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine

    //Sideboard
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Nature's Claim
    3 Ashen Ghoul
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Undiscovered Paradise
    2 Tarnished Citadel

    While the sideboard is completely up for interpretation, the first sixty appear to be pretty standard. However, with this balance comes a slight degree of understanding how the deck mulligans. A list running all four-ofs can also dredge into more dead weight early on, which is generally not good. That is alleviated in knowing though that the threat density has been maxed-out with four Ichorids, which can be powerful under the right set of circumstances.

    Also one thing to note here is that a list maxing out on its cards can also be hurt more frequently from Surgical Extraction, one of the most prevalent hate spells in the format. It's a card that yearns to get the most value out of its target, and by running four of everything you open the door to some serious trouble.

    Still, success is success and it is still arguably the most popular form of Dredge in Europe today - quite standard.


    Non-LED Dredge

    Whether cost is a barrier or someone just wants to skip it over, eschewing LED's can be a decision based on a variety of reasons. Some people feel as though trading the raw speed of the card with something more permanent-based like Tireless Tribe is a better method overall and allows you warm bodies for Dread Return and Therapy. However in doing so you are slowly draining the "combo" feel out of the deck by removing its most broken accelerate in the process. This can be a factor, but those who have purposely decided to skip playing it in favor of older, more traditional lists obviously have a better grasp of understanding the intricacies as far as what to play in its stead.

    It should be noted that Lion's Eye Diamond is an irreplaceable card and as such should be heavily considered given the power that a card like Faithless Looting provides with it. (Not to sell a point on it, or anything.)

    Here is a list that decided not to run LED back in 2011 that, while without Faithless Looting, still proved effective in a large field of players - the Bazaar of Moxen V:

    3 Ichorid
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    3 Golgari Thug
    1 Darkblast
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Tireless Tribe
    4 Narcomoeba

    2 Dread Return
    4 Careful Study
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Breakthrough
    4 Bridge from Below

    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    3 Tarnished Citadel

    //Sideboard
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Realm Razer
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Hypnotist
    4 Nature's Claim
    4 Ancient Grudge
    2 Ray of Revelation
    1 Darkblast

    As you can see, this list was obviously tailored without Lion's Eye Diamond and uses the outlet of Tireless Tribe to create broken draw spells turn two. While not nearly as fast as LED Dredge, Non-LED Dredge has the capability of completely blowing the doors off someone ill-prepared to deal with it, in addition to having a bit more consistency as far as controlling its dredges games two and three. That can actually be quite relevant when you consider that in today's Legacy cards like Surgical Extraction exist far more than they did before.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    Dredge 'Hitmen.'

    When you choose to play Dredge, you have to accept the fact that there are cards in the respective format you're playing in that will cause you problems. You need to learn to accept this and understand that Legacy and Vintage are formats where graveyard hate is plentiful, and even played main deck in some instances. Once you learn to accept this reality you can then focus on assimilating the more common enemies that you will likely encounter in a competitive tournament.

    Let me be very frank here: people do not like Dredge. At all. With that being said, let's take a look at some of the most prolific cards we as Dredge players will have to face at some time or another.

    Scavenging Ooze

    Ah yes, Scavenging Ooze. It's one of the most annoying creatures any Dredge player will have to deal with. At the cost of two mana, your opponent will subsequently use this grave-eating machine to deplete your graveyard of useful creatures and spells. Make no mistake, Scavenging Ooze is a pain for Dredge to deal with. However, it's not so much a problem for LED Dredge variants as they are capable of exploding before the player using Scavenging Ooze has time to activate it.

    Additionally, few players run more than two which means they must open with it in hand or use something like Green Sun's Zenith to retrieve it. It's one of the most common cards used to combat graveyard strategies main deck in Legacy today.

    How To Beat It: If you want to beat Ooze, you should run some sort of removal in either your sideboard or main deck in the form of Firestorm, Contagion or Sickening Shoal. These cards will generally blow an opponent out if they are predicating a shady keep with an Ooze in hand, which works in your favor. You can also just win before they have the opportunity to use it, which is usually the best course of action.


    Deathrite Shaman

    One of the most powerful one-drops ever printed. Legacy right now is thriving with this creature at the ready in most decks that go the BUG or Rock-route. Either way, it's strictly speaking a nuisance for Dredge players because of how quickly it can get online and how versatile it is main deck. You're more than likely going to encounter this creature at a competitive event right now, so be forewarned you have to anticipate a strategy to beat it one way or another.

    Shaman also has its disadvantages to said player, too. LED Dredge has the ability to plow through your deck before this card becomes relevant and Manaless variants run Contagion, Shoal and Street Wraith. Opening with a good hand generally takes Shaman by the balls.

    How To Beat It: Understand that Shaman costs one mana - so to beat it you need to have enough removal in your sideboard or an explosive start to combat it before it becomes relevant. Removal as mentioned will be able to slow the player using it down, and Street Wraith (and even Phantasmagorian) is especially brutal as it's able to just go off without worrying about the card that is targeted. Dredge has the ability to start and finish fast, so Shaman in that respect can simply be outgunned when you compare explosive capabilities from the Dredge player and their opponent.


    Rest in Peace

    I hate this card. A lot. Not because I lose to it necessarily, but because it is yet another "flavor of the month" card that is seeing lots of play - especially in Europe (having just won the title there). Rest in Peace is used in a combo deck with Helm of Obedience, an innocuous combination that for some reason people are getting their panties all up in a bunch over. That aside, you're still going to have to accept its relevance in the format today, although that could change relatively fast.

    Rest in Peace decks also use Enlightened Tutor, which is even more of a problem.

    How To Beat It: You'll ideally have to race this card if you're on the Manaless plan. That or use Noxious Revival, Claim and Reverent Silence to try and combat it. Those cards can be sufficient as most RiP decks use other enchantments like Counterbalance and Energy Field, so Silence has major application there.

    As for other Dredge variants, there are more than enough ways to stop RiP: Claim, Chain and Ray of Revelation (with the trigger on the stack). LED Dredge should have little trouble stopping this strategy, however because there is a chance you can whiff off a quick start - you're opening yourself to getting blown out faster. Thankfully, we have draw and filter which can find us ways to remove this annoying card from our eyesight.


    Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt

    Relic and Crypt are cards that see play and should also be considered when playing Dredge. They can eradicate a player's graveyard, all graveyards and draw a card in the process. Both are relatively fair cards that don't see a whole lot of play these days, but are still threats and should be treated as such.

    How To Beat It: You can't really do much about either when they hit the table because their activation cost is free - aside from Relic's secondary ability. However, you can force a player to use them with anti-hate or entice them to pull the trigger on it sooner than they'd like. This necessitates some Jedi mind-tricks (seriously) and in some instances stacking your graveyard (which you can legally do when you dredge) to make your graveyard look more aesthetically attractive for them to remove immediately.

    It's also important to "slow dredge" in the event an opponent has either of these out. This means you should be dredging at a minimal amount to soften the blow of an activation attempt. After an opponent does this you can then pull the trigger on whatever explosive capability you have in hand.


    Leyline of the Void

    Leyline is similar to Rest in Peace, yet a bit different. You see, Leyline of the Void is a card that forces the player running it to mulligan aggressively for it if they don't think their deck can support itself without the help of Leyline early in the game. This strategy works to your advantage because it is entirely possible your opponent will mulligan low enough to find it with a terrible hand.

    On the flip side of things, an opponent could possibly nail one in their opening seven. This would necessitate an immediate response from the Dredge player as an unanswered Leyline normally spells doom if unprepared.

    How To Beat It: Reverent Silence, Claim, Chain, Ray of Revelation (with mana) and any other form of enchantment removal will do the trick. Leyline is actually quite easy to beat, as typically you're running more anti-hate for it (five to six slots) than they are running normally with their hate - just the four Leylines. This typically means that your chances of opening with any one of six anti-hate spells is about 54.14% to their 39.95% (and dwindling depending on mulligans). Granted, this percentage doesn't take into account lands enabling you to knock out a Leyline - but it should be encouraging to know you have a statistically good chance of fighting one early on.


    Grafdigger's Cage

    Someone asked me recently what the one card I never wanted to see played against me was, to which I hesitantly responded: "Grafdigger's Cage." I honestly never like seeing this card hit play against me because it's really that good. That doesn't mean we can't beat it, but it certainly is annoying (especially if you're not playing many lands).

    How To Beat It: Artifact removal is the only way, really. That or hoping and crossing your fingers that an opponent doesn't draw into one before you win - which is entirely possible.


    Extirpate and Surgical Extraction

    Again, more common hate - with the former less as much. At one point, Surgical Extraction in conjunction with Snapcaster Mage was at an all-time high but has since died down. These cards still see competitive play but are still less viable against most Dredge variants. If your deck is as threat dense as Manaless is, the last thing you care about is an opponent targeting one of close to a half-dozen relevant cards.

    How To Beat It: Really the only thing besides stripping them blindly from an opponent's hand with Therapy (if they allow it) is to man up and accept their choice. However, cards like Street Wraith (against Extraction) and conditioning your sideboard with cards like Ashen Ghoul will help soften the damage of their target.

    A skilled opponent will generally target the most relevant choices at a particular moment in the game. In most instances, it really doesn't matter if your draw spells or discard effects contain more dredgers or attackers that weren't hit.


    Faerie Macabre

    Faerie is another card you kind of just have to expect some decks to have. It's more of an uncommon form of hate, but decks like Elves seem to like running them as a few-of. It's probably the hardest of all graveyard-hate cards to stop because it's impossible to expect and stop at the same time. It's also a card that has application in Dredge sideboards itself, which is also worth noting.

    How To Beat It: Faerie Macabre is a card that can only be stripped from an opponent's hand with Therapy, really. That or cycling a Street Wraith to counter an early one on your single dredger in Manaless. LED Dredge has to accept a potential blowout when discarding their hand, but you still have lots of draw to find other dredgers. Additionally, some rare sideboards contain Pithing Needle; a cute sideboard option that has some application against more popular hate cards in the format today.


    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    I would just like to close by saying that I believe Dredge to be by far the most personal archetype in all of Magic currently in existence. I say that because while the deck has endured through years of hate and managed to stick to the basic core group of cards that make up the general foundation of the deck, people tend to like putting their own stamp on their own unique builds. Understand that Dredge is a completely subjective archetype, but it takes an incredibly knowledgeable player who understands the intricacies of the interactions with the cards in the deck as well as playing the best situational Magic they possibly can.

    Having said all of that, I can say for certain that in order to play Dredge successfully, you should follow these three simple rules:

    1. Know When To Mulligan and How To Mulligan Properly.

    I can't stress it enough. I learned through hundreds - if not thousands - of goldfishes and games that you have to be okay with dropping a hand if you don't think it's acceptable. Going back to a quote by Parcher:

    "The most difficult obstacle to overcome when learning to play this deck is the situations and frequency with which you must mulligan. Not only are there specific needs for your opening hand, but they may change depending on your opponent, what game it is, and who is on the play. As a very general rule, there are four things you are looking for in your opening hand; Mana, Discard, Dredger, and Draw. Some cards count as both, but only in conjunction with others. I've found that in most cases if you don't have at least three of these four requirements that you must mulligan. If you have multiple draw spells, or are playing what you know is a good match/slow deck, this can vary a little. Some combinations such as LED+Coliseum, or LED+DA allow you to break this since Lion's Eye Diamond acts as Mana and Discard, but this is an exception. I can't stress enough how important it is to force yourself to mulligan hands without these needs, and to then learn when you can risk breaking that rule."

    This is completely true. I brought this up before, and I'm doing it again: this is the single biggest factor that separates good Dredge players from the novice ones. Don't be afraid to ship; I've seen more busted three and four card hands with this deck than seven card hands. While not necessarily the ideal strategy, that is what this deck is capable of - notably the LED variants.

    2. Don't Forget to Stack and Remember Your Triggers Properly.

    Speaks for itself. You have to remember your triggers - it's what makes the deck work. Do not forget your Narcomoebas. Do not forget to stack the Bridge triggers in your favor whenever applicable. Do not forget your Ichorids; they're in there for a reason (this also means try not to hide cards or pile cards in your graveyard. You'll likely forget the Ichorids are in there for a turn and it will cost you dearly). And do not forget that Cabal Therapy and Dread Return facilitate tokens - that's what makes them great here.

    3. Know When To Pull the Trigger.

    Sometimes, when you're on the play, it's okay to go all-in on a single line of play. Remember that a lot of decks weak to Dredge have brought in some amount of hate, and for good reason. If they can't find it, they'll mulligan for it - putting them right on par with your aggressive mulligan strategy. That is alleviated, however, knowing that your starts are generally more broken than theirs at any given time. Sometimes a little "psyche-out" tactic like an enthusiastic 'snap-keep' can throw an opponent down a tail-spin of bad mulligans. I've done it many times.

    There is nothing more powerful than knowing you dictate the pace and mulligan strategy of your opponents' starts. Establishing an advantage like that before the game begins is incredibly potent, and I've even done it myself in numerous circumstances, mostly sealing victories in the process. If you follow these simple rules (and I'm sure there are others; these happen to be mine), you can play Dredge with the best of them. It will take time to get good with the deck, but that's okay if you're dedicated to playing one of the most degenerate and hated strategies in all of competitive Legacy.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 03-17-2015 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Lets be freaks...
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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    <3 the new primer.

    Big thank you. Keep on the good work. =D
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
    :16: - (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
    Legendary Creature - Horror
    Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
    Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
    Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
    13/13

  3. #3
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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Nice Primer!

    And congratz to your finish.
    My colors are... ZONK!
    You haven't any colors. You play Dredge.
    You love games, which are unfair. You hate Reanimator & NicFit.
    At good days, you destroy everything. At bad days,
    you draw Narcomoebas. But the most important thing:
    Everybody hates you!

  4. #4

    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Can we have links to videos of people playing Dredge, just like in the TES thread?
    Pritty please =)
    Also give some love to Terastodon =)

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Maybe there should be a Quodlazer List (or a List without Dread Return, because it's not absolute necessary).

    Good Primer though.

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Thank you very much! Will there be another part about other important aspects, e.g. sideboarding? There was a lot of discussion going on in the old thread about boarding out LED an so on.
    Conan, what is best in life? - To crush your enemies, see them driven before you... and to hear the lamentation of their women!

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Thank you.

    Yes, all of those things are going to be added to the primer. Sideboarding, etc.
    "There's a legend round here. A killer buried, but not dead."

  8. #8
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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Looks really good so far!
    This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice

  9. #9
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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Your Effort is Greatly Appreciated! Solid primer and gave me a major refresher.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    Dredge is like a woman's period: Once a week every month, its fury engulfs everything, and then it hides for the rest of the month.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
    Should rename this thread to [SCD] Misguided Rage.

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Nice primer Hollywood! That was some really good reading. Although it's a bit too formal for my taste.

    When you get a chance, add some Matchups Analysis on the most common decks in the current metagame (Maverick, Stoneblade, Nic Fit/Rock, RUG, Storm, Burn/Sligh, etc...).

    It would also be very helpful to new players if you could go a little deeper in Cabal Therapy, I mean... Some guide of when to play it, what to name (against given decks), etc...

    I also agree that Quadlaser List should be there somewhere, as the common sense agreed that's the most resilient list.
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

  11. #11

    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    The primer looks great. I'll be looking forward to the sideboarding sections.

    Cheers,
    jares

  12. #12

    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus View Post
    Looks really good so far!

  13. #13

    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Thanks for the awesome primer Hollywood. Could you explain stacking bridge triggers for maximum benefit? An example would be great.

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by NewDredgePlayer View Post
    Thanks for the awesome primer Hollywood. Could you explain stacking bridge triggers for maximum benefit? An example would be great.
    Fairly simple examples:

    1) You attack with 2 Ichorids (having 1 bridge in the graveyard). Your opponent blocks one Ichorid with a Noble Hierarch. In combat phase, they all receive damage at the same time, and they go to graveyard at the same time. Both triggered abilities from Bridge from Below are put in the stack in the order YOU CHOOSE (you get priority because it's your turn). So the correct stack order should be: Get tokens first, and exile Bridge after. If you do the opposite, you won't get tokens in the process, because Bridge won't be in your graveyard anymore when the second trigger is about to resolve.

    2) You Firestorm with X=4, hitting your Opponent, 2 of his creatures and 1 Narcomoeba of your own (with bridge in graveyard, ofc). The same happens: All the damage is done at the same time once when the spell resolves, and all creatures are supposed to die at the same time. Both triggered abilities are put on the stack, and you can also choose the order of the stack because you can maintain priority after resolving a spell. That being said, you can put your Narcomoeba dying trigger first, and the exile trigger after.
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandalize View Post
    Fairly simple examples:

    1) You attack with 2 Ichorids (having 1 bridge in the graveyard). Your opponent blocks one Ichorid with a Noble Hierarch. In combat phase, they all receive damage at the same time, and they go to graveyard at the same time. Both triggered abilities from Bridge from Below are put in the stack in the order YOU CHOOSE (you get priority because it's your turn). So the correct stack order should be: Get tokens first, and exile Bridge after. If you do the opposite, you won't get tokens in the process, because Bridge won't be in your graveyard anymore when the second trigger is about to resolve.

    2) You Firestorm with X=4, hitting your Opponent, 2 of his creatures and 1 Narcomoeba of your own (with bridge in graveyard, ofc). The same happens: All the damage is done at the same time once when the spell resolves, and all creatures are supposed to die at the same time. Both triggered abilities are put on the stack, and you can also choose the order of the stack because you can maintain priority after resolving a spell. That being said, you can put your Narcomoeba dying trigger first, and the exile trigger after.
    a quick question. Can You only choose the trigger order on your turn ?
    for example the opponent attacks with a 1/1 and you block with a thug. both die at the same time and you have 2 bridges in the grave. Do you get to choose the trigger order or your opponent?
    I don't like MTG, i just like legacy control decks.
    Esper stoneblade

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by AEnesidem View Post
    a quick question. Can You only choose the trigger order on your turn ?
    for example the opponent attacks with a 1/1 and you block with a thug. both die at the same time and you have 2 bridges in the grave. Do you get to choose the trigger order or your opponent?
    Yes, you can. The only way for you to lose your triggers is when there's some other event other than normal combat (Mogg Fanatic sacrifice in combat phase, for example).

    In the case you described, you will get the tokens, and bridge is exiled after.
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    If Ichorid becomes blocked by a Noble Hierarch, just the Hierarch dies, and you don't put tokens, but I got your point... just to clarify.
    And about the triggers, actually you have to put "exile Bridge" into the stack first, so "put a token" resolves first.

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Thanks for the new primer Hollywood.

    I agree with everyone else about the German dredge list being in there somewhere, despite the fact I don't like any list lacking Dread Return.

    I believe sideboarding strategies are probably too subjective to put in this primer.

    Cabal Therapy tips would be a nice add on.

    Also, talk about why cards like entomb and unmask are bad and should not be run, please.

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    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojeh View Post
    If Ichorid becomes blocked by a Noble Hierarch, just the Hierarch dies, and you don't put tokens, but I got your point... just to clarify.
    And about the triggers, actually you have to put "exile Bridge" into the stack first, so "put a token" resolves first.
    Yeah, Noble Hierarch was a really poor example. But about the triggers on the stack, you can just choose what's resolving first, you don't really have to make a 'resolving pile'.
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

  20. #20

    Re: [Updated Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by joemauer View Post
    Thanks for the new primer Hollywood.

    I agree with everyone else about the German dredge list being in there somewhere, despite the fact I don't like any list lacking Dread Return.
    I might be mistaken, but I think that the lists that are usually being noted in primers are the ones that have achieved significant success, if any. I'm unsure of whether or not the quadlazer list fits that description (it probably does).
    Quote Originally Posted by joemauer View Post
    Also, talk about why cards like entomb and unmask are bad and should not be run, please.
    The occasional use of Darkslick Shores and its repercussions might also be worth mentioning somewhere.

    Cheers,
    jares

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