sdematt - I would comment on your list if I had a better idea of your sideboard plans. As is, it is leaning the direction that I like with Maverick w/ regards to games against Miracles. I rarely win games that go long, and as such don't quite care about midgame bombs. The games I win are those where hatebears+protection+wasteland keep them off balance long enough for the kill. I do not know how to feel about your manabase, however. Maybe swap a Savannah with a fetch, as I don't have a sexy beta birds to cast.
Although I don't think you play it for this matchup, I liked Surgical against Miracles (when I played it). Silly I know, but cutting off a Swords/Terminus after the first made my life so much easier. Blame Mr. Knab for suggesting it in Elves on the podcast.
Originally Posted by ktkenshinx
@sdmatt: List looks fine to me, not sure about the Scryb Ranger, I cutted it long ago, but I think this is personal preference. I think Sylvan Safekeeper is not that necessary in Abzan Maverick because you play more redundant threats. It's better in the threat light Punishing Maverick lists. It faired me pretty well playing a second Gaddock Teeg in the main, which is a threat for Miracles and Combo and frees up some SB-Space.
Another card I can recommend is Sword of Light and Shadow and I urge you to give it a try. Maybe a Bad-Beats story from GP Lille may convince you:
It's round 5 and I'm 2-2 and need to win to stay in contention (though I'm not in competitive mood after giving away two matches in a row due to inexperience with the opposing decks in round 1 and 2). My opponent sits down and we begin to play and I know after the first turns, that my opponent is on Miracles. My first plays involve a Qasali Pridemage and a Stoneforge Mystic which fetches me up a Sword of Light and Shadow. I thought twice about it and considered searching for Sword of Fire and Ice first, but Sword of Light and Shadow gives me an early threat which demands Terminus and plays well with the Pridemage and countered creatures, in other words I urge the opponent to find something whereas I can just sit back. So he is in need for an answer, in the meantime my draws are not that good, giving me lands and 3 Swords to Plowshares which I don't really want to see. While he has all the filtering with Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top and Dig through time I manage to get a nice board involving Dryad Arbor, Qasali Pridemage, Cavern of Souls on Cat and Fetchlands. I get him into a lock: EOT sac Pridemage targetting SDT, in my turn I attack with the Arbor equipped with SoLaS and get back the Pridemage, which I can play safe from counters thanks to Cavern of Souls. An opposing Counterbalance doesn't matter at all but serves as an out to an opposing Swords to Plowshares. He eventually sticks a Jace and Snapcaster Mage protecting it, but I use my removal aggressively and can get rid of the Jace in an counter attack. An Entreat the Angels for 2 is neutered by my remaining Removal. The match goes on and he plays all his 4 Terminus, 3-4 Swords to Plowshares, like 2 Dig through Time but I can always stick one creature euqipped with the sword and eventually get a Umezawa's Jitte online, the turn before he Entreats for 4 Angels I think. Thanks to the lifegain from SoLaS and the freshly played Jitte I can race and win an exciting first game.
The second game is over mch faster as he misses his 5th landdrop and I have the Wasteland for his fourth land and a Knight of the Reliquary vs. his Vendilion Clique. No Teeg needed at all!
I think my opponent played well, but I made some unconventional decisions and was very patient. All in all a hell of game and maybe some really great magic we've played there.
Maybe you even know my opponent, according to Julian's report about Lille he stayed with you in the castle, he had some fancy red/black hair.
Disclaimer: I wrote that game down from memory, so maybe I forgot something, but I think I covered the key plays which led to victory.
Formerly known as Bierbaron.
Maverick was my first Legacy deck I built into slowly while trading Standard stuff to get into the format. It was the deck I evolved as I got cards, so as I learned it the tool box became the best part about it. I ran Temple Gardens until I had Savannah, odd packages and creatures like Scryb Ranger, Mangara/Karakas, and Fauna Shaman/Vengevine. Maverick is probably the deck I was most familiar with at any point in my "Magic Career" and felt like even in matchups people said were "bad", I enjoyed and thrived.
Having the Tutor sideboard lets you be incredibly crafty with some of the answers. Since going to GP and SCG Opens, the format is so wide you need a few global answers and it was great to have like 1 random X card that could come in some matchups and be a virtual 2-3 of with Tutor.
I personally love the deck in its pure GW form, and remember when the Red splash started becoming the new hotness of the deck. Maybe I'll look at the top decks and think around a bit to see what I can come up with. I know it's easy to say "oh yeah, GW is still viable right!?" without a list and some play testing. The only problem is Wastelands on MTGO are ungodly expensive :(
Safekeeper is actually quite insane, especially against Miracles and it can be great against other Storm decks and OmniTell. In the fair matchups, he's also quite a beating. Putting your Miracles opponent on a must-have Terminus against a big Knight is important. Courser is fine, but Thalia is pretty decent too ;)
Scryb is there from a time when Delver was more popular, and I've liked him. Flash to untap my Knight to block is cool stuff, but flash can be decently important against Miracles, like for after a Terminus to hook it up to an Equipment. I've liked him before, so I'll keep trying him. Tracker is another option, but might be too cute. At least this guy gets past TNN.
I'd board in Surgicals against Omni, for certain. I'd likely board like this:
+3 Grip
+2 Teeg
+2 Surgical
+2 Canonist
+3 Thoughtseize
-4 Mother of Runes
-1 Scryb Ranger
-4 STP
-2 Abrupt Decay
-1 Random (Dryad Arbor?)
I know all about SoLaS, but I just don't have the room for it, and I'm not running enough Stoneforges to perhaps warrant it. SoLaS is great because I do play it in most of my other Blade decks, but I'm also running 4 SFM in those decks as well. Locking them out with Teeg is great with SoLaS, but in this deck you're also playing Mother of Runes and Sylvan Safekeeper to lock them out hopefully forever. I know the player, that was David, I think. I was at the castle as well ;)
I'll keep trying cards and combinations, but I don't think Maverick is super poorly positioned, as long as you build against Miracles and Omni. I'll need to test Omni a bunch more.
May I ask how you board against Miracles?
Interesting list from Sergi Juan de la Cruz, a player who frequently does well with Maverick in Spain:http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17937&iddeck=135300
Talking points: 4 Qasali, 4 StP, 3 Decay main. Extremely robust removal package. He runs 4 Thalia alongside Decay. Only 1 Stoneforge + Jitte/SoFaI. 2 Gaddock main.
I like Decay main right now in Library's slot. Two Libraries main has felt too cumbersome in the current meta to me (it definitely still has a place in the 75 though).
Sorry Bakofried, busy week. I'll respond when not in lecture.
Cut Library? Insanity.
-Matt
No worries. I'm digging through a reading list longer than I am tall.
On Library: I can't go below 2 copies. You need the dig. If everything was a land (Knight), a green creature (GSZ), or an equipment (Stoneforge), maybe. After sideboard, your deck often brings in cards that can only be naturally drawn or found through Sylvan. Land it against any grindy match up and it becomes much easier. Admittedly I don't think playing for the long game is good against older versions of Miracles. Now that some are cutting Jace and Entreat your endgame might be relevant.
With this list:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
Boarding against Miracles:
+2 Teeg, +3 Grip, +3 Thoughtseize
-4 STP, -4 Thalia
You're not mana denying Miracles, and slowing them down isn't the best either. STP is obviously garbage, but people may say cutting Thalia is wrong here. I never found Thalia to be amazing against them, whereas cards like Teeg, Grip, and Thoughtseize are really good.
Boarding against OmniShow:
+2 Teeg, +2 Canonist, +3 Grip, +3 Thoughtseize
-4 STP, -2 Decay, -2 SFM, -1 Scryb Ranger, -1 Wasteland
Boarding against Grixis Pyromancer, no Delver: (Uncertain if this boarding is correct)
+2 Zealous Persecution, +1 Gaddock Teeg (DTT)
-1 Scryb Ranger, -2 Qasali (+1 Scryb -1 Wasteland if Delver)
I caved in and bought a set of Wastelands on MTGO as well as the other cards I was missing. I plan on really testing out the GW list I remember and try and make tweaks to it. I know Black adds a lot to the deck with DRS, A Decay, and sideboard cards like Toxic Deluge, Discard, and Zealous P.
I need to look more into the online meta and find what is being played (besides Miracles) and think of a GW list to start testing out. I'll post a list before I start jamming games and let everyone know as it evolves. Any suggestions are more then welcome :)
Random thoughts for cards to add/test: Holy Light, more Scavenging Ooze, planes walkers like Elspeth, Courser, Enlightened Tutor for things like Library and sideboard hate, other random lands like Mutavault and some one ofs for like the Scry lands. I loved the toolbox aspect and having a lot of silver bullets. I know it's better to just streamline and run something consistent... But getting back into the deck id rather experiment a bit and see what's up.
Here is what I've been testing on the more GW base. I am not sure yet if not brining in black is just that much better, but for now I wanted to test with just GW. The side needs work, for now I noted I need a Pyroclasm type effect, maybe throwing Holy Light in as an answer to TNN and Pyromancer tokens. I also want to find space for maybe a Cavern main but the land is real tight even with just the two colors.
I have found so far the Collected Company and Eternal Witness play really well together. Aven Mindcensor is still strong with Wasteland as a mana denial plan once you set up.
The reason for so many 1 ofs is to test them in as many situations I can find to figure out which ones are super strong and which I might be better off dropping to give extra redundancy to others. Any suggestions are welcome.
GW Maverick
75 cards, 15 sideboard
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Forest
20 lands
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Voice of Resurgence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Eternal Witness
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Mother of Runes
28 creatures
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Collected Company
4 Green Sun's Zenith
12 other spells
Sideboard
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Banishing Light
1 Pithing Needle
3 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Ethersworn Canonist
15 sideboard cards
anyone think the KotR + Retreat to Coralhelm combo has potential in legacy?
No. As individual cards I can see them being run, but I won't be optimistic about an even semi-dedicated combo for Legacy.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
So have you been testing with this much, if at all? Have you found anything in particular subpar?
I was going to test it tonight. I'll keep y'all posted.
-Matt
Yes. I believe it's definitely viable.
Right now, my plan is to play two copies. We haven't done extensive testing as we have a pretty fledgling Legacy community, but quick testing and discussions have yielded quite a few benefits.
* Pump KotR up 10+ times. tapping down all blockers and winning that way.
* In a pinch, being able to tap down an Emrakul until you get a Karakas.
* Being able to kill or gain life out of nowhere with Deathrite Shaman.
* Having the instant ability to make multiple things pro-color with Mother of Runes.
* Being able to generate large amounts of mana on turn 3-4. Not sure what to do with it though at this point as I only had a GSZ to get another KotR. Maybe this makes it worth playing one Titania again. Would also leads to a LOT of creatures :)
* Being able to Scry away stuff sitting on top to maximize Sylvan Library
* Tap down opposing creatures, man lands, etc at instant speed. Possibly slow down the use of mana dorks.
All that being said, I'm not sure it's a card that need to be built around. You can adjust the numbers and maybe add one or two more creatures with tap effects. Add two or three RtC and call it a day. It's easy to generate blue mana. Between Birds/Deathrite/Noble and maybe adding one searchable blue dual, getting U shouldn't be tough.
Also considering trying out the Return to Coralhelm, but the main deck likely needs a few changes at that point:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Return to Coralhelm
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Marsh Flats
1 Tropical Island
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Containment Priest
2 Thoughtseize
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Scavenging Ooze
If the Return to Coralhelms, don't work out, it's not a huge deal. I think there is enough merit to give it a shot. The rest of the deck is standard fair for the most part. I'm still experimenting with the sideboard and trying to figure out what I like overall. Tested against several decks now that our local Legacy group is growing and so far this seems to be one that gives options against the decks available in our pool.
It looks promising.
Am I overlooking something: Get a fetch with Knight, fetch with Retreat untap trigger on the stack, tap land for mana, untap Knight to get a new fetch.
Don't we end up with +1 mana, and +1 Retreat activiation on the stack for every iteration?
Yes you do. I reckon you end your cycle with using all leftover activations to fetch 4 Wasteland to nuke your opponent. Or a couple of Wasteland + DD-combo. Or to abuse a manadork. After that, all you need is a Life from the Loam to lock your opponent out of land.
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