[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[buloid]

Thanks again, haganbmj


To everyone,

Have you sighted or toyed around with ideas on any new Maverick-worthy cards in Theros? Here are my picks:

1. Bow of Nylea -- though it would most probably fit in my Modern Hatebears (GW for life) than Maverick and it's not fetch-able by SFM, it's an entry-level Jitte at best for those without one. But what I like about it is that there's always something you can do on your opponent's end-step, and the fourth effect (pseudo soldevi digger) works well vs opposing Deathrites, fizzling your would-be loss of 2 life.

2. Mistcutter Hydra -- a one-of at most as it's not a feasible GSZ target, but can kill a Jace at times when it's played on an empty board.

Your takes?

[Fatal]

I would rather play green Groundbreaker or Timbermare then Hydra - GSZable is a huge factor in deck with a lot of 1-ofs, how many Hydras would you play to be consistant ?
Note that its body is rather poor to its cost in compare to any other creatures - those wrote upper have decent power to cmc to be a finishers also.

Uncounterable isn't such a big deal in turn 4-5, most time controls side out FoWs just to pick up more removal since is always 2-for-1 for them.

It has big impact in threshold MU where Hydra is.. just bad and overcosted - 4 mana and still dies to bolt, also haste there isn't so important like in Control MU.

[Barook]

Has anybody tested Cursed Scroll in his Maverick build as a sideboard yet?

Punishing Fire is pretty strong in the current meta due to 2 repeatable damage, but it makes the manabase much more complicated.

Scroll could be tutored for and be played in any color combination. Just like a repeated PF activations, it costs 3 mana and the one-card requirement isn't hard for us to reach. Main problem I can see is the weakness to Abrupt Decay (and Needle/Revoker weakness to a certain degree) and being somewhat slow, but it dodges graveyard hate/Wasteland and can shoot down Moms. It also works better under Thalia, although I doubt you would run it in the same 60 cards as Thalia when siding it in.

[door]

Has anybody tested Cursed Scroll in his Maverick build as a sideboard yet?

tried it in both Dnt and Maverick. It was too conditional to be good.

[Machahiko]

I've been wondering what does M@verick play at this moment? When he last played Maverick he played a build with vials and lots of hatebears, he also seemed to do quite well with it. People didn't give a lot of consideration for that list and everyone still runs the gsz package instead of vial'n stuff.

[slikwilly]

1. Bow of Nylea -- though it would most probably fit in my Modern Hatebears (GW for life) than Maverick and it's not fetch-able by SFM, it's an entry-level Jitte at best for those without one. But what I like about it is that there's always something you can do on your opponent's end-step, and the fourth effect (pseudo soldevi digger) works well vs opposing Deathrites, fizzling your would-be loss of 2 life.

I've thought about Bow in the Vial list. Counters on BoP would be nice, the life gain can be good, the ability to put wastes and canopy back into the library to get back with Wayfarer seems good, and kills Delvers and Cliques.

I'll probably try it out at some point, but the Vial list is already packed, so making a cut for it isn't easy. And not being able to tutor it up is a knock against it.

[ironclad8690]

I've been wondering what does M@verick play at this moment? When he last played Maverick he played a build with vials and lots of hatebears, he also seemed to do quite well with it. People didn't give a lot of consideration for that list and everyone still runs the gsz package instead of vial'n stuff.

I'm not sure if permanently, but he played dark maverick most recently:

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11121&iddeck=81252

So I did some extensive testing vs Patriot Delver, and punishing was only version that won consistently. GW struggles against grim lavamancer, lightning bolt and swords. The only game I won in fact was off of my opponent mulling to 5. It gets worse post board as well with submerges coming in. Less counters and more removal. Dark splash was just as miserable, with nothing really coming to the rescue. I have been reluctant to play abrupt decay in dark splash, but it appears to be necessary for the tempo matchups, at least as a two of in the 75. Punishing version can just kill every creature they play sans geist of saint win so that one went better. Just thought I'd report on my testing and see if anyone has any sick anti UWr tempo tech.

[nicoleptik]

Just thought I'd report on my testing and see if anyone has any sick anti UWr tempo tech.

Isn't Thrun the troll you are looking for? Dodges targeted removals and counterspells, and can block Geist all day long.

[M@verick]

I have just played 3 local tourneys since BOM, and I played different decks in all of them.
I usually play in mws and try different decks, and i have returned to my GW vial right now. I have been playing safekeeper less, and the deck get worse.

I have in mind to reduce to 20 lands. What do you guys think? 20 lands plus vials, wayfarers and birds/nobles. I think it will be enough, but i need to test it more. The list would be the same that I played in BOM, removing 1 maze and 1 cavern and adding 2 sylvan library. Maze of ith is not really a mana source, so virtually we are only reducing in one land.

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [A] Savannah
1 [U] Forest (3)
1 [7E] Plains (3)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls

// Creatures
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
3 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary

// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
2 [LG] Sylvan Library

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [TE] Choke
SB: 1 [PLC] Sunlance
SB: 1 [MBS] Leonin Relic-Warder
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction

In sb i want to try sunlance, as fifth removal, much better than path to exile, to face delvers, shamans, lavamancers, revokers, nobles, confidants, vendilions, metalworkers, lackeys, all elves... and a mix of rings and leonin. I think ring is better against control decks, but leonin is good with vial and against GW and D&T, decks which play few removal, in order to face their jittes.

[Lennard]

@ M@verick

Do you board out KotR when you board in RiP?

[M@verick]

No, its still a very useful creature. Is a big dude agaisnt MUs like jund and RUG, where rip shine. So both cards are always welcome. The percentatge to draw one of both is higher

[Barook]

Can we discuss measures to improve our game vs UW Miracles and Punishing Jund? Not just sideboard tech, but also MD ways to stop them. Miracles is getting more popular on MODO lately and the occasional Punishing Jund is just as bad as a match-up. Since combo is as relevant as ever, running black is pretty much a given in the MODO meta.

Teeg is really good against Miracles, but Karakas or an untimely StP still answers him rather easily. Revoker is decent to stop their Tops, Jaces or EEs, but rather hard to fit into the MD.

Jund is a different beast. Their removal barrage makes it very hard for us stick creatures to the board, with both Liliana and Punishing Fire being major offenders. Post-board RiP is somewhat effective, but AD can answer it easily. Ironically, PF is rather good against them, too, since everything they have except Goyf dies to it. However, the red splash is subpar against combo and I have yet to see a 4 color manabase that is consistent enough to support both red and black.

What is your experience with those match-up and what cards were truely effective?

- Thrun seems like a good candidate due to being removal-resistant (pretty much only Liliana and Terminus can hit him).
- Maybe a more Walker-heavy version? Although a too top-heavy deck would probably suffer against combo and Tempo.
- Lingering Souls? On-color with the black splash, an outlet against Planeswalkers and provides resistance against Terminus.

@M@verick: Why do you think about Quirion Ranger? Same ability as Scryb Ranger, but 1 mana cheaper. It could enable T2 shenanigans with Wayfarer.

[haganbmj]

Can we discuss measures to improve our game vs UW Miracles and Punishing Jund? Not just sideboard tech, but also MD ways to stop them. Miracles is getting more popular on MODO lately and the occasional Punishing Jund is just as bad as a match-up. Since combo is as relevant as ever, running black is pretty much a given in the MODO meta.

When I play against Miracles my gameplan is usually to avoid overextending. Pridemage is a great beater in this matchup because eventually they have to answer him thanks to the exalted triggers.
I usually try and move towards sticking Sylvan Safekeeper as well to narrow their answers. From there a Teeg usually ends the match assuming you avoid walking into a Clique.
My local guys are sideboarding Pyroclasm because it plays a huge roll in your creature matchups - especially when a Rest in Peace is involved. Game two/three I have to watch for that, which does make it more difficult.

Against Punishing Jund I play towards getting an Ooze on board. They have to Abrupt Decay/Pulse him assuming you play around Punishing Fire and from there a Knight can start to control the game - both are formidable threats and can serve to occupy the Jund players resources. Ooze limits their usage of Punishing Fire as well and you can manipulate their game just by his presence.

[Barook]

When I play against Miracles my gameplan is usually to avoid overextending. Pridemage is a great beater in this matchup because eventually they have to answer him thanks to the exalted triggers.
I usually try and move towards sticking Sylvan Safekeeper as well to narrow their answers. From there a Teeg usually ends the match assuming you avoid walking into a Clique.
My local guys are sideboarding Pyroclasm because it plays a huge roll in your creature matchups - especially when a Rest in Peace is involved. Game two/three I have to watch for that, which does make it more difficult.

Against Punishing Jund I play towards getting an Ooze on board. They have to Abrupt Decay/Pulse him assuming you play around Punishing Fire and from there a Knight can start to control the game - both are formidable threats and can serve to occupy the Jund players resources. Ooze limits their usage of Punishing Fire as well and you can manipulate their game just by his presence.

Not overextending against Miracles is a given, but you also need to pressure them or they'll establish board control and you're boned. It's a double-edged sword. I'm not exactly a huge fan of Safekeeper since he's a horrible topdeck and somewhat conditional. As a SB GSZ target? Maybe, but SB slots are tight.

Ooze needs tons of mana to work against Jund since they can bolt it in response to its first activations. It also falls prey to Liliana once they've burned away your other weenies with PF. KotR is rather so-so, too - if they have DRS active, it isn't very stellar as a threat.

I'd love to give Punishing Maverick another try since it's huge in grinding out fair match-ups, but as long as its combo match-up is bad, I'm not so keen about bringing it to daily events.

@anybody playing Punishing Maverick: What do you think about the new R/G walker Xenagos?

[allek]

The best way to beat (punishing) jund is by boarding in RIP and Needle/Revoker. RIP kills 12+ cards (P-Fire, Goyf, Shaman, Lavamancer) and the needles stops Liliana which can be real troublesome. Board out a few KOTR and Ooze to minimize your own dependence on the graveyard. Also, they will bring in Engineered Plague so play accordingly and don't play multiple humans. Let Thrun/Sigarda/Elspeth or whatever you have at the end of your curve do the beating. These games are very drawn out so Sylvan Library is great for you. Unfortunately it's great for them too so you MUST use Pridemage to nuke it asap.

Miracle is a coinflip. If you resolve Gaddock and can protect it with Safekeeper you're fine but otherwise you'll probably only win if they fail to draw Terminus. Needle/Revoker is a must and Choke is nice too even though it hurts other blue decks better. Try to save a fetchland in play so that you can get Dryad Arbor EOT after Terminus, it can go a long way with some exalted triggers or a Jitte. Scryb Ranger is also good against Jace. All in all, this is the worst of the "fair" matchups so good luck!

[Fatal]

Both MU require intensive testing analysis Game 1 MD:

Punishing Jund:

Depends on version you play:

GW Straight:
Strategy - depends on draw or on play - on play you should focus on their mana, StP as soon as possible deathrite shaman, and tax with Thalia, 3 mana for decay, or punishing fire is a lot - you can tempo them out - try to empty your hand as soon as possible - their discard will be useless, attack their manabase.
EV creatures from most important - Dark Cofidant,(scavegning Ooze - not all version play them), deathrite shaman, goyf, BBE. Resolved KotR with Mom protection is mostly the win. If you starting and have Mom - try to assamble it - if she survive (PF version running less bolts) you will blind most removal. GSZ for Oozes if they have PF in gy and no chance to to pick it up, otherwise KotRs will be best target. Don't waste StP on goyfs (only if necessary) - use Oozes to small them.

MVP: Thalia on play, KotRs, Moms (only on play), StP (on shaman's and confidants), Oozes, Sylvan Library - Never board out all Pridemages, they have Sylvan Library also and most of time sb-in Umezawa's Jitte. Having Sylvan Safekeeper improve this MU.


GWb:
It's still grindy MU black splash only improve if running Dark Confidants, and more removal (Abrupt Decay's) - discard good only on start.

MVP: Same as upper + Dark Confidants, safe Abrupt Decay's vs Liliana, Lingering Souls works very vell here.

GWr with Punishing:
It's like mirror but you running more effective creatures then theirs - KotRs, Oozes and more Tutors - they can't remove Punishing Fire except wastelanding Grove, or with Shaman - so just start killing creatures from Shamans save StP to Goyfs.


Key to victory - play your creatures from hand as soon as you can - to blind their discard. You are aggresor in this MU. Beeing on play is much harder, try to slow them down with wastelands - they're running virtual less mana dorks (no GSZ) and require more colored mana then we.

Miracles:

It's much different beast then Punishing Jund - keep tempo up but never overextend, safe GSZ for Sylvan Safekeeper + Gaddock lock - play unprotected Gaddock only in critical situation - read from their brainstorms - most time its very simple know when Terminus is comming. Punishing them if they don't fetch basics.

GW straight - not running Sylvan Safekeeper is big downgrade here - you should have something in this slot like Thrun or Sigarda which can survive point removal.
Equipments here are very important since every creature will be a thread which keep up threads with small creature count on board. If Mom or you have 3+ lands and Safekeeper survive try to GSZ for Teeg and seal the game.

MVP here: Equips, GSZ, Teeg, Moms, Sylvan Safekeeper, Hexproof creatures, Thalia, Qasali Pridemages

GWb: Try to discard when they are tapout, decay CB and Rest in peace, keep same rules as GW straight - Confidants will be best here.

MVP: Same as upper + Decay's, Confidants, T1 Discard or when they're tapout - discarding SDT, or brainstorm will have huge advantage here.

GW/r Punishing - it has probably the same as upper version + you can always PF their Jaces and keep tempo with it. Same strategy as upper.

Miracles is a flipcoin question is how fast they can assamble +2 EtA and you protected Gaddock Teeg - its basically the race.

@Revoker does nothing vs Punishing Jund. Needle is better but only turn off Liliana.

@Xenagos - didn't test it yet.

[Tombstalker]

For jund it seems like going old school with LftL and bojuka bog main could help a bit. Also maybe a couple compost in the SB although these would be better if going with PF maverick to maximize their value.

M@verick- Do you find the flash ability of vial to be more desirable/essential atm as opposed to the toolbox of GSZ?

[klaus]

Do you find the flash ability of vial to be more desirable/essential atm as opposed to the toolbox of GSZ?

Don't forget that Vial not only provides superior speed, but also uncounterability. The flash surprise aspect is but a fancy bonus compared to those benefits. Plus Vial is more Thalia-friendly.

[Barook]

Thanks for the in-depth analysis, Fatal. How's Lingering Souls in the Miracle match-up, though? You didn't mention it there.

I'm probably giving a Punishing Maverick variant another try since some dude I played against today called my attention to Fabian Görzgen's Top 8 list today.

Does anyone know what the Stony Silence, Phyrexian Metamorph and Leyline of Sanctity were for?

I can't exactly see Leyline being much of a help against combo since they can either go off and bounce it mid-combo or simply ignore it (like S&T variants).

[kingtk3]

...
Does anyone know what the Stony Silence, Phyrexian Metamorph and Leyline of Sanctity were for?

I can't exactly see Leyline being much of a help against combo since they can either go off and bounce it mid-combo or simply ignore it (like S&T variants).

Given the fact that he was playing Enlightened tutor in side, I think that sotny silence was there for storm combo (shuts down LED, Petals, moxes, belcher...), painter and as a catch all answer to artifact (affinity).
In those days Phyrexian metamorph could still be used to kill opposing legends.
I share your doubts on leyline, maybe it was there to fight discard and not only combo.