Grats man!Originally Posted by specialagentcooper
I am curious how Safekeeper performs moving forward.
It's definitely hard to justify a fourth color, but he's not just a value card, he's also a [edit: assymetrical] Chains of Mephistofeles that Mother protects and with a relevant-sized body. I still want to put him back in, played him a year ago just after being released, but still hard..
But that's just what I mean. For 4 mana we can Green Sun for a way to turn off cantrips, or we could search for Knight and end the game. Sometimes Leo will be the better choice--but will it be often enough to justify a 4th color?
Devils Advocate: Just because a 4th color is hard to add is not a reason not to add it. If Leovold allows us to use cards like flusterstorm/mindbreak trap vs storm more easily, or if it allows us to run soft permission like Spell Pierce against combo decks, it might be worth it. And it's possible, assuming splashing blue is fruitful, that Leovold is the keystone that the deck has been needing to allow that transition.
Yes, I've been fidgetting with Flusterstorm and Trap too, and Back to Basics, but I need to try again, never felt that I made a good list. Seems like being able to add such powerful cards should be a possible improvement of the deck in certain matchups.
Yeah, feels like people underestimate him. You will know Leovolds merits if you've played a 8+ cantrip deck against him. He's a lockpiece. A lockpiece that punishes opponents lockpieces.
That's the thing right? Turning off cantrips on turn 2 is super strong, turning off cantrips on 4-5 less so. Turning off cantrips is decent against some decks, while storm just says "whatever" and kills you as you draw 10-15 cards.
Its definitely strong, but I wouldn't splash it willy nilly without a very thorough overhaul of the mana.
Of course it's stronger turn two than four. Versus a grindy blue deck the lategame cantrips are very valuable, as they find both answers and threats.
Sure it can be dead sometimes, but against storm in particular, around 50 cards in an average maverick deck is dead, so there's that.
I give you that warping the mana base might not be worth it and that naturally cast Leo is better than green sun zenithed Leo.
For full context; I like Leo, I just want to be careful with splashes. We have LOTS of 3drops that do awesome things in a wide range of matchups. Arguing to add a color requires for us to cross out the 3drops that don't need the color splash as being too weak, so much so that we have to change our mana base for a Zenith target. For all I know, Leo is worth it. But I have just been unwilling to bring it to a weekend/big event.
Ive played him in several small events at lgs, and he has been really powerful at times, other times he has been not as useful as i usually gsz for a knight, and if hes in hand, its a lot harder to cast if you have battling deathrites, also since i run no mainboard black cards, it becomes more straining on fetches
Im going to be running this list on sunday for the quest for power, and was wondering if you guys had any suggestions.
This is my current list im running, and wanted to know if you guys had any suggestions.
4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
1 birds of paradise
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
3 stoneforge mystic
1 qasali pridemage
1 scryb ranger
1 scavenging ooze
4 knight of the reliquary
1 ramunap excavator
1 sigarda, host of herons
4 swords to plowshares
4 green suns zenith
1 sylvan library
1 umezawas jitte
1 sword of fire and ice
1 batterskull
4 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 bayou
2 savannah
1 scrubland
2 forest
1 plains
4 wasteland
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
1 horizon canopy
1 gaeas cradle
Sideboard
3 thoughtsieze
2 surgical extraction
2 zealous persecution
2 ethersworn canonist
2 choke
1 reclamation sage
1 gaddoc teeg
1 abrupt decay
1 blessed alliance
Sigarda is great but costs a bunch of mana. Considering replacing her with either garruk relentless or renegade rallier
Nice list, try Sylvan Safekeeper in some mother slot - it's really worth. Question how good was Batterskull here since I had similar choose Skull vs Sigarda and Sigarda here wins since it's harder to remove then Skull.
Do you think its worth it to cut a mother for a safekeeper? I like batterskull a lot right now. It helps you grind and is really solid in a lot of matchups where you want more threats that can also be reused
I'm actually running 0 Mother of Runes and 2 Safekeeper and very happy with it - 2 remaining slots was used to feed new tools. Specially when opponent ends with Dead of Night which does nothing :-).
Sylvan Safekeeper have much more synergy with Maverick then Mother:
1. It's green which helps to find it with GSZ
2. It works right away - now If opponent have many removal on hand (most situation after sb) he need to FoW or counter GSZ for 1
3. It's repeatable, with - Ramunap endless, so opponent can't just use two removal.
4. It can pump Knight very very fast if needed.
It works much different then Mother of Runes, big compare with be done in new Primer, but in shorter version:
- Safekeeper is a mid/late game thread it bank removal just after resolve not only 1.
- Mother of Runes is early thread which blank 1 removal IF it survive to next turn, so If opponent will be caught with pants down - you gain value, if not it's only 1 for 1.
Nowadays decks Grixis, Czech Pile, new Miracles, BUG and similar running 5-8 removal MD/SB. It's very hard to gain additional value from Mother of Runes, specially that those SB slots are also directed to white creatures because of D&T.
Last edge over was option to bring dread of night in maverick against D&T, which resolves a lot of problems, since our white creatures X/1 was Thalia and Moms, after cut Thalia can be easily side out.
Batterskull vs Sigarda both fights over 5 cmc last weapon finish they work, but since Blade decks are on the rise I choose Sigarda to decrease number of hate cards against.
Sigarda blocks a lot of nasty cards like Liliana, Diabolic Edicts, Annihilator or All is Dust. Flying is also very big advantage in TNN presence. Sigarda is GSZable, while Skull is searched by SFM which is also very nice. Probably each player should pick up both cards and compare results to gets answer which one is better in his/her meta.
Thats super interesting. Could you post your decklist perchance? I wanna see the variantions
That's one thing I think you got completely wrong. Mom is removal protection early on, but late game she is even better. Safekeeper is strictly a defensive creature whereas mom lets you decide on which role you want to take. Surely she's not as effective at protecting but she makes knights connect, which can be quite hard to do against TNN and Strix (both are everywhere right now).
Last edited by Cpt-Qc; 08-27-2017 at 01:52 PM.
Sorry but, most time tapping mom for offensive ends very bad. IT success only if opponent doesn't have removal at all. But since resolved and survive mom block IT, you will release them when you tap her. To fight strix just use scryb, Thalia, Sofi etc..
If you're already using scryb you then have double mom protection which will generally enable to use her both offensively and defensively. Furthermore double mom allows mom to be used on offense as well as the times your opponent is hellebent or you can gauge that your opponent does not have a removal spell. None of those scenarios are corner case and do come up relatively often. TNN is one of the cards that maverick very easily loses to, the more outs the better.
Couldn't have said it better. You clearly don't want to drag the game on against control decks and guess what, TNN decks are mostly control ones. If you can't attack, you're getting behind.
This means you need Mom, Scryb Ranger and Thread - basically to blank 1 removal (and have possibility for 2 for 1) you need 3 creatures on table which lead risk against Terminus or Deluge which are common in Controls.
Same protection setup you will gain with Sylvan Safekeeper and a thread which are only two cards to so gain right away in this solution, you risk of multiple removal and it's green which is also advantage vs Dread of Night.
I don't want to force anyone to abandon Mom ( :-) ), but just try different build it will free two slots which are very precious.
If you really answer vs TNN to pierce their defense you can always try some build with Rogue's Passage or Kessig Wolf Run in splash (but I'm still not a fan of it). It's probably depends on meta, since I don't met often many TNN decks (mostly 1/8 games), SoFI mostly enough to handle them.
My actually build (still testing solutions and 1-ofs):
Core(13):
5 mana dorks - 4 shaman, 1 bop
4 KotR
4 Thalia (small)
Sfm package(5)
3 sfm
2 equips (jitte and sofi)
Bullets (7)
1 Railler
1 Ramunap
1 Pridemage
1 Ooze
1 Sigarda
1 Scryb ranger
1 Gaddock
Protection(2)
2 safekeeper
CQ/CA(2)
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Sylvan Library
Removal(4)
STP
Lands base(20)
1 dryad
8 fetchlands
2 savannah
1 bayou
1 Scrubland
2 forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
Utility lands (4) - total lands(24)
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
SB(15):
2 Abrupt
1 Path
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Canonist
1 C.Priest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Council's Judgement
2 Choke
2 Ancient Grudge //in testing
Testing now -1 Forest +1 Taiga(MD) and 2 Ancient Grudge (SB) against D&T MU. Have 4 answers after SB vs TNN (2 ZP, 1 CJ, 1 BA).
@Fatal: I wouldn't bother with the Taiga for Ancient Grudges if I were you, I always felt that one of the advantages of Maverick was always having access to artifact removal thanks to 4 GSZ + 1-2 Qasali + 0-1 Rallier + 0-3 Decay. Compare that with D&T who have 0 artifact removal md and maybe 1-2(not sure, never see them) post boarding. We're usually winning the equipment war in my experience. But sure, with the Vials there are plenty of targets you want to get. I've been sideboarding Aura Shards back and forth, it's such a house vs decks with Sylvan/Shardless/Strix/Vials/Chalice/Thopter Foundry/Equipment/Aluren/Food Chain, just destroys so many things turn after turn after turn. But still I can't quite motivate it lately (last year or two), since we already have pretty good artifact removal. I think I used it when Shardless or Stoneblade decks were extremely popular.
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