Hello everyone, longtime lurker who finally has something to contribute to the thread.
I was playing Junk Maverick at GP DC and i managed to day 2 at 7-2. I went on to lose my win and in for the money, but ended at 10-5 on the tournament, which i was happy with for my first legacy tournament. This is the list i was playing:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
Some thoughts about the deck:
I managed to dodge all unfair decks through 15 rounds of play, which i guess is pretty fortunate. I was 3-2 vs rug delver, 1-0 vs uwr delver, 0-1 vs ur delver, 1-0 vs stoneblade, 1-0 vs punishing jund, 1-0 vs merfolk, 1-1 vs elves, 1-0 vs meathooks, 1-0 vs death and taxes, and 0-1 vs miracles. Therefore, i can't speak to the combo matchup for junk maverick, though i suspect it is better due to thoughtseize.
Sigarda main was thoroughly unnecessary. I cast her exactly once (against death and taxes) and she came out against just about everything. Similarly, Gaea's Cradle ended up being more of a hindrance than a help. Against the many delver decks i lost a bunch of games to mana screw with a cradle unable to tap for anything. Splash hate for TNN has led to millions more golgari charms and the like making a return, meaning mother of runes is far less useful than ever before, and deathrite shamans are far better than nobles. Additionally, having access to engineered plague and persecution out the board to fight the TNN was very powerful. Dryad arbor has been getting on my nerves more and more. He just is so terrible in your hand, or to have submerged, or to have die to charms. I'm not sure if the t1 GSZ ramp plan or fetching to blank a sacrifice effect is really worth the slot.
Huge props to the Dark Depths/ Thespian Stage combo. I really don't understand why any KOTR deck would not play this easily slotted combo finish. Maze of Ith is at an all time uselessness. Marit Lage allows you to race just about anything: i beat Meathooks (usually extremely bad matchup) just by making a turn 4 20/20. It also makes KOTR a must-kill even if your opponent is playing significant graveyard hate. Suddenly maverick feels like a combo deck, and your opponent has to play around it. I naturally drew the combo under a standstill one game for the complete blowout. Scryb Ranger is especially insane for powering knight into searching up the combo in a single turn.
Takeaways: KOTR and GSZ are still very powerful options and tools in the legacy world, and all of my wins seem to have come from KOTR. I think the main configuration of durdly little hate bears might require some serious examination in the future. I think i would cut down on them significantly for things like SoFI, Liliana, and more lands instead of mana dorks. Perhaps the deck needs to add more Junk elements to be competitive.
Very nice report/analysis!Originally Posted by Provost
I was experimenting with a GWB build that cut all of the X/1 (some might not even consider it maverick anymore), eliminating the splash hate from decks running -X/-X effects. In fact I was running my own golgari charms.
I think my friend and I talked to you after one of your day 2 matches, thanks for the write up! What was your side board?
Guys, i'm searching for appropriate answer against TNN with straight GW version? is holy light good enough ? it could take care of snapcasters, clilques, confidants, strixes etc too.
what are you thinking about wing shards ? btw., would be return to Natural order maverick (for straight GW version) good choice ? Still, 10/10 in 3rd turn is far more frightening than 3/1...
controls
Race it? KotR is bigger, exalted beats are bigger, equipped guys are bigger, etc. Mom and creatures with flying gets you past any blockers too... If you're worried about equipment - isn't that what pridemage is in the deck for?
NO is certainly a viable choice still, but Proggy isn't the best target for NO in the current meta. IMO ruric thar, the unbowed, craterhoof behemoth and worldspine wurm are better targets to pick from.
wouldnt be empyrial archangel better choice for NO target against TNN decks ?
Yea, she'd work as well, and is a viable choice if you see burn decks too. From my experience with NO - not having a blue shell (pre-MM banning) to protect your "combo" makes it significantly more risky to rush into - especially in a format with Liliana of the Veil now floating around. The advantage of running with craterhoof behemoth is that plumping him down with 3 other creatures in play lets you swing with at least 21 trample damage, plus your critters base damage. It gives maverick the flourish of a combo finish once you've played through 3-5 turns. It's still a faster clock than True-Name Nemesis and doesn't care if they're holding him back to block - nor give them turns to find an answer/kill your fatty.
Just do like D&T and play sword of FAI
sofai is offensive card, and i need defensive mechanism against TNNs ;)
btw., about racing with nemesis
Lets be realistic, TNN is played in control/midrange decks with lots of control elements, and if you are already racing with them, you are already in win position. But, good control players won't allow that, its going to sound weird - we need to control game. Honestly, deep in heart, maverick is "control" deck with many tools against control. Natural state of game against those decks is that control decks must interact with our proactive answers and we must put pressure, but now its different. Now WE must find answer for uninteractive stupid creature. Racing is not the option. Maybe one of the options, but not that relevant - because overextending against control is not the smartest idea. Nemesis can't be stoped with thalia, teeg, mother of runes, maze of ith, stp, jitte, qasali, canonist, mindcensor, etc... and that is problem. Of corse, you can put pressure, but i need specific card against TNN, like empyrial archangel, or holy light. So i want more suggestions :D
Holy light actually seems like a pretty decent card to fight TNN in the straight GW version. It is only marginally worse than zealous persecution and can also help in the (very difficult) elves MU. Will try it out.
Surprised to see not all GWb versions run bob, wouldn't it be one of the main reasons to splash?
Celestial Flare was used by the SCG Dallas UW Stoneblade winner and also by another SCG Dallas top 16 UW Stoneblade list, presumably to combat opposing TNNs. That has potential as a maindeck answer to not only TNN, but other nonsense like Mongoose, Geist (although TNN has replaced him for the most part) or Mother of Runes-protected creatures.
Haha I think i remember you guys, one of you was on death and taxes, correct?
My SB was:
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Abrubt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Life from the Loam
Zealous persecution is really, really good when it is good, and an excellent way to combat TNN.
I think the best way to beat TNN for maverick is to be proactive. We get a lot bigger than 3/1. GWb has so many more answers to TNN than GW, but i faced decks packing celestial flare to answer TNN and that seems to be the best/most efficient answer.
Marit Lage did an excellent job of beating TNN for me in DC. TNN can be relied upon so much as an evasive creature that Blade decks aren't running Lingering Souls anymore, and Fish never played fliers in the first place. A 20/20 flying is usually good enough, and if it isn't, you're probably gaining 20 life from a Plow and winning the race that way. Roll with a set of Knights and a Crop Rotation or two and the combo is surprisingly easy to assemble. Just be sure to sacrifice down to 0 Forests so you don't get Submerged.
What do you think about tidehollow sculler in place of thalia in GWb mav? He doens't increase the mana of our noncreature spells and exiles a threat.
I think this would weaken the Combo-Matchup. Tidehollow Skuller would be Discard 3-6, but to fight combo appropriately it's necessary to split your hate. Most combo decks can recover easily from discard but have problems with persisting hate in form of hatebears. Also, most storm decks are dead against a Thalia G1.
He exiles a removal spell if they have any. He's less offensive and doesn't punish cantripping/non-removal spells. Thalia is a lot better.
I have been thinking about getting into legacy and was hoping to start with maverick. This is the list I am currently working on. Any feedback is appreciated.
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
2 Sylvan Library
3 Punishing Fire
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
4 Winswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
SB:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Pyroclasm
3 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Choke
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elspeth, Knigh-Errant
1 Bojuka Bog
The Gaddock Teeg is against combo and the like. The Rhox War Monk is for the aggro matchups such as goblins and burn. The Sigarda is there against anything I think has sac effects for Marit Lage. The Pyroclasms are also for anything with a buch of small creatures, D&T and goblins. The Goglari Charms are enchantment hate as well as my solution to TNN. The Pithing Needle is against planeswalkers(Jace, Liliana, etc.). The additional Thalia is against combo and control. The choke is against anything blue. The life from the loam is a way to get card advantage against control and tempo as well as my way of dealing with land destruction. The Ashen Rider comes in against Show and Tell. The Elspeth is against control. The Bojuka Bog is GY hate. The SB is the least worked on part. Again, any help is appreciated.
glad to see you join the mav ranks!
some suggestions. first of all, your creature count is simply too low. you've got too many utility spells without enough actual guys to beat-down with. also, 8 mana dorks (deathrite has other uses, but is primarily a mana dork) is also, simply, too many. 4 is the standard number to run, but i wouldn't fault anyone for running between 3 and 6, depending of course on what else is in their lists. since you're trying to play 4-color, i would recommend having at least one birds of paradise in there as a GSZ target, because it is the only way you can consistently make any color. birds also carry equipment like a boss. speaking of which, your choice of only one SOLAS seems subpar. for most metagames, 1x jitte and 1x batterskull is, i would say, the standard equipment package. of course, if you don't run stoneforge, batterskull gets a helluva lot worse. thus, not knowing your metagame, i would recommend 1x jitte if you are going to only run one piece of equipment. if you wanted to run 2, 1x jitte and 1x sword of x and y (or possibly just 2x jitte) is probably the way to go.
as far as your lands are concerned, the depths/stage combo isn't fantastic without weathered wayfarer or crop rotation. using two knight activations to tutor up the combo is really slow, when you should just be beating down with gigantic knights instead, or using your knights to waste-lock your opponent. horizon canopy is also a very unusual choice outside of straight GW builds or wayfarer builds.
in summary, you've got a lot of different packages/ideas going on in your deck, many of which are very strong. however, i would try to give the deck more focus. that is, i'd recommend you pick two of the following packages and build the rest of the deck around those:
1) punishing groves combo
2) stoneforge/equipment package
3) stage/depths
4) aether vial / wayfarer
most commonly you will see packages 1 and 2 together, which gives you the standard "punishing mav" list, or you will see 3 and 4 together, which gives you the "vial mav" list (although it's not uncommon to see 2, 3 and 4 together as well in a vial mav build).
hope that helps. enjoy the mav!
I was thinking of a good answer for show and tell variants and I would like your opinion about Parallax Wave. If the opponent uses SnT and you put it into play, it will be useful even with a grisel, emrakul, omniscience or sneak attack, although only give you some time.
i'd rather go for Sigarda with Maze of Ith, KOTR to fetch Karakas or good old Oblivion Ring for SnT decks.
While Parallax Wave can be played on its own, its 4cc is what makes me think twice. Though it can't be Abrupt Decay-ed, it will die anyway due to the fading. I find it a win-more card since you'll most likely exile everything to get an alpha strike in, but at that point your board presence will lead you to win a few turns later anyway.
my 2 cents
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