Well before cutting E-tutor I would bring in: 1 Bog, 1 Crypt, 2 Tutors 2 PtE against Dredge. Having more removal and less "durdling around looking for Crypt" seems like a more sure-fire way to play. They can still get you early with LED/Faithless looting; but more often they take a few turns to get setup. Thalia also helps out in this matchup to slow them from casting spells. The key is to stall with Ooze and get Jitte online to control their Ichorids/Narcomoebas, remove Bridges, then grind them out.
Reanimator is still a race to find Karakas. They still beat you with turn 2 Jin regardless - not much can change that outside of Surgical Extraction. Oftentimes, they are even just on the Show and Tell plan, so not sure how much the G/Y hate helps out more.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
I see.. I'm always wondering how people use so little gy hate to beat these matchups. I guess its somewhat luck then/Originally Posted by Koby
I'm sticking with the e-tutor sideboard because, even if it's not card advantage, the sideboard is made to awnser the matchups that you usually don't win. I prefer having somehow 4 of almost each sideboard card, just by adding 2 enlightened tutors. I don't know what i'll face each time so i prefer to be ready for everything i fear.
There is no knowledge that it not power.
Edit: N/m
Last edited by P.S.; 04-03-2012 at 11:23 AM. Reason: NEVERMIND!
Ignore it, play around it....
In the punishing fire version of maverick is possible to use Thalia not MD but 2 in SB against combo match??? If right how many is the right number (2 or 3)???
Thanks
put 2-3 thalia's in sideboard. Against combo you should sb in thalias, and sb out punishing fires.
Don't play maindeck thalia with punishing fire - it doesn't make sense.
I know Thalia negate the usefulness of Pfire and i'll use in SB in backup vs combo.
You think 2 Thalia are enough?
My SB is:
2 E Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod Crypt
1 Stony Silence
1 Serenity
2 Choke
2 E Canonist
1 RhoxWM
1 PTE
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Thalia???
Thank's in advance
Storm, High Tide, and Show and Tell/Sneak Attack/Hive Mind is a crapshoot already and we really do not have any sort of clock on these decks. I've been testing and I have pretty much dropped Enlightened Tutor from the SB since Thalia in play makes it suboptimal especially when you draw into it. Your E tutor will most likely go for a Canonist anyway since all your other SB artifacts + enchantments cost 1 more w/ Thalia in play. I upped the Canonist count to 3. I've added Aven Mindcensor back MD to potentially hinder the Tutors/Scrollls/Intuitions + flying is awesome. I'm dedicating SB slots mainly towards the Stoneblade + mirror at the moment.
Not sure if I'm doing SBing vs Storm correctly, but I keep the Jitte's for the pumps to put a fast clock on. I do concede that the turn where I put Jitte into play provides them an opening to combo off.
My list for reference:
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Maze of Ith
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 3 Gut Shot
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
@tarmox
Well, thalia is more "maindeck" material.
etherworn canonist and gaddock teeg are fetchable, and maybe better for sb as additional hosers against combo.
@Wizard
Yes i know....... Maybe my right question is: its possible/useful to use Thalia in Pfire Mav or she only add drawbacks???
everything is possible, but when you look at it carefully, it is anti-synergistic. The main purpose of punishing fire is to cast it multiples times. If it cost 1 more each time, it is becoming a bit mana expensive.
If your meta is mainly aggro and elves and other stuff like that, go with the punishing version. If your meta is more control and combo with some aggro in the mix, then you should opt for the thalia build.
There is no knowledge that it not power.
I am curious about the 1 of Linvala, Keeper of Silence in the board. The issue I see is that there is NO way to fetch her up with this deck. To make matters worse, the deck she's best against (Elves) the fastest you could even hardcast her is turn 3 (which would probably crush their plans...but much later than turn 3 isn't very useful). I know the main reason is actually against opposing Maverick decks, but again, with no ways to fetch her you're hoping for the long drawn out game, of course by that time she shuts down...stoneforge cheating equipment (not very useful), Scavenging Ooze (useful..but in the late game he's most likely already big), Knight of the Reliquary (still useful, but again in the late game he's probably monstrous) and of course stopping Noble Heirarch/Dryad arbor from providing mana (again..in the late game, not a big deal). The fact that you're only running 1 sylvan library pretty much means that more often than not you won't see her when you need her. Don't get me wrong, I like 1 of's in the sideboard, but I use the E-tutor package, in that instance to give me psuedo 3-4 of's, I don't see how using any 1 of's you can't search for in an aggro deck is that viable of an option.
Linvala also shuts down Mom/Pridemage/Ranger. But, I do agree with what you have said. It is definitely one of the more questionable slots in the SB since it is untutorable + the only 1 of 4 drops I was ever comfortable with was the Elspeth and sometimes a MD Thrun. I'm still trying it out and was thinking of upping the count to 2 in the SB and cutting the Krosan Grip or just replacing Linvala with another Elspeth SB. I honestly do not have too many qualms with having an untutorable high CC 1 of since it is something you do not want to have multiples of (e.g. 2 Elepseths) in your opener as they are dead cards in the opening turns.
I've also been considering cutting the third Ooze for a second library to better find the 1 + 2 of's in the MD/SB since Ooze, while useful in the mid-late game, is situationally good in the early game because there might not be anything useful in the graveyard yet. I think it has helped establish my board position early by encouraging my opponent's to use early removal on it that otherwise would have been used on KoTR. Ooze is not going to get as big anytime soon vs SFM decks since StP + PtE are used extensively as removal. The main way I see it getting to eat up creatures is if a Jitte has been used. Eating lands to shrink opposing KoTR/awesome MD grave hate is a key reason it is used so maybe my expectations shouldn't extend too far beyond that.
IMO,the 1 of Linvala in the SB is good in the loyal retainers maverick variant. It'll work very well against stone-blades and mirror maverick decks.
Linvala seems good as a 1-of against the mirror. I don't think her being unfetchable is that relevant. She's proactive and pretty bomby, so I think it's fine to rip in an opening 7 or in top-deck mode. I can't see running multiples due to the competition for the 4cc slot and her being Legendary.
I agree that Thalia is main deck material.
I'm actually thinking about including a fourth in the main.
Thalia just improves all our bad matchups. I would like to see one in every opener except in the mirror or against heavy aggro (but then we should side them out obv).
Since Thalia is so strong and does not work at all with Punishing Fire, I think we should not play Punishing Fire anymore. Besides, I usually see the GW version score better anyway.
Arguing that Linvala is "bad" because she's a one-of and can't be tutored is a terrible argument. Should we cut Elspeth also? She's untutorable and also a one-of?
Linvala improves the mirror and i definetly need to test if Linvala and/or Gideon gives the edge which i'm currently looking for.
I mean, it's not even hard to protect her. With Mom and Karakas you can softlock your opponent out of the game.
Perhaps you misread what I wrote. I am by no means claiming Linvala is bad nor that she doesn't belong in Maverick. My point is more a statistical one. As a 1 of in the deck that can't be tutored for (outside the fauna shaman build), the likelihood that you will see her within the first 15 turns is quite low (discounting fetches) it should be around 37% (1/60 *22 oppurtunities..and yes I know it's actually 1/60+1/59+1/58...but I don't feel like calculating that)
Maybe it's just a string of bad MTGO shuffles, maybe its a string of bad luck - but I feel that the increased land count (23) and 3 Thalias are hurting the deck's consistency compared to having tutoring plan with Stoneforge Mystic. This is especially true playing against decks that aren't Stoneblade/RUG/mirror.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
