[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[ivanpei]

I'm aware that stifle doesn't stop dark depths triggering as it will just trigger again due to state checking. I was referring to thespian stage being stifled when the copy is on the stack. If you are looking to race tempo and spend 2 turns activating knight for the combo and a full turn of mana activating the stage just to be timewalked by a stifle, you get blowned out. You are better off using knight to swing and try to race delver.

Thanks for pointing out my confusing statement though. Although if you have a ground stall, then yes the combo is pretty much stifle proof. Or stifle just buy a turn. The combo just packs so much power. I've actually raced a dreadnought-torpor orb deck before with t1 noble, T2 knight. His discard obviously went for my pridemage and gsz, but since I was packing the combo I buried him with knight.

Gw needs some explosive raw Power at times. Gw is a super fair deck, we don't have unfair shenanigans like punishing fire, bloodbraid, Jace, shardless into visions etc. The dark depths combo is the closest to broken shenanigans we can get for a very low cost of 1 potential dead card and 1 colourless land. With Nemesis entering the fray, we need some broken stuff to flatout race Nemesis.

Actually drawing the dark depths isn't that bad. I sand bag it and lay knight first usually. My opponent usually thinks he has 2 turns to end the game because I need 2 knight activations. When I Untap with knight the next turn I'll just lay the sandbagged dark depths and be like "surprise!" and activate knight for the other part of the combo.

[.Ix]

I agree with ivanpei. Depths is a rock solid addition to Maverick, especially now that we're a little worried that our knights are getting all skinny.

@Ironclad
Instant speed bounce and exile spells can beat the token. That's pretty much it.

[barcode]

Very interesting, so what are the possible blowouts that can disrupt the Depths + Stage combo?

Karakas, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Ensnaring Bridge, any flier with protection from black (say, a Scryb Ranger with a SoFaF), Maze of Ith, Humility, Aven Mindcensor (for KoTR searching)...

Lots of answers and when it is answered you're down a huge number of resources and will almost always lose.

[klaus]

Karakas, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Ensnaring Bridge, any flier with protection from black (say, a Scryb Ranger with a SoFaF), Maze of Ith, Humility, Aven Mindcensor (for KoTR searching)...
Lots of answers and when it is answered you're down a huge number of resources and will almost always lose.

Keep in mind though that we have pre-emptive answers to most their answers:
Mangara/Waste their Karakas, Waste, Maze // STP their flier (Strix is the most common problem)

Marit Lage is merely a plan B which does not involve much downsides, apart from that singleton Dark Depths.
I'm very happy with my testing results so far (wins about 20% of my games) and assume that a large quantity Maverick builds will adopt that tech sooner or later, with sooner being better since many opponents are not prepared or even acquainted with this trick yet.

[Megadeus]

Why is Strix so bad for you in this situation? I mean sure they chump for a turn, but what deck playing Baleful strix actually has a way to remove Lage? Other than Lily/Jace Shardless is stone cold dead

[Tombstalker]

Stage depths is a great addition to maverick. I was rocking it in the GSZ version but having switched to vial maverick recently based closely off Klaus and Doors shell I have to say the combo is straight better in the vial version. There must be around 5-6 cards total in the game that can tutor ANY land (at least legacy viable) and vial mav plays 3 of those :-)

As for answers to marit lage the most annoying so far ive found is submerge and karakas.

[.Ix]

Karakas, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Ensnaring Bridge, any flier with protection from black (say, a Scryb Ranger with a SoFaF), Maze of Ith, Humility, Aven Mindcensor (for KoTR searching)...

Lots of answers and when it is answered you're down a huge number of resources and will almost always lose.

In addition to what Klaus wrote, you'll probably have Mother of Runes or Safekeeper in play before the Depths combo shows up. Mother beats blockers, Safekeeper deals with Karakas and Maze, though you probably shouldn't do the combo with Maze/Karakas/active Knight on the opponent's side.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that the combo should almost always be played on the end step. This eliminates a lot of things from the list of possible answers, reducing it to just the instant speed stuff. If you think the opponent can answer with anything at all, you can always just not do the combo and stick with plan A.

[Koby]

What are some thoughts regarding the choice of control-breaker:

Sigarda?
Planeswalker?
Equipment?
Thrun?

Considering this list:

3 Noble Hierarch
2 DRS
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia (downgraded to fit 2nd Ooze)
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
4 KotR

2 SFM
1 Jitte
1 SoFI
1 SoLS

4 GSZ
4 StP
2 Sylvan Library

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy (would like a 2nd)
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains

So in this list I want to fit in one more top-end Zenith target; and I'm banking on Sigarda for that to beat Liliana & Emrakul alike. What do you guys think is the next most cutable creature/equipment? What would be the next most cutable land to get a 2nd Horizon Canopy?

EDIT: made some changes after initial thoughts and chats with other Maverick players.
-1 Verdant Catacombs
+1 Horizon Canopy
-1 KotR
+1 Sigarda

Alt: +1 KotR and go to 61 cards.

[Teluin]

I'd say either DRS or Noble.

[buloid]

hi all,

in an open meta where im choosing to play Dark Maverick, Thoughtseize board, what would you suggest i do given the following choices?

a.) Thrun or Sigarda?
b.) Maze of Ith or Yavimaya Hollow?



edit: typos

[personalbackfire]

hi all,

in an open meta where im choosing to play Dark Maverick, Thoughtseize board, what would you suggest i do given the following choices?

a.) Thrun or Sigarda?
b.) Maze of Ith or Yavimaya Hollow?

I've recently picked up this deck and would be interested in hearing the response to these questions too.

Also, if playing Dark Maverick with 3 Thalia main, would playing 2 Lingering Souls and 2-3 Thoughtseize main be too much anti-synergy especially given the context that there is also some anti-synergy with Teeg and GSZ?

[ironclad8690]

Personally I would play thrun and maze of ith. I would put lingering souls in the sideboard, but thoughtseize is fine alongside thalia. Curving t1 thoughtseize t2 thalia is rad vs any combo deck.

[buloid]

I've recently picked up this deck and would be interested in hearing the response to these questions too.

Also, if playing Dark Maverick with 3 Thalia main, would playing 2 Lingering Souls and 2-3 Thoughtseize main be too much anti-synergy especially given the context that there is also some anti-synergy with Teeg and GSZ?

i agree. put the Souls in the sideboard, and having thoughtseize main is acceptable given that Thalia is almost always kill on sight to some decks.

@ironclad8690

interesting choices. that's my current setup now and i'm toying with Y. Hollow and Sigarda because Maze of ith is almost always useless against RUG where hollow is better for its attrition (forget wasteland for purposes of discussion) and the fact that it produces mana.

Sigarda wins vs Jund and Shardless Bug where Maze of Ith is also ok, but hollow doesn't do as much.

Also, given Sunyveil's new tech Master of the Hunt, would that be a better choice over Thrun? His MTGO setup has both Master and Sigarda main, but no Thrun! /confused

[Barook]

i agree. put the Souls in the sideboard, and having thoughtseize main is acceptable given that Thalia is almost always kill on sight to some decks.

@ironclad8690

interesting choices. that's my current setup now and i'm toying with Y. Hollow and Sigarda because Maze of ith is almost always useless against RUG where hollow is better for its attrition (forget wasteland for purposes of discussion) and the fact that it produces mana.

Sigarda wins vs Jund and Shardless Bug where Maze of Ith is also ok, but hollow doesn't do as much.

Also, given Sunyveil's new tech Master of the Hunt, would that be a better choice over Thrun? His MTGO setup has both Master and Sigarda main, but no Thrun! /confused

I'm following Sunyveil's tech closely and play a similiar list - I would go with Maze and Sigarda.

I can't agree with the RUG analysis. Maze can still stop Delvers and Goyfs in a pinch. Sure, Hollow provides mana in certain match-ups where Maze is dead like disco, but I can't see the benefits of Hollow. Hell, I would rather run the DD combo over Hollow.

Landing Sigarda against Jund is a prime strategy to victory since they simply can't remove or stop it at all. Sigarda is pretty great as a high-end GSZ target, with only Terminus and other sweepers being a downside.

MotWH is mainly in the board against BUG Shardless since they have alot of trouble to remove it while his nuke ability wrecks them. He blows against anything running Bolts, though.

[oSeabass]

How would a GW version beat a deck like Show & Tell. In the old days, you could just run Gilded Drake or Blazing Archon to stop them from winning, but now a days a lot of people games 2 just wait to get there with Sneak Attack so you don't get a chance to have your fatty.

Thalia slows them down, but having such a fast clock to really threaten a Griselbrand is very tough. I have tried Linvala to stop Griselbrand activations since you can actually cast her... but still it is very slow and is just dead to Emrakul.

[Koby]

How would a GW version beat a deck like Show & Tell. In the old days, you could just run Gilded Drake or Blazing Archon to stop them from winning, but now a days a lot of people games 2 just wait to get there with Sneak Attack so you don't get a chance to have your fatty.

Thalia slows them down, but having such a fast clock to really threaten a Griselbrand is very tough. I have tried Linvala to stop Griselbrand activations since you can actually cast her... but still it is very slow and is just dead to Emrakul.

O-ring, KotR (into Karakas), Sigarda to prevent Emrakul blow-outs, Maze of Ith, Mom + flyer; or combinations of all of the above will help.

[oSeabass]

Thoughts on the Dark Depths/Thespian Stage combo in Maverick. Is it worth adding in the extra lands to replace some of the other utility lands?

[ironclad8690]

O-ring, KotR (into Karakas), Sigarda to prevent Emrakul blow-outs, Maze of Ith, Mom + flyer; or combinations of all of the above will help.

Also phyrexian revoker (though usually seen in vial versions). Combinations of weenies can be pretty good, thalia/teeg/pridemage + a well timed wasteland can be enough to tempo them out and tutor up karakas to seal the game. Crop rotation gives you another way to get karakas out of the board. Choke can even stop them sometimes.

[Pans-Advocate]

What was the latest evaluation of Loyal Retainers? Too clunky? Is Fauna Shaman not good enough? Does Dark Depths make it obsolete as a potential "I win" combo? Has anyone been using it successfully recently?

[Barook]

O-ring, KotR (into Karakas), Sigarda to prevent Emrakul blow-outs, Maze of Ith, Mom + flyer; or combinations of all of the above will help.

That's how you deal with S&T mainly. They normally need to find a Sneak Attack to win. Teeg slows them down, forcing them to S&T Sneak Attack into play. Pithing Needle is also great, since Revoker dies to Pyroclasm.