[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Valtrix]

Punishing Mav beats tribal more handily than GW mav. Punishing Mav also has a better match-up vs. RUG and UW.

The case I'm making is that you can run normal GW Maverick with SFM for jitte or maybe even batterskull. This takes no more slots than punishing fire/groves would.

Umezawa's Jitte is good in most match-ups and is a better catch-all, but Merfolk will often-times run their own for the legend rule (heck, even Elves is running a copy of Jitte). It's true, Punishing Fire can be eaten by an Ooze or Extracted, but it's solid tech vs. Tribal and I believe Punishing is more favorable vs. most non-combo blue decks.

Is this really an argument? Jitte is worse than punishing fire against Merfolk because they run their own Jitte? I'd be pretty terrified if they had Jitte. Plus, you can get Batterskull too which they just lose to. Punishing fire/groves just takes too much work to setup, when you can just play a Jitte and get the same effect with a single card.

[Esper3k]

The benefit to playing Pfires is that you gain a better aggro and control matchup in addition to better sideboard options. The drawback here is that you have less consistency and less GSZ toolbox options.

Yes, you can say Jitte is also removal but it's much slower and requires you to get it on a creature and attacking.

[zulander]

You want to beat tribal add red for real removal like bolt, not PFires. Also, add goyf back into the deck. He freaking wrecks goblins and merfolk. I enjoy big zoo for this reason, I run knights, goyfs, oozes, qpm, 8 1 mana removal spells, jittes, and flex removal spots like arc trail/grim lavamancer. If you're gonna stay in gw maverick shell then you're going to run into problems with decks that can swarm you since maverick really only runs 4 scary creatures (knights), all the other ones are mainly there to supplement knight or stop other mid range decks.

[Koby]

I can echo that - Big Zoo or Zoo in general is one of the ways to beat the growing Tribal trend. However, that is only a good idea when the metagame is infested with them. It won't make sense against a wide-open field with any number of unfair strategies not held in check.

[_erbs_]

@koby
maybe big zoo can take a page out of the mav's play book by adding thalia in the sb vs combo decks.

yup big zoo can own mav or tribal easy, but te question is why, nobody is playing it and people are keep on pushing with punishing mav. they almost have the same card pool. even if you add thalia in the big zoo list casting R +1 cc for a bolt is still worth it over a 3cc pfires.

[Water_Wizard]

The benefit to playing Pfires is that you gain a better aggro and control matchup in addition to better sideboard options. The drawback here is that you have less consistency and less GSZ toolbox options.

Yes, you can say Jitte is also removal but it's much slower and requires you to get it on a creature and attacking.

+1

You want to beat tribal add red for real removal like bolt, not PFires. Also, add goyf back into the deck. He freaking wrecks goblins and merfolk. I enjoy big zoo for this reason, I run knights, goyfs, oozes, qpm, 8 1 mana removal spells, jittes, and flex removal spots like arc trail/grim lavamancer. If you're gonna stay in gw maverick shell then you're going to run into problems with decks that can swarm you since maverick really only runs 4 scary creatures (knights), all the other ones are mainly there to supplement knight or stop other mid range decks.

+1

I can echo that - Big Zoo or Zoo in general is one of the ways to beat the growing Tribal trend. However, that is only a good idea when the metagame is infested with them. It won't make sense against a wide-open field with any number of unfair strategies not held in check.

+1

...

Additionally, the Pyroblasts in the board of Punishing Mav / Zoo (if you run Pyroblast in your Zoo list) wreck Merfolk. Pyroblast is a PTE, except better because it doesn't give them an Island, grows you Goyf (+1 to playing Goyf against Tribal), and can be eaten by your Ooze.

One final note, I don't think Punishing Fires takes up more room than Thalia. If anything, they take up the same amount of room. You are running the same number of lands (23) in both decks and in the Punishing Fire version you add 3 Punishing Fires and 1 Life from the Loam (to support your weaker mana base) for 4 Thalias. You also swap a Noble Heirarch for a Birds of Paradise and make some switches in the mana base to support R, but neither package takes up more room. They are just good against different decks. I'll make a broad generalization here and say Thalia is better against all 'unfair' decks while Punishing Fire is better against all 'fair' decks.

Anyhow, enough of this Punishing Maverick talk. It was just an idea I brought up in anticipation of a revival of Tribal and it's turned into a major debate (as I guess most things do on The Source).

[Dzra]

Just thinking out loud here... but what about something janky like a Natural Order SB plan into like Elderscale Wurm. GG Elves/Goblins/Burn (the worst ones). Merfolk has counters/Submerge, but I don't think it's too bad a MU anyways.

[xiaocho]

Not necessarily.

If ur having trouble against tribal decks, just go with 4 stoneforge mystics and some jitte's.

[.:saturno:.]

PF are useless and worst VS S&S, combo and reanimator.
aggro deck like merfolk and goblin are bye! if u have some problems add mystic into jitte or another path.
PS:
scryb ranger is god vs merfolk.

instead elf is a bad matchup and i dont know how play vs it.
now elf has responses vs linvala and canonist, my generic sb. vs this match.
which are the best card vs elf???

[Esper3k]

Not necessarily.

If ur having trouble against tribal decks, just go with 4 stoneforge mystics and some jitte's.

PF are useless and worst VS S&S, combo and reanimator.
aggro deck like merfolk and goblin are bye! if u have some problems add mystic into jitte or another path.
PS:
scryb ranger is god vs merfolk.

instead elf is a bad matchup and i dont know how play vs it.
now elf has responses vs linvala and canonist, my generic sb. vs this match.
which are the best card vs elf???

Simply adding more Jitte / Stoneforge is not the solution for fighting aggro decks. Typically, Jitte costs you 5W to get online (1W for Stoneforge, 4 to play Jitte & Equip). During that time, Merfolk can have multiple lords out to get out of Jitte killing range, Goblins can have built up an army and are swinging for lethal, and Elves can very well have gone off with Glimpse.

Vs aggro decks, you need cheap, cost efficient removal to survive the early turns. Jitte is there to seal the deal once you've stabilized.

[xiaocho]

well if the merfolk player gets lord after lord there's hardly anything u can do against him. he just got lucky.

same goes for u getting jitte online in the 3rd turn.

As for me sfm+jitt is all i need to have a positive matchup with my decklist.

[Esper3k]

It's not very probable for us to get a Jitte online on T3. That requires us to go T1 Hierarch, T2 Stoneforge, T3 play Jitte, Equip without missing a land drop or them Force/Dazing.

Assuming you use the Stoneforge's activated ability to drop the Jitte so it doesn't get countered, we still don't have an active creature to put it on.

The way you beat the multiple Lord hands is to just crush them with removal, which is what Pfires helps with. If you get PFires active and can keep them to 1 Lord on the board at a time, you can just pick off Lords as they play them. PFires is also great at dealing with the Phantasmal Images that are so popular these days. Post board, you have access to Pyroblast/REBs as well. Finally, you don't play PFires instead of the Stoneforge package, you play it in addition to it.

[Thorondor]

if you play more jitte instead of mystic you can hardcast turn 2 with daze mana open and equip turn 3.

[Esper3k]

if you play more jitte instead of mystic you can hardcast turn 2 with daze mana open and equip turn 3.

On your... Noble Hierarch? Also, are you.suggesting playing more than 2 Jittes in order to achieve this?

[Esper3k]

Honestly, in my experience, Batterskull is better than Jitte for surviving those early Merfolk-nutting-lords-on-your-face turns. It's easier to get active against Merfolk and immediately has an effect on the board when you drop it (usually kills one of your guys while negating another through the life gain).

However, I think Batterskull is still fairly bad in the current meta, but that might change if aggro tribal (I don't count current Elves lists as aggro anymore) continues to gain in popularity.

[Thorondor]

I agree, that there is no room for a batterskull atm. We just need to hope we can survive the onslaught and then win with bigger creatures, maze, scryb ranger....
and need maybe some slots in the sideboard, but it is still not sure that merfolk will make a comeback. I don't see it coming right now.

[Valtrix]

I don't think batterskull is bad in the current meta at all. RUG Delver and Tribal both almost auto-lose to that card if it gets into play. Additionally, control decks are starting to see more play, and the recursion of batterskull is very hard to deal with unless they are able to counterspell it.

[kohulk]

One other option against tribal decks is loyal retainers/elesh norn. Sure you need to work and keep fauna shaman active, but when elesh resolves its game over. Have tested and came to the conclusion that in order to work we have to aim for this plan to work. That means at least 3 fauna shamans, sylvan safekeeper and even quirion ranger along with sryb ranger.

[emrakultenticles]

need some criticism on some interested tech that I for 1 have not yet seen addressed, but first let me post my decklist:
creatures-25
4x Mother of runes
4x Noble hierarch
4x knight of the reliquary
3x thalia, gaurdian of thraben
2x scavenging ooze
2x qasali pridemage
1x painter's servant
1x scryb ranger
1x aven mindscensor
1x dryad arbor
1x Ulven wald tracker
1x Stoneforge mystic

Spells-10
4x sword to plowshares
4x green sun's zenith
2x enlightened tutor

Walkers-1
1x elspeth knight-errant

equiptment-2
1x sword of body and mind
1x umezawa's jitte

Lands-23
4x savannah
4x windswept heath
4x wasteland
2x cavern of souls
1x gaea's cradle
1x dryad arbor
1x karakas
1x maze of ith
1x horizon canopy
2x forest
1x planes

SB
2x choke
2x ethersworn cannonist
1x phyrexian revoker
1x krosan grip
2x surgical extracion
1x bojuka bog
1x umezawa's jitte
1x peacekeeper
1x grindstone
1x true believer
1x linvala, keeper of silence
1x gaddok teeg

first I chose to add Painter's servant in the main deck it creates interesting synergy with GSZ, mother of runes, and sword of body and mind (Naming Green)
second was the sword of body and mind I added so I can protect knight/ooze from submerge/mind harness and also makes my dude unblockable if servant is online.
with these changes it allows me to GSZ for any creature I need (Revoker, thalia, mother of runes, ethersworn cannonist, ect)
with the main deck changes I chose to run surgical extractions because of the synergy with sword of body and mind, and grindstone for obvious reasons.
sword of body and mind also acts like a all you can eat buffet for ooze.
im not really sure if this is the correct route to take with Maverick and it may just be just some "cute" tech, but that is why I come to you with this idea before I decide to give it a try.

any assistance and guidance on this would be greatly appreciated!

[Kuma]

If you name green with Painter's Servant, you can't equip Sword of Body and Mind to any of your guys and if it's already equipped it falls off.

Seems like Painter's Servant is too cute to be worth running, but I'm interested in hearing how it does for you.