Hi, what are those extra slots you are switching to Mindcensors? Atm my meta is full of Dredge (40%) and Reanimator (10-20%) so I'm playing this list
Creatures(27)
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mother of Runes
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Terravore
1x Aven Mindcensor
Spells(11)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands(22)
4x Savannah
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Bojuka Bog
SB:
3 Gut Shot
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to Exile
2 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Maze of Ith
2 Surgical Extraction
I' not sure is Tower of the Magistrate needed in SB. Maybe replace it with another Path. I also would like to add another Mindcensor in MD but don't know what to remove . Any advice??
aven mindcensor, Terravore, 3rd quasali pridemage, and 3rd ooze are all cards that are generally considered flexible. Terravore being the likely choice of replacement since he is JUST a finisher.
IF it is as you claim with your field being 50%-60% graveyard decks, You could also look into loaming shaman since ooze wont do enough once they get a few dredges on ya and its a nice way to reset. crop rotation is also pretty decent vs both of them :D
Tower aint bad, but I would value it less than maze in usefulness.
As a sidenote, when Did the 3noble/1bop split fall out of favor. The mirror is all about evasion (moms or not), and that little guy has won me many a game. IT'S also a nice way to pay for pacts, (i have totally metamorphed my own bop vs hivemind before)
Crop Rotation is something I've been wanting to try out. It improves the use of Bog and Cradle in conjunction with Ooze against graveyard decks. It's pretty fun to blow people out when they don't expect you to activate "Knight" out of nowhere.
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* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
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Anyone considered that Cavern of Soul might have a home in maverick? Important humans Knight of the Reliquary, Mother of Runes, Thalia, Noble Hierarch and Loyal Retainers. And can still be used for colorless mana for your GSZ.
It was discussed a few pages back and the consensus believes that if it is even played at all it would just be a one of in the deck. This is because it adds another wastelandable card to the mana base, it doesn't provide green or white mana to all of the non-human cards in the deck (Green Sun, Swords, etc), it can not be sac'd to a Knight, and most of the time you shouldn't really care if they are countering your spells as the next turn you should be able to land another threat.
A one-of seems pretty pointless since if you land a KotR to fetch it, they are likely spent on counters anyways. If anything, I could see potentially dropping Horizon Canopy, etc to try to squeeze it in as a 3-of. That way you'd at least see it early enough to make it relevant. Cutting Forests/Plains is troublesome because you need to feed them to KotR. Like most people are saying though, I'm not sure the deck needs a lot of help against counters.
Question for Fade: In your sideboard plans, you're taking out 2 Thalias in some of them, but your list only lists 1 Thalia. What did you cut for the second one?
When I wrote that I actually had cut the Sylvan Library. I guess I had not noticed it when I looked at the list. Right now I'm running 61 cards which is that list including the Thalia. I'm trying to see which card needs to be cut and right now it looks like it could be the Elspeth, Terravore, or Aven Mindcensor. But it's too hard to decide right now and since I'm playing the list locally I don't find myself needing to rush to a conclusion.
My reason for the one of was because I really only care about resolving Mother of runes and Loyal Retainers. Anything else can be GSZ for. Having the one of would allow me to fetch it up with Knight and play the Loyal Retainers without it getting countered. I wouldn't dilute the mana base with running cavern as a 3 of due to the other spells in the deck that you want to cast in the early game.
Questions to those who want to use cavern of souls.
Do you really care if people counter your creatures? Maverick is made to beat blue decks. The power of it is to power through the counters with amazing top decks each turn.
Why make ur lands more vulnerable?
How does it break mirror ? With wastelands all around ?
What lyracian said is true. But even dropping it down on your turn when there is a stalemate on board is devastating. Giving any flyer just one +1/+1 activation is a significant clock when you also have exalted triggers. It could also be the crucial +1/+1 to Knight that allows you to swing in for the win with the help of Mother of Runes.
Having the card in your deck doesn't make you automatically win the match up but it is nice when all of your normal guys are bigger than your opponents. At that point, the only thing your opponent could have is a bigger Knight or Terravore and if they don't answer the Township with a wasteland your creatures will continue to become bigger and bigger threats.
I'm not convinced. The mirror all comes down to connecting with Umezawa's Jitte so you can disable opposing Mother of Runes. Other highly relevant cards are Maze of Ith, Aven Mindcensor and - if you run the Fauna Shaman Engine - Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Also, having more Knights usually helps a lot. Having the 2nd Umezawa's Jitte in your deck essential.
Don't get me wrong. I like people trying to eventually "break" the mirror "open" in a sense, that skill won't just matter up to a certain point. However, giving "the crucial +1/+1 to Knight that allows you to swing in for the win" isn't even the so-called "danger of cool things", it's just not worth it.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
I think you are taking what I posted out of context. I said it breaks the mirror if the game goes long. When you get to that point where both decks are top decking, if you have a Gavony out and your opponent doesn't then you are probably going to win the game. I also said it could give Knight the crucial +1/+1. Does it always happen ... of course not but has it happened, yes.
People play the mirror match up differently. I for one tend not to rely on equipment as one can just tutor up a pridemage or play one of their own Jittes. If it comes up I will play it to my advantage but I'm not going to feel safe just because I connected once with a Jitte. Swordings Mother/Knight is quite possibly the best thing you could do. Flyers do matter in the mirror even if it is just a Scryb ranger and what's nice about the Gavony is it will pump your flyer to make a faster clock.
I'm not saying Gavony is made for the deck. In fact, it's only in there for the games that go long. But all I'm trying to put out there is Gavony might deserve the 22nd land slot instead of a second Canopy or instead of a Cavern of Souls for those who are considering that option.
From my experience, the mirror comes down to one of three scenarios:
A) One player has put the opponent into mana screw; either by luck or by Wasteland. That player cannot develop his board. This player has lost "initiative".
B) One player has an active Mother of Runes and is able to ignore any advancement in board position. This player has gained "initiative".
C) Both players are attempting to maintain good board position and keep a Mother of Runes active. No player has "initiative".
(A) tends to happen quite frequently from my experience. It only takes 1 missed land drop to fall behind.
The cards that truly matter in the mirror are Mother of Runes and <Walking-Abyss or evasive creature>. The latter is merely a way to close the game. All cards being suggested to "break the mirror" are merely derivatives of these two goals.
Example:
Gideon Jura causes a player to lose initiative.
Linvala forces a player to lose initiative.
Maze of Ith controls evasive breakthroughs.
Parallax Wave causes a player to lose initiative and simultaneously gain it yourself. (double whammy)
Elesh Norn causes a player to lose initiative and simultaneously gain "evasion".
Gut Shot allows a player to shut off Mother of Runes before initiative is gained.
Connecting with Jitte allows a player to regain initiative.
etc
It still comes down to whoever can control Mother of Runes active.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Yes, initiative and having an active Mother of Runes is very important.
Also, Aven Mindcensor can make a hughe difference.
In my experience, winning game one is VERY important. The winner of game one can defend and stall the match out until time and a 1-0-1 result.
If you expect a lot of mirror matches, you should include 3 Aven Mindcensors in the main deck + the proper equipment package (so you will probably win game one), and things that stop your opponent from having initiative in the sideboard, like Gut Shots and perhaps Gideon Jura or so.
Last tourney I played with Mav I expected little mirrors, but had to play two. One I won because I had more experience playing the deck, and the other I lost because he had Mindcensors and I didn't, which really messed up my game plan. Even Elspeth couldn't rescue me in that one...
These may be the most common situations in the mirror but the game is dependent on every decision you make and what cards you actually play. I for one have never lost a mirror match after resolving a Sylvan Library, it just finds everything you need most of the time.
Having a Mother of Runes when your opponent has a beater with flying is also problematic. You either have to swords it, find Maze of Ith, or get a flyer of your own out.
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